Henley-on-Thames - GWR in the 1930's

[Tallpaul69]

 

15 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Good stuff Paul, thanks. Anything from (much) further West?

Glad you liked it!

The furthest west I have any loco working docs is from Exeter.

I will have a look at that and see if there is anything on the Cornwall side. 

 

Best regards

Paul

[Tallpaul69]

6 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

Truly fascinating Paul thank you. 
 

Can I be cheeky and ask you post post a photo of one of the pages.... in our modern world of units, it’s fascinating to see these turns being listed. 
 

Plus as you say, one crew have their loco prepared for them and another has to do it themselves. I doubt they would have thought anything of it though.

 

Thanks for the details.

Glad it was of interest!

No problem, I will post photos of the two pages that relate to the Henley trains in a day or two.

 

Bye the Bye, I have tracked down my source for this sort of documents.

I was wrong in that I did find these guys on 'Bay:-

JTPend1

He has a wide range of documentation, not all of interest to RMWeb readers, and there are some 25 pages of listings at 50 items a page! Mostly copies rather than original documents, but these are c half the price of original documents (where he offers both copy and original).

He still has the copies of the OOC engine diagrams that I quoted from.

(no connection except as a satisfied customer!)

 

wttreprints

This chap has a more limited range than JTPend1, but it is all WTT related.

I have not actually used him, but might do in the near future.

 

Hope this info is of use ?

 

Best regards

Paul

[TrevorP1]

2 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

Glad it was of interest!

No problem, I will post photos of the two pages that relate to the Henley trains in a day or two.

 

Bye the Bye, I have tracked down my source for this sort of documents.

I was wrong in that I did find these guys on 'Bay:-

JTPend1

He has a wide range of documentation, not all of interest to RMWeb readers, and there are some 25 pages of listings at 50 items a page! Mostly copies rather than original documents, but these are c half the price of original documents (where he offers both copy and original).

He still has the copies of the OOC engine diagrams that I quoted from.

(no connection except as a satisfied customer!)

 

wttreprints

This chap has a more limited range than JTPend1, but it is all WTT related.

I have not actually used him, but might do in the near future.

 

Hope this info is of use ?

 

Best regards

Paul

 

Thanks for the tip Paul.

 

I've just purchased a document relating to the working of potato traffic in Cornwall from wttreprints. The other chap has documents on Laira loco working but it's incomplete. Worth keeping an eye on though!

[Neal Ball]

Meanwhile back in the environs on Henley...

 

Ive laid the laminate floor in the rooftop conservatory..... whereupon we escaped to Alicante for a few days...

 

Due to lockdown etc. This was the first time we have been away since December last year when we went to Madrid. Alicante is almost on our doorstep, being just over an hour away and we have always wanted to go for a few days...

 

Its a lovely City and at the moment deserves a visit:

[Neal Ball]

Today was a railway day.
 

Firstly, my passengers arrived x200 seated people...

 

This one pack:

 

 

This is Big Bob is closeup 

 

 

Instead of sending OO / HO As described, they have sent giants!

 

Thanks eBay.

 

It seems though that everyone in the UK has run out of Prieser HObseated passengers. Hopefully they haven’t all got COVID-19 

[Neal Ball]

I then turned my brush to some Modelu people and gave them all a coat of undercoat.

 

Then I decided to renumber a Bachmann Pannier 0-6-0PT 5775 to 4661 at the same time I am going to back date without top feeds....

 

 

I going carried away....  the loco will now heave:

• New number: 4661 was one of the Henley based Pannier tanks.
• Great Western instead of GWR insignia.
• Top feed and pipework removed.

This will be one of the dedicated locos for the branch line service.

[BWsTrains]

1 hour ago, Neal Ball said:

I then turned my brush to some Modelu people and gave them all a coat of undercoat.

 

Then I decided to renumber a Bachmann Pannier 0-6-0PT 5775 to 4661 at the same time I am going to back date without top feeds....

 

 

I going carried away....  the loco will now heave:

• New number: 4661 was one of the Henley based Pannier tanks.
• Great Western instead of GWR insignia.
• Top feed and pipework removed.

This will be one of the dedicated locos for the branch line service.

 

Neal,

 

No 4661 was built in Oct 1943 so would have received the GWR insignia at build or more likely a simple wartime black. https://tinyurl.com/y4lra4y5

 

While this was before the introduction of the topfeed, 4661 was from Sub-Class 8750 with significant Cab and other modifications of so the earlier 5775 is not a good starting point.

 

You may find these links to be of interest:

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/nopanniers.html

http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/060_4600det.htm

 

and perhaps for an earlier build to suit your shed - here or among one of the other early Class 5700 builds

http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/m_in_060_5700.htm

 

 

Colin

 

Edited October 21, 2020 by BWsTrains
addition

[Neal Ball]

6 hours ago, BWsTrains said:

 

Neal,

 

No 4661 was built in Oct 1943 so would have received the GWR insignia at build or more likely a simple wartime black. https://tinyurl.com/y4lra4y5

 

While this was before the introduction of the topfeed, 4661 was from Sub-Class 8750 with significant Cab and other modifications of so the earlier 5775 is not a good starting point.

 

You may find these links to be of interest:

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/nopanniers.html

http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/060_4600det.htm

 

and perhaps for an earlier build to suit your shed - here or among one of the other early Class 5700 builds

http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/m_in_060_5700.htm

 

 

Colin

 

Thanks Colin,

Guess I need to change my number then..... I took that number as it was a regular performer on the line.... clearly not in my time frame! Back to the drawing board. I should have cross checked first....

 

Thanks for the information, 
 

The work will continue later today to remove the top feed etc. Just need to get another number.

[dougidle]

10 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

I then turned my brush to some Modelu people and gave them all a coat of undercoat.

 

Then I decided to renumber a Bachmann Pannier 0-6-0PT 5775 to 4661 at the same time I am going to back date without top feeds....

 

 

I going carried away....  the loco will now heave:

• New number: 4661 was one of the Henley based Pannier tanks.
• Great Western instead of GWR insignia.
• Top feed and pipework removed.

This will be one of the dedicated locos for the branch line service.

By a strange coincidence I've started a project to convert my 5775 to 4660! 

[Neal Ball]

33 minutes ago, dougidle said:

By a strange coincidence I've started a project to convert my 5775 to 4660! 

 

Good luck will it be in EM or O?

 

I would love to have a Pannier or 48xx with an Autocoach in O running around the garden.

[Neal Ball]

Looking at the Pannier papers for the 57xx series, I have found that 5735 was shedded at Reading from 1932 and 5737 was shedded at Southall also from 1932.

 

Both plates are available from Fox transfers, so an order is going to be placed.

 

Work progresses today on the backdating of the loco.... I also have a collection of Modelu figures nicely dried in black x10 that will start getting further coats to bring them to life.
 

This includes crew for the new 61xx and at least one of the 57xx.

 

Have a good day, Neal.

[Neal Ball]

It’s been a productive day in the railway room - in part because it’s been raining here all day.

 

57xx has been sanded to an inch of it’s life and the hole where the top feed was has been filled. I’m leaving it overnight before sanding it down and hopefully getting a coat of paint on tomorrow. I intend to spray it, which will be the first loco I would have sprayed. It will then have its new number applied and for this loco it will have 1920’s Great Western insignia.

 

Platform sign: I ordered these from Scale Model Scenery and they arrived here in Spain very quickly. At this stage I have cut everything out and just placed it into the frame. The letters need a bit of work, then I will put them onto a roll of sellotape to paint the edges.

The instructions say the sign will make up into 14 characters including spaces.... Henley is 16 and I think it works ok..... although I could add 5 or 10 mm but I think it’s ok.

 

Pub signs: I’ve also been working up the pub signs from Scale model scenery and these will be shown soon.

 

Figures: I still need more loco crew! Although the idea was to put them into both 61xx, they are too good to hide in the cab! I will add them into a tender loco and get more of a mix of poses for the remaining locos.
 

 

 

 

 

 

[Neal Ball]

On 21/10/2020 at 23:09, Neal Ball said:

Today was a railway day.
 

Firstly, my passengers arrived x200 seated people...

 

This one pack:

 

 

This is Big Bob is closeup 

 

 

Instead of sending OO / HO As described, they have sent giants!

 

Thanks eBay.

 

It seems though that everyone in the UK has run out of Prieser HObseated passengers. Hopefully they haven’t all got COVID-19 

eBay update!

 

My messages to this seller have so far been ignored.... I’ve used the “contact us” option and also the “request a refund” option.

 

Apparently if nothing happens by 28th eBay will intervene.

 

I will need to get a box of the Prieser figures and paint them myself.... but the postage for such a small item seems to be expensive (eBay) or out of stock elsewhere (Gaugemaster)....

 

But in better news, thanks to @Tallpaul69i have a 1941 GWR platform poster winging its way to me. Slightly outside my 1930’s remit, but I looks like a good find on eBay. I was looking for WTT and loco schedules - didn’t see any of interest - but am looking forward to framing this poster.

[Harlequin]

Remember the GWR called it a "Service Time Table", STT, not a WTT and that continued even in BR(WR) times.

That might affect your searches.

 

[dougidle]

23 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

 

Good luck will it be in EM or O?

 

I would love to have a Pannier or 48xx with an Autocoach in O running around the garden.

 

It'l be in EM. I'll be following your build as I don't think I'll get much done on mine until coming up to Christmas.

 

I have a 57xx and 48xx in O gauge for the garden but no Autocoach yet :-(

[Neal Ball]

3 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Remember the GWR called it a "Service Time Table", STT, not a WTT and that continued even in BR(WR) times.

That might affect your searches.

 

 

Of course, thanks Phil

[Neal Ball]

Does anyone know if the coal load can be removed in the Bachmann GWR Pannier tank?

 

Thanks

 

What do the two screws here retain?

 

The loco is getting ready to be painted - hopefully tomorrow.

 

 

[Neal Ball]

I’ve finally been able to get in the railway room - where does the time go?

 

The Pannier tank was masked up and later sprayed. It’s currently drying.....

 

I also carried on with one of the running in boards and that is now all fixed together and drying. There is still a bit more to do on this before it’s complete, including painting the supports etc. Whereupon it will replace the current ones.

 

 

Recently I have also been looking at the timetable again. So far, I have added a morning Parcels service; an afternoon freight and a morning Regatta special. I’ve yet to work out the new fiddle yard instructions and think I will only be able to do that when I am trying out the schedule.

 

TBC!

 

 

[Darwinian]

You've done a neat job on getting rid of the topfeed pipework. 

I notice that you have left the injector overflow pipe running across the footplate and valance. I'm not sure when this route was introduced but have a feeling it was a BR era thing. Originally the pipe went through the footplate and behind the valance until just ahead of the cab step. It's not that difficult to remove it if it wasn't like that in your period.

 

I should add that I have done a topfeed less 57xx from the Replica Railways body shell in 1929 condition.

[Neal Ball]

8 hours ago, Darwinian said:

You've done a neat job on getting rid of the topfeed pipework. 

I notice that you have left the injector overflow pipe running across the footplate and valance. I'm not sure when this route was introduced but have a feeling it was a BR era thing. Originally the pipe went through the footplate and behind the valance until just ahead of the cab step. It's not that difficult to remove it if it wasn't like that in your period.

 

I should add that I have done a topfeed less 57xx from the Replica Railways body shell in 1929 condition.

Thanks for that. 
Overall I’ve been quite pleased with how it’s gone. I wasn’t sure about the overflow pipe do left it.

 

Depending on my painting, I might revisit it.

 

Thanks again.

[Darwinian]

I have just looked through my 2012 “GWR pannier now a 57xx” thread in “kit building and scratchbuilding” to refresh my memory.

Assuming the Bachmann  body is basically the same your two mystery screws hold the bunker weight block. This includes the cab back detail up to the toolboxes.

The “coal” is moulded as part of the bunker which clips over this weight. I chain drilled around the edges with a small drill bit and cleaned up afterwards with files / scalpel blade. I cannot remember if the bunker is part of the cab moulding or separate. 

 

Hope this is helpful.

There is also a Modelu workbench blog including his upgrade of a 57xx but I can’t get the hang of blogs.

[Neal Ball]

2 hours ago, Darwinian said:

I have just looked through my 2012 “GWR pannier now a 57xx” thread in “kit building and scratchbuilding” to refresh my memory.

Assuming the Bachmann  body is basically the same your two mystery screws hold the bunker weight block. This includes the cab back detail up to the toolboxes.

The “coal” is moulded as part of the bunker which clips over this weight. I chain drilled around the edges with a small drill bit and cleaned up afterwards with files / scalpel blade. I cannot remember if the bunker is part of the cab moulding or separate. 

 

Hope this is helpful.

There is also a Modelu workbench blog including his upgrade of a 57xx but I can’t get the hang of blogs.

 

Thanks very much for this. I gave up in the end.

 

Having undone the crews, nothing seemed to want to move - the bunker moulding seems to be separate to the cab, but wasn't going to give in. 

 

In the end, I cut out a section of the moulded coal detail and left it at that.

 

I have just been to look at the spraying efforts.... Its not the best you will see on RMWeb and I need to evaluate whether it's worth starting again. As a first attempt its not bad - I need to learn from it :-)

 

On the other hand the first Henley running in board looks great!

 

Tbc as ever.

[Tallpaul69]

17 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

Recently I have also been looking at the timetable again. So far, I have added a morning Parcels service; an afternoon freight and a morning Regatta special. I’ve yet to work out the new fiddle yard instructions and think I will only be able to do that when I am trying out the schedule.

Oops!

Sorry Neal, forgot completely about your photos of the pages!

Won't have chance to do it today, but it's on the job list for tomorrow.

Best regards

Paul

[Neal Ball]

2 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

Oops!

Sorry Neal, forgot completely about your photos of the pages!

Won't have chance to do it today, but it's on the job list for tomorrow.

Best regards

Paul

 

Thanks Paul, no worries.

 

[Tallpaul69]

22 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

 

Thanks Paul, no worries.

 

Here, finally, are a couple of photos of original documents:-

 

 

Here is the sheet for Old Oak Common Turn 44 which alternated with Worcester Turn 10, bringing a Worcester engine to Henley on alternate evenings. Due to its small distribution this is a duplicated sheet, the sheets just pinned together!

 

 

Here is the working diagrams for the Henley coaching sets. Excuse the pencil marks, which I am guilty of!

This being a document needing a wider distribution than the above engine diagram is a properly printed book!

 

An interesting glimpse of the organisation behind 50s/60s railway operation. Mind you this had not changed since the beginning of the century, and carried on for many more years!

 

Best regards

Paul