Wild Boar Fell Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Hello, I am trying to find out information on the construction and operation of the ICI 40t Bogie Tankers (For carrying caustic soda), these were the ones modelled by Hornby Dublo. On the old forum there is some information about the demise of these wagons but little about when they were built and where they operated, as well as what they ran with. If anyone has and ideas about the above and general information about the wagons (it appears there were two bogie designs etc) I would be very greatful. Cheers, Wild Boar Fell 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium finelines Posted December 20, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 20, 2014 Railway Archive 9 or 10. They ended up in South Wales as internal user flat wagons. The article(s) included the similar but different Murgatroyds ones. Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class"66" Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 They use to operate out of Immingham on behalf of (Atochem and Dow) Chemicals to the Roche Pharmaceutical plant in Dalry. Ive read book on all this,wil see if ive stil got it buddy... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class"66" Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Atochem and Dow Chemicals hired the tankers on long term lease from "Procor and Tiger Rail... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class"66" Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Wil try find my pictures for you buddy.. I also no that the tanker company who built them was called "Standard wagon" who built tankers in 1968 for ICI, but then ice leased to other Sodium hydroxide companys... Some tankers had ICI decals and others had ATO ... Hope this helps... cheers neil.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold DaveF Posted December 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2014 Here's a photo (one of Dad's) taken at Daybrook on the GN line around Nottingham in about 1954. Daybrook wagons including ICI tanker in up goods c1954 JVol3080 David 13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 (edited) Your description appears to have confused several correspondents. I have several officials and details of a grounded one in my collection of ICI tank wagons pre TOPS. http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/iciunfittank Paul Edited December 24, 2014 by hmrspaul 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Wil try find my pictures for you buddy.. I also no that the tanker company who built them was called "Standard wagon" who built tankers in 1968 for ICI, but then ice leased to other Sodium hydroxide companys... Some tankers had ICI decals and others had ATO ... Hope this helps... cheers neil.. I think the wagons being discussed were a bit older than this- the Hornby-Dublo model dates from the mid-1960s at the latest. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 (edited) Book "Celebration of Steam West Midlands" by J B Bucknall (Ian Allan) Page 56 (top) Photo of a GW Pannier tank loco (6422) hauling one ICI bogie tank + Brake Van on 26 April 1957 at Oxley Branch Jcn working the Saturdays only Courtaulds sidings - Oxley sidings train. Caustic Soda mentioned as load. Page 56 (bottom) Photo of GW 2-8-0 No 2850 on a local freight Oxley to Baggeridge Jcn again at Oxley Branch Jcn. Behind loco is a LMS Guards Van, ICI Bogie Tanker, 2 wood open wagons, 2 more ICI bogie tankers and then various wagons disappearing behind a tree !! No further details This off the web - a blue (Hornby Dublo) one http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwrf2075.htm Hope this is of use. Brit15 Edited December 21, 2014 by APOLLO 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Boar Fell Posted December 21, 2014 Author Share Posted December 21, 2014 Thanks all, Just to clarify I mean the older wagons that DaveF and HMRSPaul have mention. Apologies for any confusion. Regards, Wild Boar Fell Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class"66" Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Think I got carried away there Wild Boar Fell Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
synthnut Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Loving this photo! Book "Celebration of Steam West Midlands" by J B Bucknall (Ian Allan) Page 56 (top) Photo of a GW Pannier tank loco (6422) hauling one ICI bogie tank + Brake Van on 26 April 1957 at Oxley Branch Jcn working the Saturdays only Courtaulds sidings - Oxley sidings train. Caustic Soda mentioned as load. Page 56 (bottom) Photo of GW 2-8-0 No 2850 on a local freight Oxley to Baggeridge Jcn again at Oxley Branch Jcn. Behind loco is a LMS Guards Van, ICI Bogie Tanker, 2 wood open wagons, 2 more ICI bogie tankers and then various wagons disappearing behind a tree !! No further details This off the web - a blue (Hornby Dublo) one http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwrf2075.htm Hope this is of use. Brit15 I feel this picture is worthy of another thread relating to looking like the real thing! Perhaps the hanging basket/static grass is a bit unrealistic, but otherwise I do like the attempt at making it look realistic. I think the use of the plain grey back scene and faded gasworks work well to give a feeling of depth. Nice weathering on the rolling stock, but there's no hiding that those buildings are cardboard... i'll get my coat. TTFN, Ben 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 (edited) Book "Celebration of Steam West Midlands" by J B Bucknall (Ian Allan) Page 56 (top) Photo of a GW Pannier tank loco (6422) hauling one ICI bogie tank + Brake Van on 26 April 1957 at Oxley Branch Jcn working the Saturdays only Courtaulds sidings - Oxley sidings train. Caustic Soda mentioned as load. Page 56 (bottom) Photo of GW 2-8-0 No 2850 on a local freight Oxley to Baggeridge Jcn again at Oxley Branch Jcn. Behind loco is a LMS Guards Van, ICI Bogie Tanker, 2 wood open wagons, 2 more ICI bogie tankers and then various wagons disappearing behind a tree !! No further details This off the web - a blue (Hornby Dublo) one http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwrf2075.htm Hope this is of use. Brit15 I like this photo too. I am intrigued by the ground disc signal: did this rotate around its vertical axis to change the indication? Time to Google I suppose! Edited December 24, 2014 by david.hill64 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Loving this photo! I feel this picture is worthy of another thread relating to looking like the real thing! Perhaps the hanging basket/static grass is a bit unrealistic, but otherwise I do like the attempt at making it look realistic. I think the use of the plain grey back scene and faded gasworks work well to give a feeling of depth. Nice weathering on the rolling stock, but there's no hiding that those buildings are cardboard... i'll get my coat. TTFN, Ben And a Cardiff Corporation 'bus in the West Midlands.................... . Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwich station Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 these were the ones modelled by Hornby Dublo. Mine were modelled by Triang but possibly only after taking Hornby over. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 And a Cardiff Corporation 'bus in the West Midlands.................... . Brian R Its presence on the bridge confirming that this is indeed a model. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Loving this photo! I feel this picture is worthy of another thread relating to looking like the real thing! Perhaps the hanging basket/static grass is a bit unrealistic, but otherwise I do like the attempt at making it look realistic. I think the use of the plain grey back scene and faded gasworks work well to give a feeling of depth. Nice weathering on the rolling stock, but there's no hiding that those buildings are cardboard... i'll get my coat. TTFN, Ben That rake of tank wagons is improbably mixed... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Should these tanks and the bogie Chlorine ones appear on the wish list for 2015? Mark Saunders 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefreight Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 (edited) The fleet of ICI bogie caustic soda tanks was initially built to work from the companies Castner-Kellner works in Runcorn to the Courtaulds plant at Flint, although as the fleet grew they spread their wings a little. The Catalyst Museum in Widnes hold the ICI General Chemical Division paper archive which contains more details. Davefreight Edited December 24, 2014 by davefreight Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Mine were modelled by Triang but possibly only after taking Hornby over. Two different models. Tri-ang also did them in their TT range. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invicta Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 (edited) That rake of tank wagons is improbably mixed... I was just thinking that as well- I don't really know much about the Murgatroyds & ICI tankers other than being aware of the HD & Triang models, but had always assumed they were the kind of wagon generally seen in block trains, rather than singly in general mixed goods workings. I don't remember ever seeing the real thing in traffic, but a former clubmate is a Triang collector and had a fair number of the white Murgatroyds tankers which he sometimes brought out for club running nights, so I guess I'm used to seeing them in block trains in model form Should these tanks and the bogie Chlorine ones appear on the wish list for 2015? Mark Saunders They're impressive beasts aren't they- after looking at those pics, I'm definitely feeling the need to own one or two.... At the risk of heading off-topic into general wishlistery, how good are the old HD & Triang models? Apart from the usual 1960's-standard wheels and bogies, are the basic mouldings accurate or did the manufacturers take liberties with them? Edited December 27, 2014 by Invicta Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium finelines Posted December 27, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 27, 2014 I believe the HD one was pretty good. The Murgatroyds ones were covered in Railway Archive 9 I think. It's a year or two since I read about them but I think there were more Murgatroyds than ICI and the differences were more than a coat of paint. Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Pictures of both versions: Hornby Dublo: http://thumbs.worthpoint.com/s9r53PRQk_C3iowV-ZfC7jKgRxw=/400x0/images/images1/360/0412/02/360_f956a085ea41ff3aa57ae899f20d1f32.jpg Tri-ang: http://thumbs.worthpoint.com/-j4fxSV8ukAXcawXxDKQYk0PihM=/400x0/images/images1/360/0512/27/360_6f6dd3d8c094bfd93da76ec7efffff28.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 I was wondering if the chlorine tank was acting as a barrier wagon for the class A tanks behind? Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 (edited) The Murgatroyds came in batches which differed with time. http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bpcmchlorinetbv and http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bpcmchlorinetbb A history of these wagons has been published Fidczuk, Peter (2007) Gas by Rail Part 3: Murgatroyd’s Railway Archive No. 15 p25 – 42 + back cover. As can be seen they ended up in an attractive BP Chemicals livery. http://lightmoor.co.uk/view_book.php?ref=RARCH15§ion=Railway%20Archive All 4 types have been measured (as was the body of the earlier ICI type that started this topic) Peter does briefly mention and illustrate the 116 ICI Caustic Soda tanks introduced pre WW2 which had a diamond bogie (not like the models though). The earlier Murgatroyds had GWR/BR plate back bogies from new. Running individually (not in block trains) appears to have been quite usual. Paul Edited December 27, 2014 by hmrspaul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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