Henley-on-Thames - GWR in the 1930's

[Harlequin]

It might be possible to draw the radial brickwork in the computer, then print it out Scalescenes-style, stick it to card, scribe it for texture and stick whole sections down...???

 

[Neal Ball]

3 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

How about cutting bricks into strips and curving each strip, youmayneed to start laying the next strip from the centre of the previous one to keep the "bonding".  only  a suggestion, I have no practical experience.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Harlequin said:

It might be possible to draw the radial brickwork in the computer, then print it out Scalescenes-style, stick it to card, scribe it for texture and stick whole sections down...???

 

Thank you both, yes that certainly would be a way to do it….

 

I think the computer option would be better… draw out a circle and add another…

 

On that basis, I need to get engineers blue bricks from scalescenes and then curve them to shape. Not sure how I will fo that in Afinity - I might need to call on an afinity expert - perhaps @KNP has experience of bending bricks into a curve. Any suggestions Kevin? Thanks.

[Graham T]

Scalescenes do brick arches as window cappings.  If they have one of the correct radius you could copy and paste those perhaps?

[The Stationmaster]

On 27/08/2021 at 17:33, Neal Ball said:

 

Thanks Mike. Do you mean the brickwork as per the engineers bricks round the edge, together with the footholds for pushing the table?

 

As per Minehead?

 

 

 

It would certainly be nice, but the engineers bricks follow the curve of the table, so not sue how I will manage that.... Suggestions welcome.

No. although I think there was some - but not much, brickwork round the table.  The two radial stabling roads beyond the table had pits (preparation pit depth, not deep like ash pits) and the area between those roads was bricked over plus an area along the other side of both of them.  The picture in Paul's book unfortunately doesn't show that side of the table. 

[Neal Ball]

31 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

No. although I think there was some - but not much, brickwork round the table.  The two radial stabling roads beyond the table had pits (preparation pit depth, not deep like ash pits) and the area between those roads was bricked over plus an area along the other side of both of them.  The picture in Paul's book unfortunately doesn't show that side of the table. 

 

Thats interesting Mike thank you.

 

I always thought I had the roads too "Natural" rather than "Industrial" if that makes sense.

 

That certainly is food for thought to add a brick in-fill between the two roads. Maybe I could also add a coaling facility alongside and something similar by the engine shed.

 

I noticed today in one of the aerial photos there was something about those roads. I shall switch it round though and have it against the longer roads.

 

Thanks for this, Regards, Neal.

[Neal Ball]

Programming the roads:

 

Busy day today - I haven't glued the tracks down yet, I want to get it all wired up and the turntable programmed before I commit to the tracks staying put!

 

In this photo, both of these roads are live and have also been programmed for the Bridge to deliver the loco.

 

To be continued.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Neal Ball
photo changed

[The Stationmaster]

On 28/08/2021 at 18:28, Neal Ball said:

Programming the roads:

 

Busy day today - I haven't glued the tracks down yet, I want to get it all wired up and the turntable programmed before I commit to the tracks staying put!

 

In this photo, both of these roads are live and have also been programmed for the Bridge to deliver the loco.

 

 

To be continued.

I take it that these are the two roads you have added Neal - they don't seem to appear on any drawings that I'c ve cme across but do they show up on any aerial photos? 

 

By the way coaling seems to have been done direct from a wagon in layyter years and that might always have been the case although I have long wondered about the boarded-in area on the water tower and quite why it was like that?

[Neal Ball]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

I take it that these are the two roads you have added Neal - they don't seem to appear on any drawings that I'c ve cme across but do they show up on any aerial photos? 

 

By the way coaling seems to have been done direct from a wagon in layyter years and that might always have been the case although I have long wondered about the boarded-in area on the water tower and quite why it was like that?

 

Afternoon Mike,

I added two roads from the Turntable in order that I can park my Castle class locos between duties. On the official plans and photos of the turntable area, these roads are stubs only with chocks to prevent locos using them. This change gives me 4 roads off the turntable.

 

The only two roads from the turntable in GWR and BR days are the two closest to the Toomers office and these are the ones that have pits and a working area between them. That seems to be odd, given there was a pit in front of the engine shed, but at some point it was filled in. The two (Toomers) tracks just seem such a way from the engine shed, to my mind it would have made sense to keep the pit at the engine shed.

 

Coaling is interesting as you are right, it was only ever done from a wagon, yet at some point the boarded area under the water tower was supposed to be used. But in all the research I have, there is no evidence when that was. Similarly, I have only ever seen photos of that area boarded up.

 

I possibly have space to have a small coaling platform next to the track at the turntable entrance / exit and operationally that could make sense.

[Neal Ball]

Today has seen a bit more soldering on the (Toomers) roads at the table, but these haven't been tested yet as I had a parcel arrive.....

 

It was the new decoder for my Heljan AEC Railcar no 22 from DC Kits. I have changed the sugarcube speaker for their option 4 - Square bass speaker. It has certainly made a difference to the sound.

 

I made a couple of jerky videos with the iPhone, but I will film it properly with the camera and add the link, probably tomorrow.

[Neal Ball]

As promised here is the (shaky) video of my Heljan AEC railcar with LegomanBiffa sounds. The video shows the basic sugarcane speaker, when compared to the larger square Bass speaker.

 

 

I still need to add crew, I shall place an order with Modelu shortly.

[bgman]

10 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

compared to the larger square Bass speaker.

Well that works !

 

 

[Tim Dubya]

Sounds like my old Allegro that does.  I didn't realise they made a diesel version up until then

[Neal Ball]

9 minutes ago, Tim Dubya said:

Sounds like my old Allegro that does.  I didn't realise they made a diesel version up until then

 

Sounds like an AEC Routemaster bus - which I guess it should!

[Neal Ball]

Work has progressed on the turntable area today. 
 

All the tracks around the table have been lined up and are currently drying - hopefully overnight.

 

Unfortunately in turning the table on again - looking at the thread above, after a gap of perhaps 1 or 2 weeks - the table didn’t line up with any of the tracks.

 

I’ve left everything drying off and will have a look again tomorrow. I know I didn’t finish programming, so it’s no big deal - let’s hope it doesn’t happen too often though.

 

The brown paint around the turntable is the base paint, ready to start static grass application, as soon as everything is dry etc.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Neal Ball

[john dew]

4 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

 

Unfortunately in turning the table on again - looking at the thread above, after a gap of perhaps 1 or 2 weeks - the table didn’t line up with any of the tracks.

 

I’ve left everything drying off and will have a look again tomorrow. I know I didn’t finish programming, so it’s no big deal - let’s hope it doesn’t happen too often though.

 

 

Hi Neal

 

Hope you get it sorted ok

 

Once you have finished programming there should be an option to synchronise the tracks at start up

 

Best wishes

[Neal Ball]

 

1 minute ago, john dew said:

Hi Neal

 

Hope you get it sorted ok

 

Once you have finished programming there should be an option to synchronise the tracks at start up

 

Best wishes

 

Thanks john, hopefully yes, I need to spend more time on it. 

 

I am sure its straightforward - I possibly need to read the instructions again!

 

Regards, Neal.

[Neal Ball]

There has been a discussion recently about the servicing roads off the turntable at Henley on Thames.

 

 

It's odd, because by the 1930's the turntable was considered to have broken its back and was difficult to turn engines on. Although it continued to be used for locos, tender locos such as a Hall could just be turned, but anything bigger was sent to Reading.

 

On aerial photos as late as the 1950's you can see what looks like an "apron" around the tracks.

 

I shew this shot from the 1920's as its easier to see than the one from the 1950's which is a bit darker.

 

Clearly I am taking a bit of artistic licence with my turntable roads - I have 4 serviceable roads, whereas Henley on Thames only had 2.

 

To the left of the table, you can see the brick apron to service locos between trains. Opposite you see there are only chocks to stop locos falling off at that point.

 

I took the decision early on, that my turntable would have more roads, hence I have tracks to the right.

 

On that basis from the new turntable, I will extend a brick built apron from all four tracks. (2 x left and 2 x right)

 

I also hope to include a mess hut along the lines that @john dewhas included at Granby.

 

There was also a debate about an old back siding going around the turntable to supply the Toomers coal office at this point.

 

 

On this excerpt from the OS map for 1910/1913 there looks as if there is another track here - when I then looked at the neighbouring sheet, it looks as if it's just a wide footpath. Just beyond this section it takes almost a 30 degree turn and then peters out.

 

I have never found any photos of a track going round the back here - hence when I planned the layout I didn't include it.

 

Hopefully the engine yard will be complete soon and everything will be operational.

 

As ever -  to be continued:.....

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Neal Ball
photos changed

[Tallpaul69]

30 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

There has been a discussion recently about the servicing roads off the turntable at Henley on Thames.

 

 

It's odd, because by the 1930's the turntable was considered to have broken its back and was difficult to turn engines on. Although it continued to be used for locos, tender locos such as a Hall could just be turned, but anything bigger was sent to Reading.

 

On aerial photos as late as the 1950's you can see what looks like an "apron" around the tracks.

 

I shew this shot from the 1920's as its easier to see than the one from the 1950's which is a bit darker.

 

Clearly I am taking a bit of artistic licence with my turntable roads - I have 4 serviceable roads, whereas Henley on Thames only had 2.

 

 

To the left of the table, you can see the brick apron to service locos between trains. Opposite you see there are only chocks to stop locos falling off at that point.

 

I took the decision early on, that my turntable would have more roads, hence I have tracks to the right.

 

On that basis from the new turntable, I will extend a brick built apron from all four tracks. (2 x left and 2 x right)

 

I also hope to include a mess hut along the lines that @john dewhas included at Granby.

 

There was also a debate about an old back siding going around the turntable to supply the Toomers coal office at this point.

 

 

On this excerpt from the OS map for 1910/1913 there looks as if there is another track here - when I then looked at the neighbouring sheet, it looks as if it's just a wide footpath. Just beyond this section it takes almost a 30 degree turn and then peters out.

 

I have never found any photos of a track going round the back here - hence when I planned the layout I didn't include it.

 

Hopefully the engine yard will be complete soon and everything will be operational.

 

As ever -  to be continued:.....

 

Hi Neal,

It looks to me that the answer to the track or path query re the markings on the map to the right of the turntable road lies in the large "F.P." (Foot Path?) to the right of and aligned with the markings in question!

Also the 30deg turn you mention, is to me, the clincher?

Best of luck in finalising the turntable set up.

Cheers

Paul

[Neal Ball]

51 minutes ago, Tallpaul69 said:

Hi Neal,

It looks to me that the answer to the track or path query re the markings on the map to the right of the turntable road lies in the large "F.P." (Foot Path?) to the right of and aligned with the markings in question!

Also the 30deg turn you mention, is to me, the clincher?

Best of luck in finalising the turntable set up.

Cheers

Paul

Thanks Paul, it’s getting there!

[The Stationmaster]

Following the line of that thing that looks like a railway track but isn't it is partly footpath which then turns into a stream (which at one time - off the right hand edge of that map extract- is shown in the normal way as a stream alongside the path.  It seem that the path basically followed the line of the stream and was clearly built over it -  one old map I've found on line shows it as watercourse right back to Station Road and Sean Bolan's painting of the original station shows it as tree lined along the mapped route of the stream.

 

If you look at the thread linked here you can see the unclimbable iron railing that divided the path from the railway ina number of photos plus there are several in there which were taken from the path - as it was in the 1960s.  but it didn't really go anywhere.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/66922-the-stationmaster-says-goodbye-to-steam-at-henley-on-thames/

 

So I'm fairly sure that it was probably at least partially built over the stream as the latter eventually suddenly appeared as if from nowhere but containing running water (as it still does).  A slightly older 6" map shows the stream far more clearly as a stream with the footpath shown separately as below  (this is of course the original station layout with the short turntable beyond the overall roof of the station and Station Road following its original course-

 

 

 

Incidentally - and speaking from considerable everyday experience with a 'troublesome turntable' -  the story about its back being broken sounds a little odd to me as in theory it would have been well nigh immovable if that was the case.  Going by the problems we had at work with ours - where it was found that the centre casting was cracked or damaged  - that would definitely have made the table more difficult to turn because it was no longer on a reliable bearing surface at the centre and could (and did) throw all the weight on the carrying wheels at the ends.

 

 

[Neal Ball]

Thanks Mike @The Stationmaster

It’s interesting to see that map, again I hadn’t seen that before. Thumbing through the Wild Swan book, I was surprised that there are no maps in there.

 

With that coal siding being there pre 1904, I bet Toomers were very unhappy about that change. After the turntable was moved the only place to unload coal was the long back siding opposite the goods shed. Not exactly close to their office, but maybe that didn’t matter to them….

 

The story about turntable issues is interesting as I have taken that straight from the book….. Maybe it was more a case that tender engine crews simply preferred to turn at Reading. I guess now that’s lost in the mist of time!

[The Stationmaster]

9 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

Thanks Mike @The Stationmaster

It’s interesting to see that map, again I hadn’t seen that before. Thumbing through the Wild Swan book, I was surprised that there are no maps in there.

 

With that coal siding being there pre 1904, I bet Toomers were very unhappy about that change. After the turntable was moved the only place to unload coal was the long back siding opposite the goods shed. Not exactly close to their office, but maybe that didn’t matter to them….

 

The story about turntable issues is interesting as I have taken that straight from the book….. Maybe it was more a case that tender engine crews simply preferred to turn at Reading. I guess now that’s lost in the mist of time!

Toomers of course weren't the only coal merchant using the station but the others had their offices in the town (one of them was also a grocer) so they obviously had no choice after the 1904 changes.  Map research and access to old editions was far different back in the days when Paul wrote the book so I don't think it occurred to him (and definitely hot to me) at the time that looking out old OS maps - for a price - would add much to what he was picking up from people whose memories went back into the 1920s.

 

I too thought nothing of the story about the turntable (so definitely didn't query it when proof reading the book and chaecking all the photo captions) until I acquired some everyday experience of problems with one at my day job which was rather central to the way we worked the depot I was managing at the time.  But perhaps a telling part of that story was that even in the early 1980s Swindon still had access to the necessary drawings to get a part made although the cost was pretty frightening hence we carried on after a 'repair' - which didn't even last a year in heavy daily use.   But in any case if the table was 'heavy' (and it was little used anyway in later years) no doubt any story could v be advanced as offering a reason not to use it.   And of course as far as engines going to/from Reading were concerned they would inevitably be running tender first for half of their journey whatever way round they happened to be

[ChrisN]

On 05/08/2021 at 18:28, Siberian Snooper said:

Didn't the Cambrian have some 3 plank wagons?

 

 

I said a while ago that the Cambrian did not have any 3 plank wagons.  I based this on the list of wagons passed on to the GWR.  However, just today I was reading a book and there was a picture of a Cambrian 3 plank.  The picture was taken in 1890 and the wagon appeared to have dumb buffers.  I say appeared as the photo was not very good and I need to look at it when I am at home under my magnifying glass.  Even if not it was not a modern wagon, and only had brakes on one side at that date so nothing like the 3 plank offered for sale.  

[Neal Ball]

13 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Toomers of course weren't the only coal merchant using the station but the others had their offices in the town (one of them was also a grocer) so they obviously had no choice after the 1904 changes.  Map research and access to old editions was far different back in the days when Paul wrote the book so I don't think it occurred to him (and definitely hot to me) at the time that looking out old OS maps - for a price - would add much to what he was picking up from people whose memories went back into the 1920s.

 

I too thought nothing of the story about the turntable (so definitely didn't query it when proof reading the book and chaecking all the photo captions) until I acquired some everyday experience of problems with one at my day job which was rather central to the way we worked the depot I was managing at the time.  But perhaps a telling part of that story was that even in the early 1980s Swindon still had access to the necessary drawings to get a part made although the cost was pretty frightening hence we carried on after a 'repair' - which didn't even last a year in heavy daily use.   But in any case if the table was 'heavy' (and it was little used anyway in later years) no doubt any story could v be advanced as offering a reason not to use it.   And of course as far as engines going to/from Reading were concerned they would inevitably be running tender first for half of their journey whatever way round they happened to be

 

Thanks Mike that’s great.

[Denbridge]

21 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Toomers of course weren't the only coal merchant using the station but the others had their offices in the town (one of them was also a grocer) so they obviously had no choice after the 1904 changes.  Map research and access to old editions was far different back in the days when Paul wrote the book so I don't think it occurred to him (and definitely hot to me) at the time that looking out old OS maps - for a price - would add much to what he was picking up from people whose memories went back into the 1920s.

 

I too thought nothing of the story about the turntable (so definitely didn't query it when proof reading the book and chaecking all the photo captions) until I acquired some everyday experience of problems with one at my day job which was rather central to the way we worked the depot I was managing at the time.  But perhaps a telling part of that story was that even in the early 1980s Swindon still had access to the necessary drawings to get a part made although the cost was pretty frightening hence we carried on after a 'repair' - which didn't even last a year in heavy daily use.   But in any case if the table was 'heavy' (and it was little used anyway in later years) no doubt any story could v be advanced as offering a reason not to use it.   And of course as far as engines going to/from Reading were concerned they would inevitably be running tender first for half of their journey whatever way round they happened to be

There was also A. Butler coal merchants of Henley, immortalised in the long coal train at Pendon.