RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted March 26, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 26, 2016 Not a definitive answer, but we know that Southern Region began painting coaches green from 1956. By that time, Maunsell coaches were getting a bit elderly, were less used on key services, and so would not have been first in the queue. Many had only a few years of service left, with completion of Kent Coast Electrification in the very early '60s substantially reducing the loco-hauled service requirement on SR. I think the S suffix appeared in the early '50s, so certainly most blood and custard coaches would have received it. After all, as said before, re-varnishing of Southern Railway malachite meant some coaches were only actually repainted well after Nationalisation, and a minority never saw B&C at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted March 26, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 26, 2016 (edited) Hi Thanks for taking on and explaining this subject--as an N Gauge modeller it makes things SR a bit more understandable-- but I would like to ask a question re post 32 "but post nationalisation you could certainly see mixed rakes of blood and custard with BR green."1) would the Blood & Custard Stock had "S" suffix after running numbers??? and 2)How long/late did Blood and Custard last before repaint to SR Green??? MTIA Chris The S suffix was normal on crimson/cream stock though I wouldn't guarantee it was never omitted in error. Not sure if your query relates to the early fifties when Crimson/cream was coming in as well as the late fifties when it was on the way out. If the latter, my notes are not immediately to hand but IIRC all Maunsell and Bulleid Stock was back in green by the end of 1959 followed fairly rapidly by the BR Mk1 stock allocated to the Southern Region. I think two 3-sets of that remained in crimson/cream until early/mid 1962. John Edited March 27, 2016 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardS Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Having been confined to 'the sick bay' for the last few days I've taken the opportunity to watch some 'budget' videos I have had for some time but never before looked at.(Not that sort!) If you ignore the locomotive orientated nasal infused commentaries they were quite illuminating. Also for my own purposes I have been studying coach formations in my collection of books about the NCR and B&W. Two things are evident as in all things model railways - assume nothing and best avoid generalisations. And this applies to colours and formations - the more you look the more you find. Some examples. Firstly as we all know the GWR/WR used B Sets on the Bodmin Road to Wadebridge service. But on an unspecified date in 1959 when the film was shot the set was half a B set (W6725W?) and "a something else." In another clip of the same trip- and bearing in mind that the general colour rendition of the film was, shall we say, somewhat unsophisticated - there is a rake of three Maunsells at Wadebridge (TO and P set)in quite different shades of green. The TO appears to be a blue green and faded while the P set is a shiny deep green. I wonder if the latter is freshly re-varnished SR Green - although the colour in the film is reminiscent of that which Bachmann have applied to more recent BR Mk1s - a slightly 'conifer green' (a scientific description I assure you!) What I'm trying to say in response to Chris Newman's original question is that if you are in search of accuracy and fidelity then three words apply: research, research, research. Although at some point you must stop, obviously, lest you disappear up the back of your own beyond. But whether that is early, based upon the general 'word of the day', or later, after detailed personal investigation doesn't matter provided you are happy. Regards Richard 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardS Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Oh and a footnote - don't forget that on rolling stock transferred to the Western Region some were renumbered 'WxxxxS' not sure when this was though. Someone on here will know. :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisman56 Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 (edited) That would be when the lines west of Wilton were transferred to the WR in 1962 - there were various Maunsell sets ('2' sets 22-29 and 100-110) and some loose stock vehicles (mostly Maunsell BCKs) that were transferred along with the lines they ran on. Edited March 26, 2016 by talisman56 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris newman Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Hi guys many thanks for the answers given, they explain a lot, but also give creedance to the old saying "there's a prototype for everything", however I was always under the impression that boundary changes happened earlier (late 40's early 50's),so this leads me to ask my next questions-- (probably opening Pandora's box/can of worms)---1)when did the boundary change take place between BR(W)& BR(S)----2)did buildings etc just get a new coat of paint in appropriate regional colours??--3)did BR(w) put a lower Quadrant signal on an LSWR signal post etc etc?? thanks in advance for your time and effort in answering my tiresome questions--but as Richard s Said "Reasearch,research, research" MTIA Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris newman Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Higuys One question I forgot as son as I reread my post---is there an online source for finding out stock transfers between regions etc??? Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted March 27, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 27, 2016 No easier research than buying books! Irwell Press have a series called Mainline To The West, which covers sections of the line between Blazingsmoke and Exeter. I suspect these might answer some of your questions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted March 27, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 27, 2016 Hi guys many thanks for the answers given, they explain a lot, but also give creedance to the old saying "there's a prototype for everything", however I was always under the impression that boundary changes happened earlier (late 40's early 50's),so this leads me to ask my next questions-- (probably opening Pandora's box/can of worms)---1)when did the boundary change take place between BR(W)& BR(S)----2)did buildings etc just get a new coat of paint in appropriate regional colours??--3)did BR(w) put a lower Quadrant signal on an LSWR signal post etc etc?? thanks in advance for your time and effort in answering my tiresome questions--but as Richard s Said "Reasearch,research, research" MTIA Chris 1. 1st January 1963. 2. Some did, some didn't, refer to photographs of your chosen location. In some places, closure beat them to it and in others, BR "corporate" might have arrived before they got round to it. 3. LSWR signals were lower quadrant though some were altered to upper quadrant by the SR and BR Southern region, I'm not aware of any widespread use of GWR material before the singling in 1967 when colour light signals mounted on GWR round posts appeared, some of which survived until the 2012 re-control. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 (edited) The Commercial and Civil Engineering (including S&T) functions, but not the operating function, of the former Southern Railway Exeter Division were transferred to Western Region control in April 1950, reverting to the Southern Region in 1958. The most obvious result of this was the application of the WR brown and cream colour painting schemes to a number of former SR stations in the west country. The Exeter Engineer's District tended to continue as much the same independent fiefdom as it had done when nominally under SR control and so there was little evidence of WR influence in engineering and S&T matters during this period (although drawing titles and numbers were altered to fit the WR way of doing things, only to change again in both 1958 and 1963/4). Edited March 28, 2016 by bécasse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris newman Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 Hi Guys Thanks for your time in answering questions, lot of useful/informative stuff there!! "Olddudders" many thanks for listing the books series, will research availability for purchase, asap. That just leaves source of reallocation of Bullied/Maunsell stock to find so very nearly done!! Again thanks for your time and effort!! Regds Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisman56 Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) For those of us modelling in 'N'... Just spotted on the Dapol website, 'In Stock Now' page.New release of Maunsell lined Olive Green coaches [with set/usage info where applicable].2P-012-003 Maunsell Coach First Maunsell Lined Green 7668 [Newhaven boat train stock]2P-012-004 Maunsell Coach First Maunsell Lined Green 7670 [Newhaven boat train stock]2P-012-053 Maunsell Coach Brake 3rd Maunsell Lined Green 4049 [set 469]2P-012-054 Maunsell Coach Brake 3rd Maunsell Lined Green 4048 [set 469]2P-012-102 Maunsell Coach 3rd Maunsell Lined Green 2353 [Newhaven boat train stock]2P-012-103 Maunsell Coach 3rd Maunsell Lined Green 780 [Did not exist - 780 was a Maunsell 'Continental' TK]2P-012-153 Maunsell Coach Composite Maunsell Lined Green 5139 [3P-set 391]2P-012-154 Maunsell Coach Composite Maunsell Lined Green 4150 - typo; should be 5140 [3P-set 396]2P-012-202 Maunsell Coach Brake Van Maunsell Lined Green 7002P-012-203 Maunsell Coach Brake Van Maunsell Lined Green 4222P-012-252 Maunsell 6 Coach Set Maunsell Lined GreenI have enquired of Dapol what set/coach types and numbers comprise the -252 set.Still no further news on the availability of the 4-compartment BTKs (that go with the Composites) and 6-compartment BCKs.The NC040B Yellow Light Bars which are appropriate for these coaches are back in stock, apparently. Edited April 23, 2016 by talisman56 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernboy Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) Hello Talisman, I'd broadly clocked the news elsewhere and assumed this was a re-release of the previous run of Maunsell lined-green carriages, so didn't take much notice as I already have them. But now, from what I can see from your post, these are different Dapol references and coach numbers to the original production run, suggesting they're additional to what I already have. So my question: Have I read this right and these are all-new coaches/numbers? (Just don't want to buy more stock and then kick myself later for mis-reading a post! ) Edited April 13, 2016 by Southernboy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisman56 Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Yes, these are the same livery coaches as the initial release, but with new identities. But, 2P-012-054 duplicates the brake coach in the 2P-012-251 4-coach set in the original series - not easy to avoid when there were only four vehicles in the prototype batch. Alternatively they could have produced a BSK to go with the other Newhaven boat train vehicles, the diagram was different but the actual vehicles were identical to the BTKs, just a case of putting 'Second' on the doors... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernboy Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) Thankyou Talisman, So all but 2P-012-054 are new/different carriage numbers. Wow, what a dilemma. To invest now for possible future outcomes (the bigger / better layout / with room for loads of stock / we all dream of in the future). Or to dispell in advance idle dreams that have costly implications? I guess there's a third option: In the knowledge that these are limited runs, buy them anyway, and in the event the dream layout never happens, sell them at a reasonable price as they'll be an in-demand item on the second-hand market? ... that's a stream of consciousness by the way Edited April 13, 2016 by Southernboy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 ... that's a stream of consciousness by the way Aren't we all? I guess it comes down to budget. If things are tight, then only buy what you need. There is always eBay to pick things up 2nd hand if you space/budget increases later. On the other hand, if you have not had much to splash the cash on lately, there is no harm in a little speculative purchasing. Personally I have forthcoming Farish Castle, 6400 and autocoach in my sights so I will not be purchasing any further Maunsells just yet. However when the BCK finally puts in an appearance, I will be getting a BR green one so that I can run an approximation of a 2-car P-set. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisman56 Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 (edited) OK, according to Kernow the -252 set of Dapol Maunsells comprises the formation of set 469 for the years 1933-44: BTK 4048-TK 2351-TK 2350-FK 7665-TK 2349-BTK 4049, but how long the lining lasted I have no idea... 4048/2350/7665 duplicate coaches that were included in the -251 set in the first tranche, and 4048/4049 duplicate the ones available separately as cat nos ending -053/-054. The set number is not painted on the ends of the brakes. More worryingly, the -103 TK is a non-runner as 780 was a Maunsell 'Continental' 7-and-a-half compartment TK, part of the final batch of 'Conti's sneaked in between the two batches of Maunsell standard 'loose' coaches in 1927. This was the reason for the gap in the number series in the entry for the TKs in my Maunsells post: **Diagram 2001 eight-compartment Third: numbers 769-778 (built Eastleigh 7/27-8/27), 783-832 (Eastleigh/BRCW/Metropolitan 3/28-7/28), 2349-55 (Ashford/Eastleigh 12/26-6/27). 802 was damaged by fire 7/35, a new body to D.2008 was built 7/36 on its underframe. 60 other numbers to chose from and Dapol chose one which isn't... Edited April 23, 2016 by talisman56 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisman56 Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 (edited) Not seen this mentioned here, but I was trawling through the Rails (of Sheffield) Dapol Coach pages and spotted these new additions available for pre-order:2P-012-303 SR Maunsell Corridor 1st S7208S BR(S) Green [loose]2P-012-304 SR Maunsell Corridor 1st S7367S BR(S) Green [incorrect number - 7367 was a 'Continental' 1st]2P-012-353 SR Maunsell Corridor Brake 2nd S4050S BR(S) Green [set 470]2P-012-354 SR Maunsell Corridor Brake 2nd S4482S BR(S) Green [incorrect number - 4482 was a Boat train 2nd in SR days, renumbered 2773 in 1954 when downgraded to 3rd]2P-012-402 SR Maunsell Corridor 2nd S810S BR(S) Green [loose]2P-012-403 SR Maunsell Corridor 2nd S823S BR(S) Green [loose]2P-012-453 SR Maunsell Corridor Composite S5150S BR(S) Green [set 448]2P-012-454 SR Maunsell Corridor Composite S5149S BR(S) Green [set 447]2P-012-503 SR PMY Brake Van S750S BR(S) Green2P-012-504 SR PMY Brake Van S766S BR(S) GreenLooks like a new batch of BR(S) Green liveried Maunsells are imminent. New batch, same old mistakes... Edited July 20, 2016 by talisman56 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisman56 Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 (edited) The Dapol Digest forum has a post regarding N Gauge Maunsells in Crimson and Cream livery, 1st decorated samples pictured. Another post officially announces the 4-compartment Brake Third (BTK) and 6-compartment Brake Composite (BCK) coaches which complement the current four types of coach. The 4-cpt BTK will go with the existing Corridor Composites to form 3-sets 'P' (numbered 390-399/445-448). There is also a proposal to produce a (or more) examples of a ready made set (2x 4-cpt BTK and a CK). The BCKs were allocated to the 'Atlantic Coast Express' in their early days - all that is then needed is the LSWR Panelled Corridor sets to create a late-1920s 'ACE' in miniature... Edited June 18, 2016 by talisman56 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 With regards to Set 201, SEMG has the set listed as BSK-SK-SK-FK-SO-SK-SK-BSK. However, the site doesn't list whether the BSK's are 4-compartment or 6-compartment. Would someone be able to advise as to which design Set 201 used. Regards, Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted July 21, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 21, 2016 With regards to Set 201, SEMG has the set listed as BSK-SK-SK-FK-SO-SK-SK-BSK. However, the site doesn't list whether the BSK's are 4-compartment or 6-compartment. Would someone be able to advise as to which design Set 201 used. Regards, Matt 3730/1, which were 6-compartment vehicles. The 4-compartment vehicles were very much in the minority. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 3730/1, which were 6-compartment vehicles. The 4-compartment vehicles were very much in the minority. In which case, have Hornby got it wrong? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-R4349B-BR-Maunsell-Compartment-Brake-3rd-Class-Coach-S-3731-S-/331890087139?hash=item4d4630d4e3:g:vPQAAOSwMmBVv4P0 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted July 21, 2016 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 21, 2016 3730/1, which were 6-compartment vehicles. The 4-compartment vehicles were very much in the minority. I think the 4comp / 6comp confusion with set 201 was discussed here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/6283-maunsell-carriage-set-numbers/&do=findComment&comment=65905 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisman56 Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) According to my Gould, Third edition 2000, set 201 was originally formed BTK 3730-CK 5635-BTK 3731. The BTKs were part of order 488, which comprised TO 1398-1400, 3rd Brakes 3728-3731 and 6-compartment 3733, CK 5635, BCK 6674, FK 7676 and Dining Saloon 7958 (my emphasis). The distinction between 3728-3731 and 3733 implies that 3728-3731 were 4-compartment brakes, and the placing of set 201 in the same workings as low-window 3-sets 390-399/445-448, which also had 4-compartment brakes, seals the deal. King also gives 3730/3731 as 4-compartment brakes... Edited July 21, 2016 by talisman56 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisman56 Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 In which case, have Hornby got it wrong? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-R4349B-BR-Maunsell-Compartment-Brake-3rd-Class-Coach-S-3731-S-/331890087139?hash=item4d4630d4e3:g:vPQAAOSwMmBVv4P0 No - see my above post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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