Nu cast kits - accuracy

[drduncan]

Dear all,

 

Having seen nucast kits appear on ebay from time to time, and heard that the castings are of good quality, I was wondering how accurate the kits are? Obviously the solid brass chassis are crude, but above the footplate how good are they?

 

For example, how accurate is the nucast kit for the NER T2/LNER Q5

 

Regards and wishing you all a merry xmas

drduncan

[Worsdell forever]

For example, how accurate is the nucast kit for the NER T2/LNER Q5

 

 

You've got it spot on there, the T2 became Q6 and T1 became Q5, the NuCast kit was somewhere in between. 

 

So to answer your question, not very. 

 

(The J26/27 is in some respect worse, the smokebox is the same diameter as the boiler   )

[bigherb]

Do know about accuracy of all of their range, but they where one of the better white metal ranges you could actually make some quite nice models.

 

 

 

[decauville1126]

I think that when they acquired/absorbed/adsorbed the former K's range they produced some pretty poor stuff which someone told me at the time was down to making new moulds from existing castings rather than the masters as they couldn't find them at that time and wanted to get kits into the market.

 

Perhaps someone out there has any further ideas on this?

[micknich2003]

They will no doubt be has accurate as the drawings they were made from, in other words a bit "Hit and Miss", well certainly by today's standards.

[Joseph_Pestell]

White-metal kits will always be subject to some inaccuracy: that's the nature of the material that you are using. The masters need to be made by someone who has a good understanding of how the various parts will shrink as the metal cools. He also has to consider what can easily be injected into a mould and got out in one part. As a caster, nothing worse than the same part in a kit failing most times in the mould.

 

And then there is the matter of the quality of the moulds. Mike Griffiths (NuCast) had his own mould-making equipment so could turn out new moulds easily enough, not the case for all producers. But it did take a while for the Ks kits (Edit: UK prototype) to be remoulded because all the masters arrived mixed up in a big bucket! Took a long time to sort them all out. (Edit: Most of the European stuff never was sorted)

 

The Nu-Cast range was made up from a whole series of ranges, some dating back to the early 60's. Back then, a lot of other compromises had to be made to accommodate what was available by way of commercial chassis, wheels, etc. And then, of course, we run into the ultimate compromise, 16.5mm gauge which when combined with the thickness of whitemetal splashers gives the designer a real headache!

 

One final point, not all NuCast locos had solid chassis. Mike produced etched chassis for most and, I think, for locos not in the range as well.

[mike morley]

Towards the end the masters were so worn out any pretence at accuracy had gone.

I bought a GWR 2021 saddle tank kit (ex Cotswold, I believe) about 18 months before the line disappeared and it was so badly cast it is probably unbuildable.  Some parts are such badly mis-shapen lumps it is difficult to even identify what they are supposed to be.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Towards the end the masters were so worn out any pretence at accuracy had gone.

I bought a GWR 2021 saddle tank kit (ex Cotswold, I believe) about 18 months before the line disappeared and it was so badly cast it is probably unbuildable.  Some parts are such badly mis-shapen lumps it is difficult to even identify what they are supposed to be.

 

Masters don't wear out. It must have been the moulds.

 

In view of the very low sales volumes for whitemetal kits in recent years, it would probably not have been viable to make new moulds (even though Mike had the equipment in his workshop).

 

If I had taken over the business, I was going to follow a policy of revising all the kits bringing out a few at a time as quickly I could redo the moulds, chassis and instructions (downloadable). A lot of the range would have had to been abandoned as uneconomic to upgrade to modern standards or superseded (eg 64xx) by recent mass production efforts.

[Ian Kirk]

Hi,

 

I can't comment on the Q5, not one I knew but in the 70s/80s I did some pattern making work for Nu Cast and Cotswold. When Bill Stott had Nu Cast he did his best to give his pattern makers the most accurate drawings etc. that he could. There was usually a pile of photographs from Real Photoprints and in some cases a GA drawing from BRs own archives. There was nothing like the amount of readily accessible prototype material that we have today though.  For many years I had the GA of the B16 on the wall of my workshop.

As has been said the masters (patterns) do not wear out. What goes is the rubber moulds that are made from them.   Basically the metal patterns are arranged on a disc of raw rubber, covered with another disc and treated in a vulcanising press. The vulcanised rubber is hard like car tyres and can withstand the heat of the moulten metal for a time but gradually starts to "burn out". The trick was to get the most "spins" possible before the quality of the castings began to suffer. No problem while white metal was "state of the art" and orders kept coming in. Moulds could be remade regularly. Latterly with minimal demand I suspect the expense of re-moulding could not be justified and quality could suffer. Some of the kits I see on ebay seem to be in the original boxes so I would assume that the castings were produced a long time ago........... 

I must confess to sometimes buying plastic kits of mine back through eBay (sad isn't it I usually pay much more than I got for selling the original ) I am always careful to identify from the "period" of the packaging that it was one I produced during my ownership.........

 

best wishes,

 

Ian.

[Horsetan]

....If I had taken over the business...

Fortunately for your wallet, you didn't.

[DLT]

I've only ever built two Nu-Cast kits, but the quality of the castings in both was excellent.

The brass chassis kits were very much were "of their time" and replaced by scratchbuilt versions.

Cheers,

Dave.

[uax6]

It's a real shame that no-one bought the range in the end, as there are some great locos in there that are now lost. Espeically the Scottish range of locos... A proper tragady to us Scottish modellers!

 

Andy G

 

Edit: Does the present owner have an email or phone number on the off chance I could relieve him of a few bits?

[Arthur]

 

Certainly some of the later Nu Cast kits, the B16/3 and Stanier 2-4-6t for example, had etched frames. I wouldn't call them an etched chassis as in, say, the Comet sense, as my recollection is that they were quite thick and were designed to be screwed together. A separate, thin, etch provided valve gear and a few detail parts.

 

I seem to recall that Larry Goddard commented recently on the high quality masters which somebody he knew supplied to Bill Stott. (Apologies if I'm wrong there Larry).

 

I agree with Big Herbs comment, I'd say they were generally the best of the pure cast kits, only being bettered by the DJH cast/etched range.

[Horsetan]

Certainly some of the later Nu Cast kits, the B16/3 and Stanier 2-4-6t for example, had etched frames. I wouldn't call them an etched chassis as in, say, the Comet sense, as my recollection is that they were quite thick and were designed to be screwed together.....

Yes, they were 36-thou, DJH "armour plate" grade. Even that was a giant leap forward compared to what had underpinned NuCast engines previously.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Fortunately for your wallet, you didn't.

You don't know the price. It fell through just through other unfortunate, even silly, circumstances. It will always be a big regret to me.

[ArthurK]

Dear all,

 

Having seen nucast kits appear on ebay from time to time, and heard that the castings are of good quality, I was wondering how accurate the kits are? Obviously the solid brass chassis are crude, but above the footplate how good are they?

 

For example, how accurate is the nucast kit for the NER T2/LNER Q5

 

Regards and wishing you all a merry xmas

drduncan

 

 

The NuCast Q6 has some very serious dimensional problems. They simply put a bigger boiler on a Q5 and assumed every thing else was the same. I isn't. The frames are 12 inches longer (4mm) where as the boiler is about 18" (6mm)  longer. There was a comment on this site where the poster was quite happy with hit NuCast build. Years ago I built one of these as it was all that was available but if you want a more accurate model in cast metal then go for the Alexander kit. For the more advanced modeller try the Bradwell etched brass kit.

 

ArthurK

[Joseph_Pestell]

 

 

The NuCast Q6 has some very serious dimensional problems. They simply put a bigger boiler on a Q5 and assumed every thing else was the same. I isn't. The frames are 12 inches longer (4mm) where as the boiler is about 18" (6mm)  longer. There was a comment on this site where the poster was quite happy with hit NuCast build. Years ago I built one of these as it was all that was available but if you want a more accurate model in cast metal then go for the Alexander kit. For the more advanced modeller try the Bradwell etched brass kit.

 

ArthurK

 

Bit late now! Most will simply buy the DJM r-t-r/

[ArthurK]

One should assume that if someone is asking about kits then he is interested in building one. The information I provided was to help him along the way. The presence or otherwise of an RTR model goes no way to answering his question.

 

ArthurK

[hayfield]

I don't know if the Nucast kits followed the same practice that the GEM kits have , where certainly both the quality of both the castings and the metal have improved greatly over the years. I do have a Nucast replacement chassis for a couple of Keyser kits which are a great improvement.

 

As for accuracy, which will never be as good in a whitemetal kit as an etched kit, though etched kits are greatly improved when some parts are cast rather than etched. The best kits are those which use the material best suited to the job at hand  

[olivegreen]

Having read all the above, I have just unearthed the Nucast Drummond T14 (original condition with the enormous splashers) from my 'I'll build it one day' box.

The castings are good quality - no flash at all, even on the smallest pieces, and just a couple of parting lines to file away from the bigger castings. I must have bought it 15 or more years ago: running a ruler over it quickly, it seems OK to me but I'm not sure if it would stand up to rivet-counting scrutiny these days. The nickel silver frets are good, too (quality, if not dimension - same reservation applies).

As the OP says, the chassis is another story - robust brass (nothing wrong with that) but designed for the X04. Still not sure what to do about that...

 

 

(edited for syntax!)

[Thane of Fife]

I still have some NuCast kits to build. 

I don't like the original Cast chassis, or the ex-Cotswold milled brass lump chassis.

I replace these with Gibson/Comet offerings, if available, but scratchbuild if not.

There were a lot of NuCast kits covering prototypes than have not been covered by kit producers.

They would be boring if they were like Airfix "shake the box and it's made" plastic kits.

I feel quite pleased when I complete a white metal kit.

Come back NuCast, we miss you.

 

Thane of Fife

[Horsetan]

You don't know the price. ....

I'd rather not know.

[s_ellinson]

I've just seen a note on a professional modeller's website that says that the nu cast range has been bought by SE Finecast. Apparently the kits are being "gone through" to see if it's viable to re-release them. The sentinel and one other are - apparently - already available, although there's no mention of this on the SEF website 9which hasn't been updated for over a year!)

[Skaran]

SE Finecasts pricelist hasn't been updated since 1 November 2013 either.

[Thane of Fife]

It will be interesting if SEF produce some of the NuCast range.

 

They have improved the old Wills range greatly over the years.

 

The SEF etched chassis that I have built are among the best. 

 

I also like the SEF policy of selling parts separately, which is a boon for those of us who want to produce different versions of the locos supplied, or even scratchbuild.

 

However, I am not going to hold my breath as there was rumour that Millholme models were going to be revamped, but I've heard nothing.

 

Thane of Fife