Henley-on-Thames - GWR in the 1930's

[Graham T]

I have a greenwood turntable, and can't say I'm really looking forward to building it having read all this Neal!

[Harlequin]

Hi Neal,

 

This is an awful situation. Even if this guy can ever get your turntable working will you ever really be happy with it or trust it? Whatever action you take against him maybe it's worth starting to think about alternatives. Could you fit a different drive system to the turntable? What does it look like underneath?

 

P.S. Have you seen that Dapol are going to make RTR full brake Collet coaches?  In N gauge, sadly.

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Harlequin

[Neal Ball]

46 minutes ago, Graham T said:

I have a greenwood turntable, and can't say I'm really looking forward to building it having read all this Neal!

Good luck Graham, hopefully yours will go together well… you might need to talk to Stephen Freeman during the build as I understand from his original post the instructions are a bit deficient as well.

 

45 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Hi Neal,

 

This is an awful situation. Even if this guy can ever get your turntable working will you ever really be happy with it or trust it? Whatever action you take against him maybe it's worth starting to think about alternatives. Could you fit a different drive system to the turntable? What does it look like underneath?

 

P.S. Have you seen that Dapol are going to make RTR full brake Collet coaches?  In N gauge, sadly.

 

Thanks Phil. It’s very tempting to rip it out and get someone build me the merg control panel. I tried it ages ago and couldn’t get the components to work.

 

I couldn’t get over his comments and setting his priorities…. As if it’s all my fault.

 

Interesting about Dapol full brakes, but I’m convinced Hornby will be announcing them on 10th January…. Or Bachmann will show us an EP of their new range of GWR carriages in February…. Here’s hoping!

[TrevorP1]

2 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

 

BUT I have to be patient as he has shows to attend! 
 

 

 

We can only hope that the folks attending these shows have read of your experience.

[rapidoandy]

We did look at the option of adding lights to the toad. However, some people would want to run them the opposite way to others and its one of those issues where you couldn't make everyone happy. 

 

However it does look rather smart and with the options tooled we can cater for most of the AA20 variants.

 

 

 

 

Andy

[Neal Ball]

3 hours ago, rapidoandy said:

We did look at the option of adding lights to the toad. However, some people would want to run them the opposite way to others and its one of those issues where you couldn't make everyone happy. 

 

However it does look rather smart and with the options tooled we can cater for most of the AA20 variants.

 

 

 

 

Andy

Certainly looks good Andy thank you. Any decorated samples… feel free to leave them here as well :-)

[Neal Ball]

It's a Grange day today:

 

I have finally sorted out the sound fitting for the GWR 4-6-0 Grange class loco no 6860.

 

Much as I was trying not to remove the coal load (complete with fresh coal), it was easier to remove it. I have also taken out the tender weight - there just wasn't the space. It weighed 25g so I might need to add some lead shot under the frames out of sight.

 

Its a squeeze to get everything in:

 

 

 

 

 

 

As well as coal, the loco also has a crew and now also sports some Modelu lamps for a class C fitted parcels train:

 

 

 

 

 

The video of the sounds is here - enjoy!

 

 

I need to look at the chuff rates and check its ok. Given the decoder only arrived this week, I am pleased with the outcome so far.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Neal Ball
photos changed

[Harlequin]

She sounds great! How did you support the coal above the speaker?

 

[Neal Ball]

1 hour ago, Harlequin said:

She sounds great! How did you support the coal above the speaker?

 

 

Using the original Hornby coal load... however, all of the supporting lugs were cut off as they fouled the decoder and speaker below.

 

There is a small area of coal that might be a bit too high, but I can live with that.

 

During the installation of the decoder, the red wire came off - hence the cut pin the insulation over the decoder - it was straightforward to solder it back onto the tab.

 

I keep meaning to photograph the workings under the turntable for you Phil - it looks a bit like the workings on a vinyl turntable to be honest - belt driven with reduction gearing. I will try and do it next week.

[Neal Ball]

Jobs for next week:

 

Next week, I hope to get back onto the carriages project - although the gloss varnish has now arrived, I reckon it's possibly too cold for spraying. So the project might only get so far. But at least they will be running, just not painted!

 

I could maybe even start on the bogies for the Siphon carriages, they should be straightforward to do....

 

Its all go at Henley on Thames! - enjoy your weekend.

[Harlequin]

24 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

 

Using the original Hornby coal load... however, all of the supporting lugs were cut off as they fouled the decoder and speaker below.

 

There is a small area of coal that might be a bit too high, but I can live with that.

I see. I asked because you are very close to my technique for improving the sound by allowing it to come through the coal load for a more direct path to the listener: Form some fine metal mesh to shape and glue coal on top using Copydex.

 

24 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

 

During the installation of the decoder, the red wire came off - hence the cut pin the insulation over the decoder - it was straightforward to solder it back onto the tab.

 

I keep meaning to photograph the workings under the turntable for you Phil - it looks a bit like the workings on a vinyl turntable to be honest - belt driven with reduction gearing. I will try and do it next week.

Thanks, it would be interesting.

 

[Neal Ball]

1 hour ago, Harlequin said:

I see. I asked because you are very close to my technique for improving the sound by allowing it to come through the coal load for a more direct path to the listener: Form some fine metal mesh to shape and glue coal on top using Copydex.

 

Yes I’ve seen that, but didn’t have any mesh to hand.

 

However! 
The Hornby coal load was a bit short of the space I had cut away, so above the top of the first section of speaker I have glued a section of emery paper! Maybe it’s acting as a reverb :-)

[Nick Gough]

When you look at the size of those Churchward tenders it's no wonder that the real ones needed a well tank to carry enough water!

[Denbridge]

2 hours ago, Nick Gough said:

When you look at the size of those Churchward tenders it's no wonder that the real ones needed a well tank to carry enough water!

You could also say that since a Churchward boiler boiled less water per mile than any other boiler design, they didn't need to haul as much around 

[Neal Ball]

The turntable gubbins!

 

This is the control gear for the turntable. 
 

Here you can see the 12v input (Mike suggested maybe it was a voltage issue, which given the supply is on a transformer he has supplied, I think it’s doubtful) ; plus the 6 strand telephone type cable that goes to the control input pad; the 4 cables that go to the motor. There are no other connections.

 

The front of the control panel…. It’s here that numbers 2; 5; 8 and 0 don’t work in the programming mode. I could get round 2;5;8 but I need 0 to get a full 360 degree turn.

 

Interestingly the instructions do mention the ability of using a different panel with push buttons. But that’s only for selecting a road, not programming.

 

The replacement panel is coming via UPS but hasn’t left the uk at the moment.

 

Until that arrives, I can get the table to rotate and line it up by sight* - but of course I can’t do that from the normal control point as I can’t see that distance with any certainty that it’s in the right place! (*The programming means it actually stops at a required track).

 

edit: April 2022 Ive replaced the detailed photos with the sunflower from our garden last summer.

 

It took ages to get a working turntable - well into the start of 2022

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Neal Ball
Sunflower

[Harlequin]

Hi Neal,

Thanks for the photos. The mechanism looks OK. Is there much play in the deck?

I notice that the instructions show a different circuit board than the one you’ve got…

You could perhaps get a different stepper motor controller. I guess that’s what the Merg circuit is but another option would be to get a ready made controller that plugs into a Raspberry Pi (or Arduino) and write a little bit of code to drive it. The UI could be as simple as a set of buttons or a circular display on a screen showing the connecting spurs and the position of the deck graphically.

https://thepihut.com/products/pistep2-quad-stepper-motor-controller-for-raspberry-pi?variant=32236002607166&currency=GBP&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic

[Neal Ball]

Hi Phil aka @Harlequin I’ve copied your reply on the basis it might be easier:

 

Thanks for the photos. The mechanism looks OK. Is there much play in the deck?

 

           No not at all….

 

I notice that the instructions show a different circuit board than the one you’ve got…

 

            Unfortunately the instructions vary considerably to the actual product supplied… that certainly doesn’t help.

 

You could perhaps get a different stepper motor controller. I guess that’s what the Merg circuit is

 

      Possibly, but by comparison it looks inferior in terms of the IC components. Bear in mind of course that the Merg components are a stand alone unit designed to be programmed in pretty much the same manner. Once done it should go back to track 1 etc.

 

but another option would be to get a ready made controller that plugs into a Raspberry Pi (or Arduino)

 

     Unfortunately you are now talking a different language, which is why I left Merg… it was all over my head! - I never understood the Arduino concept.

 

and write a little bit of code to drive it. The UI could be as simple as a set of buttons or a circular display on a screen showing the connecting spurs and the position of the deck graphically.

 

       I get that, but not sure how it would be programmed…. I don’t want to have to dive under all the time to line the tracks up!

 

Another issue that I had this morning…. But I don’t know if that’s where we are or a bigger issue…

 

I told the controller to go to track 6 (entry/exit) road and it went to a random position…. I hope that’s not the next issue..

 

Given the hard reset is 0 held for x time…. And 0 doesn’t work… it’s hard to say what’s going on… we’ll see….

 

But it’s getting to the point i wish I hadn’t gone down this road :-(

[Harlequin]

Hi Neal,

 

It's good that there's no play in the deck. That confirms that the actual mechanism is nicely engineered and worth keeping.

 

So you just need a reliable way to drive the stepper motor and index the stopping positions. Hopefully "Mr. Greenwood" will finally be able to fix his electronics - that would be the simplest solution.

 

But I don't think the alternative solutions are as complicated as they might seem at first sight.

 

You could buy an off the shelf "programmable stepper motor controller" (search Google). No need to understand the electronics! That will do exactly what the Greenwood device does but you'd need to learn how to program it (probably not very difficult) and it's not so railway-focused. Cost ~£35.

 

Alternatively I'm sure the Raspberry Pi/Arduino solution has been done before and someone out there must have some software they might be willing to share. Again, the electronics would be off-the-shelf parts that thousands of people already use to drive stepper motors reliably. The advantage of a more software-based solution is that it's more flexible and could be modified to work exactly how you want and to be more railway-friendly. 

 

[Neal Ball]

31 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Hi Neal,

 

It's good that there's no play in the deck. That confirms that the actual mechanism is nicely engineered and worth keeping.

 

So you just need a reliable way to drive the stepper motor and index the stopping positions. Hopefully "Mr. Greenwood" will finally be able to fix his electronics - that would be the simplest solution.

 

But I don't think the alternative solutions are as complicated as they might seem at first sight.

 

You could buy an off the shelf "programmable stepper motor controller" (search Google). No need to understand the electronics! That will do exactly what the Greenwood device does but you'd need to learn how to program it (probably not very difficult) and it's not so railway-focused. Cost ~£35.

 

Alternatively I'm sure the Raspberry Pi/Arduino solution has been done before and someone out there must have some software they might be willing to share. Again, the electronics would be off-the-shelf parts that thousands of people already use to drive stepper motors reliably. The advantage of a more software-based solution is that it's more flexible and could be modified to work exactly how you want and to be more railway-friendly. 

 

Thanks for this Phil.

 

The Raspberry Pi / Arduino is interesting and got me thinking about a fast clock again. Ages ago @Richard Mawer and I were talking about this.

 

I have looked at the Raspberry solution for the turntable project and think it might be the way to go, particularly if I can then build other options in….

 

Ive downloaded the Pi handbook for 2022 and followed it through (still more to read) to get a basic understanding. I see I can program the Pi on my Mac and give the codes over via an micro so card. But I got stuck when I need a hdmi connection to get a screen…. Food for thought, I need to look at gizmos to connect my MacBook to a display screen…

 

Ive also looked here: https://magpi.raspberrypi.com/articles/raspberry-pi-kit-and-gadget-guide 

 

 

[Neal Ball]

Moving away from the turntable:

 

I had some trains running this afternoon. There were comments on the Dapol Prairie thread saying that the Hornby 61xx 2-6-2T wasn't very powerful... I'm pleased to say that mine was happy today with a 6 carriage formation.

 

This is 6109 which had a few outstanding jobs completed; namely crew were added, together with the smokebox lamp.

 

 

The Grange 4-6-0 no 6860 arrives with a local train into Platform 1 at Henley on Thames.... did you know December 6th 1936 was a Sunday?

 

 

 

The 61xx left Henley and was seen later bringing a 6 carriage train into Platform 2:

 

Before bringing the train into the station, the 61xx and 6 carriages made several circuits "in the country" away from the on-scene part of my railway.

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Neal Ball
photos changed

[Neal Ball]

H44 third class restaurant carriage:

 

The second side has now been glued on the frame of the Airfix Centenary donor carriage. This is now gluing overnight.

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Neal Ball
photo changed

[Nick Gough]

You've certainly got plenty of clamps Neal!

[Neal Ball]

1 hour ago, Nick Gough said:

You've certainly got plenty of clamps Neal!

Always need a lot of clamps Nick.

[Neal Ball]

A Saint for 2022?
 

This is part of a post from the GWS Didcot page on Facebook. I wonder if Hornby will produce a new Saint loco in 2022, it’s overdue now surely…. (The 2022 announcement missed anything new for the Great Western Railway)

 

On this day in history – 6 December 1905, a special non-stop train ran from Paddington to Plymouth, and returned the following day, to test the staying power and speed of an early Saint class 4-6-0 locomotive, No 173 (later 2973) ‘Robins Bolitho’, which had been built earlier that year. Robins Bolitho was a Director of the Great Western Railway and a Cornish banker…..

….. ‘Robins Bolitho’ after the locomotive had been renumbered 2973, and was probably taken in the early 1920s on a snowy day. There is a build up of snow on the locomotive’s buffer beam which suggests it has been running through a storm, although the locomotive is fitted with the GWR’s automatic train control apparatus which would have assisted the footplate crew in poor visibility.

edit: April 2022 in reloading all my photos from 2021, I couldn't find the blog this item referred to. I have therefore replaced Robins Bolitho with the Saint loco no 2981 Ivanhoe, seen here at Tilehurst with the Cheltenham Spa Express.

 

 

I've since found the photo for Robins Bolitho - Saint class loco no 2973 built 1905 withdrawn 1933.

 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Neal Ball
Ivanhoe photo added

[Harlequin]

“Robins Bolitho” is a great name for a loco.

The ‘Present your case’ feature in this month’s Model Rail magazine is the Saint class.

It feels like the idea is gathering steam…