Sarn (Montgomeryshire) and Nantcwmdu (South Wales) plus Montgomery Town in 7mm

[NCB]

On 05/05/2020 at 22:02, Mrs Durby said:

 It was commonly said in pre-Grouping days that if you saw two coaches in a Cambrian train which were the same colour green you won a free prize! 

 

I'd be surprised by this. The Cambrian's business was passenger traffic, particularly traffic from afar, and put a lot of trouble into its coaches. When Herbert Jones took over as Locomotive, Coach and Wagon superintendant, he and the general manager revamped the liveries of both coaches and wagons; appearance was clearly important. Painting was generally done at Oswestry and you'd expect consistent standards. Could be that with older coaches on minor duties the appearance deteriorated over time.

Nigel

[corneliuslundie]

Back on modelling (sorry), up the lane yesterday and today I was looking at the verges, which have changed a great deal in the last week. There is now a great deal of cow parsley and the grasses are running amok. I started thinking about how to model them and came to the conclusion that in anything less than 7 inch gauge it would be virtually impossible. Take the cow parsley. The main stems are perhaps 3 mm diameter and the stems carrying the flowers about 1 mm. The flowers are perhaps 5 mm maximum. These dimensions in 4mm/ft equate to 3/76, 1/76 and 5/76 mm, or something in the region of 1.5, 0.5 and 2.5 thou.

And the grass is similar, with stems only a couple of millimetres in diameter.

Both are up to 3 ft tall, so 12 mm.

It makes me wonder about the diameter of the material which is sold for static grass.

On a more seasonal note, I took a photo of one of the local ashes yesterday for our friend in Llangurig. It has a sycamore on each side. It is actually coming into leaf whereas others are still virtually bare.  The oaks, on the other hand, are all now green.

One the actual modelling front frustration. First, the tracklaying. I have realised that I have problems with turnout actuation. First, I forgot to insert the SMP tiebars before soldering the track, and secondly I cannot use my favoured home-make under-baseboard actuation mechanisms as in each case there is baseboard structure in the way. So the point motors will have to be surface mounted, though where I can possibly put one of the three needed on these two boards beats me at the moment. I'll report when I have worked out the solutions.

And more frustration with the RR van kit. I realised after soldering the axleguards and brake gear onto the chassis fret that I had put them all the wrong way up (don't ask). I have managed to get everything apart again and the next job is to clean all the parts up so I can start again.

But on a positive note, i have now laid all the track on the two boards and fitted most of the second layer of sleepers, covering the PCB ones. So the next stage is the cosmetic spike heads on each sleeper.

And even better, although it has taken a month, yesterday my order arrived from Alan Gibson. So I can now have another go at completing the chassis for the Cambian tank loco, and then the body.

I don't know what to say about Cambrian carriage livery. I think I had better ask Mr Price up at Traeth Mawr. On wagon livery obviously more research needed. Not that I intend painting another Cambrian van this week.

Keep safe.

Jonathan

 

[Simond]

Nice photos of scenic detail. 
 

impressionist modelling?

 

atb

Simon

 

[Mrs Durby]

On 09/05/2020 at 19:39, NCB said:

 

I'd be surprised by this. The Cambrian's business was passenger traffic, particularly traffic from afar, and put a lot of trouble into its coaches. When Herbert Jones took over as Locomotive, Coach and Wagon superintendant, he and the general manager revamped the liveries of both coaches and wagons; appearance was clearly important. Painting was generally done at Oswestry and you'd expect consistent standards. Could be that with older coaches on minor duties the appearance deteriorated over time.

Nigel

Please don't take my word for it, Nigel; this was a quote from the HMRS Cambrian Steward at the time - oh, some 20 years or so ago probably - and he'd had it from a relative or associate who'd worked on the line between the wars.  WW1 problems with paint supplies may have had something to do with it, or it may have had to do with skilled staff having 'left to join the colours', but there's ample b&w photographic evidence of a variety of tones within the plain green coaches around the time of the Grouping.  (I've been looking for an example for you but can't find CC Green's Cambrian Part 1 at the moment...)  

[steveNCB7754]

On 10/05/2020 at 20:45, corneliuslundie said:

Back on modelling (sorry), up the lane yesterday and today I was looking at the verges, which have changed a great deal in the last week. There is now a great deal of cow parsley and the grasses are running amok. I started thinking about how to model them and came to the conclusion that in anything less than 7 inch gauge it would be virtually impossible. Take the cow parsley. The main stems are perhaps 3 mm diameter and the stems carrying the flowers about 1 mm. The flowers are perhaps 5 mm maximum. These dimensions in 4mm/ft equate to 3/76, 1/76 and 5/76 mm, or something in the region of 1.5, 0.5 and 2.5 thou.

And the grass is similar, with stems only a couple of millimetres in diameter.

Both are up to 3 ft tall, so 12 mm.

It makes me wonder about the diameter of the material which is sold for static grass.

On a more seasonal note, I took a photo of one of the local ashes yesterday for our friend in Llangurig. It has a sycamore on each side. It is actually coming into leaf whereas others are still virtually bare.  The oaks, on the other hand, are all now green...

 

 

Great pictures.  I took some photos myself on my morning walk on Saturday, but I have hesitated to post them, for fear that all this was beginning to hijack your thread (or someone demanding that it all gets moved to a 'Scenery Reference Photos' thread).  As I looked at my subject trees, I was reminded of  a Monty Python sketch from way back; 'How To Recognise Different Trees From Quite A Long Way Away', "No. 1 the Larch (Photo Of A Larch Tree), The Larch, The Larch".

 

[corneliuslundie]

Here's one I made earlier.

I mentioned this brake van some time ago, but I didn't post a photo because the first attempt at varnishing it was a disaster. Fortunately, a coat of MattCote sorted things out. The only thing I am not sure about is the colour of the footboards. They are a dark "weathered wood" colour, but they seem to light. Any suggestions?

As I think I said earlier, the model is based on a photo of the Kerry branch train in Ric Green's "Cambrian Railways Album 2". The original van was one of those built in large numbers, but it was modified for parcels traffic in Cornwall. When it arrived in Wales I am not sure but a 1930 photo at Abermule means it is just right for Sarn. I used the very comprehensive article by John Lewis as a basis, plus instructions for two kits of the same prototype. The doors are guesswork, working from the photo mentioned above and another one posted in the GWR section on here. Another modeller gave his planked doors but I have assumed the type used on Iron Minks. Everything is scratch built except the castings for the buffers and axleboxes, and the wheels, the brake gear being cobbled up from bits of Microstrip and parts of plastic wagon brake gear I had in stock.

Meanwhile track laying continues, punctuated today by a repair to a book case which partly collapsed under the weight of railway books.

Jonathan

Edited May 12, 2020 by corneliuslundie
Typos and second photo

[corneliuslundie]

Work on the tank wagon is nearly complete. Just now a need to fill the many gaps where castings did not fit well even after filing etc. So no photo yet. Fitting the S&W couplings was a challenge as there is no floor and the chassis has diagonal members just where the couplings would normally be mounted.

The RR van is also proceeding slowly. An error was putting the floor in the body without thinking about the chassis which has various bits sticking up into the van. So holes have been carved laboriously in the floor and the two married up. Odd bits are being added, though one disappeared onto the floor and has not been seen since, so there are now two to make up from plastic sheet/strip. Also the bolt heads on the solebar will have to be added with bits of plasticard as they are etched as dimples on the right side rather than the back (to be fair the etches are very old and things have improved since). The design of the headstocks does not satisfy me either, and I shall be using some plastic to replace the etched bits the kit intended to be used.

So maybe some photos next week.

But it is the month of May, so . . . Taken on the 14th, and now even whiter.

Jonathan

[steveNCB7754]

22 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

But it is the month of May, so . . . Taken on the 14th, and now even whiter.

 

 

Very nice.

 

The 'May' is just emerging properly here now, but I am still watching to see whether the Ash and Oaks, which were unfortunately 'nipped' by the two frosts we had recently (burning all the emerging leaves and flowers on them), will recover and produce a new 'flush' of growth.

 

Anyway, here is a photo of an Ash on my walk, in case anyone needs a reference for making one...

 

Edited May 23, 2020 by steveNCB7754

[corneliuslundie]

That explains why quite a lot of the young bracken and various other plants in the verges have been looking rather brown and withered.

A nice tree as a prototype though, but in 4 mm probably a bit too tall for most layouts (1 ft?)

Jonathan

[steveNCB7754]

On 23/05/2020 at 15:12, corneliuslundie said:

That explains why quite a lot of the young bracken and various other plants in the verges have been looking rather brown and withered.

A nice tree as a prototype though, but in 4 mm probably a bit too tall for most layouts (1 ft?)

Jonathan

 

Just an update: the frost-affected Ash and Oak trees on my regular walk, are now coming into leaf.  Not sure if that is a result of new bud formation, but good to see nevertheless.

 

Steve

 

[corneliuslundie]

Time for an update.

First the Rhymney Railway van is complete, just awaiting painting. I managed to make substitute parts for the three little etched bits that went AWOL. And shortly before I thought I had finished it I realised that the bit in the instructions about soldering a piece of straight wire to the door catch referred to the vertical door fixing you can see on each right hand door. I am still not at all sure what the door catch itself should look like (third photo).  Looking at the photo blown up makes it evident that I need to have another go atg fixing the roof.

The tank wagon is also complete but still needs quite a bit if filling when  I can find a suitable filler.

The fist##rst photo is the other side of the May hedge I showed earlier. In the intervening two weeks or so (the second photo was taken on Saturday 30th May) the hedge had become absolutely covered in white blossom but by the end of the month it had virtually finished. So May (the bush) is well named.

The other change is that some of the fields nearest the town which earlier had sheep and lambs, but which had been empty for some time, have now been mowed for hay (second photo). This completely changes the colour of the landscape. Mind you I had already noticed that even the hedges and fields have been gradually changing colour as the flowers have changed and the leaves have all developed fully, passing through yellow to pale green to rich green, and sometimes from an early red colour to green. Although as I have commented before it is not possible in 4 mm to model the individual hedgerow plants (unless your name is Roye England) it is necessary to take note of the overall colour feel if one wants to set a layout at a particular time of year.

Which has started me thinking about what time of year I want for the Nanctcwmdu layout. I think I am going for June, when everything is green and before things start looking tired and parched. As the basis is a coal mining village there will not be so much countryside, but one board will have some country, and I fancy trying to fit in a small stream flowing through a steep sided valley, coming out of the backscene through a bridge under the road and disappearing off scene at the other end of the board under the running line. But this is an afterthought and i may have to carve the baseboard up a bit.

And on Nantcwmdu, the main track laying is complete and I am adding cosmetic spike heads to the sleepers, a long and fiddly job. So no photos yet.

Jonathan

Edited June 1, 2020 by corneliuslundie
Added comment

[steveNCB7754]

11 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

Time for an update.

 

... Although as I have commented before it is not possible in 4 mm to model the individual hedgerow plants (unless your name is Roye England) it is necessary to take note of the overall colour feel if one wants to set a layout at a particular time of year.

 

 

Talk of Roye England, reminds me to mention (perhaps to any younger viewers) that the countryside we see (and photograph) today, is naturally not the same as it was, at the time period we may have set out various layouts.

 

Rural and farming practices have changed over time and these changes affect the way the countryside looks (it didn't get to look that way, by accident).  Crop types have changed (not many grow oats now, for example, and the yellow of an oilseed rape field would be unheard of -  although problems with Charlock could give a similar affect in badly affected fields).  Fields would also have been ploughed and tilled differently and sometimes, at different times of year than today.  Leaving 'fallow' fields was also common, whereas today's technology and techniques, allow all year round cropping to be achieved.  Classically, until the advent of the combine, wheat remained 'stooked' in the field, before it was brought in to be processed into grain and straw.  Over time, the size of straw bales has increased, from the originals which one person could lift, to the giant 'Hestons' of today and silage is now prominent in the countryside in large plastic-wrapped stacks, instead being mostly closeted in on-farm pits.

 

Hedges would have been more widespread and 'laid' by hand -  the use of tractor-mounted hedge trimmers/flails, did not come into regular use until long after WW2.  Woods and copse would have been managed differently and even hedgerow trees would have been more abundant and 'managed' for both fodder and timber.  As someone born in Warwickshire back in the 1950's, I can still remember seeing Elm trees in hedgerows, as far as the eye could see -  another visual clue to 'place', which has gone.

 

More roads are now tarmacked and, of course, road signs and street furniture has changed.  On the farm again, livestock has changed -  the introduction of Friesian cows for dairy (replacing native breeds, often dual-purpose ones such as the Shorthorn), the way breeding changed the size of animals (witness the change of the Angus, from a short breed (almost as small as the Dexter), to a giant, and back down again to today's stock).  Making silage (including the use of Maize), instead of just hay and the sheer number of people involved on the land -  I could go on.

 

Suffice to say, there is a wealth of information out there, if you know where to look.  At least we, as modellers, can avoid those film 'continuity' moments, where someone says, 'that car wasn't built when you say your layout ran', or 'if your layout is set in [insert name of county here], why have you laid that (model) hedge [insert name of entirely different county] style?'.  Remember though, 'no one likes a smart-arse'.  :-)

 

Anyway, too much time and so much to do...

 

Steve

 

 

 

[corneliuslundie]

I have been modelling but nothing really for here. I have posted in the GWR thread about trying to construct a D&S bogie parcels van. All I have done on the layout is continue adding small bits of plastic about 20 x 30 x 10 thou to the sleepers to represent the heads of the track spikes. But several hundred to go. I am though beginning to think about construction of the bridge across the railway at the left hand end of the station - the station building is based on that at Bedlinog with the road entrance on the upper floor. I may already have shown the part built station building a few years ago.

The scene here has completely changed. Fields where hay has been cut have been rolled etc and are already green again. Most of the sheep have been shorn - though many have been replaced by cows!  The trees have all darkened considerably in colour. And the council or its contractor has been around mowing the verges which were full of beautiful grasses and flowers. And there are more people about, though the hot weather yesterday seems to have been too much for a lot of them.

Jonathan

[steveNCB7754]

19 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

 

The scene here has completely changed...

 

Same here (naturally).  Silage fields have been closed off to livestock and await a suitable length of growth.  Shearing is underway and a friend's son and his mate have more offers of shearing work than they can handle, thanks to the absence of visiting overseas shearers (mainly Kiwis and Aussies of course).  All trees are fully out now and I saw the first Honeysuckle flowers out in the hedges yesterday, destined to become 'Old Man's Beard' come the Autumn.  The birds have quietened down a bit now and was lucky to see a Spotted Woodpecker in a tree very close to the road on my walk -  whether it had got bolder due to the lock-down, or was drawn to my natural charm, I will leave others to decide ;-)

 

In the village (and, indeed, in many a hamlet and settlement hereabouts), numerous DIY and building projects are underway -  by the time all this is over, everyone will be competing in the 'Best Kept Village' competition!

 

Steve

 

 

[corneliuslundie]

Some work has been done on the Nantcwmdu layout, specifically on the centre board which has the station platform and the goods shed. As at Bedlinog the line is crossed by a road bridge at the end of the platform and the station is entered from the road at first floor, with the platform at the lower level. 

I have been constructing the foundations for the bridge, embankment and raised section of ground at the back of the layout which will be the main street.

The next stage is to build the bridge properly and clad the structure in stone etc. Then I can start on the row of houses, shops and a chapel along the back, which i think will be at 3.5 mm/ft.

I have a feeling that the two buildings featured in this thread several years ago.

The goods yard is largely on the board to the right, and on the board to the left there is the end of the loop and a junction for the colliery line which rises while the main line drops.

On the rolling stock front, now I have more or less defeated the GWR K4 kit I have started on a GWR twin tank gas wagon (a David Geen kit) and a freelance carriage for the colliery line based on an  etch I bought years ago at a show. It appears to be for a GER Holden period 4-wheeled third. It will be "interesting" as I have no instructions or castings and a few bits if the etch are missing. 

Anyway, a photo of that centre board.

Jonathan

Edited July 7, 2020 by corneliuslundie
Typos of course

[corneliuslundie]

Time for an update. I will do it in four posts so that the photos are with the relevant text.

First Nantcwmdu. I have been working on the retaining walls and started on the bridge. The girders will me one of the next things. But a question. What would the road surface in the village have been like in 1912? And what about on the ramp? I am thinking about cobbles for the road but is that too posh? And I think they would be too slippery for the ramp. Suggestions please.

Now I can start planning the buildings along the back. At the right hand end of this board I intend to have a model based on a small chapel near here, the former Welsh Presbyterian chapel in Milford Road if anyone knows it. There is planned to be a second, larger, chapel on the next board more or less facing the station building – which I really must finish. I have “Capeli – Chapels” by Tim Rushton (y Lolfa) and “Welsh Chapels” by Anthony Jones (NMGW) for inspiration (though the photo claimed to be of the Milford Road chapel in the former book is a different chapel).

[corneliuslundie]

Ready for painting is a Dan Pinnock kit for a GWR Diagram K4 parcels van. I have really struggled with this. The instruction were very basic and sometimes I could not tell which part was being talked about, especially with the bogies I soldered as much as I felt able but attaching the footboards has been a nightmare as there is very little contact area. In fact one of the centre ones came adrift when I moved the chassis to photograph it. And I know that the handrails are wrong, as I misunderstood which holes were which. The instructions were really rather basic. Missing were the door handles, so I bought a sheet of etched ones which will also serve for my Rhymney carriages. One good feature – if it eventually works – is the tabs on the inner window etches to hold the glazing. But I am not confident even now that the bogies can rotate sufficiently to go round even mild curves. And it will challenge my painting abilities. I think GWR lake will be suitable for 1912 but then there is the lining!

[corneliuslundie]

Being painted since the photo was taken is this David Geen kit for a GWR Diagram DD5 gas tank wagon. Again the instructions left me with an awful lot of questions, but mainly because the kit allows for so many options of brakes etc. The second photo shows the bits left over. I opted for No. 9 because I could understand the brakes – hand brakes controlled by a brake wheel on the end platform, though I had to scratch build the brake column and wheel. Even then I had to omit the linkage from the brake wheel to the brakes because the S&W couplings are in the way.

It went together fairly easily except that I misread the instructions and fixed the tanks too early, before I had drilled holes for the fixings in the centre bolsters. One result was that I broke four small drills before the kit was complete. I am not happy about the straps which hold down the tanks as it was impossible to get them tight, the folded over bits at the ends, through which pass the small pins, being just too bulky.

The brake wheel was fun – seven holes drilled in a piece of brass sheet which was then filed to a roughly 5 mm circle. It probably should have spokes but I cannot find a photo and I didn’t want to buy a sheet of etched handwheels specially.

At least painting and lettering will be easy!

[Donw]

I dont seem to have been keeping up with farming today. We lived by the Thames when I was a young boy with farmland just along the fotpath, but it was when working as a rural postman in the 70s around Much Wenlock that I really got to know farming folk. There was quite a mixture of tradditional ways and new ideas.  They had a saying Oak before Ash and we'll have a splash, Ash before Oak and we'll have a soak. At least it shows that which came into leaf first was variable from year to year.  The fields behind us have been left this year the farmer said it was too sodden  after a very wet winter and followed by a very dry spring so by the time the soggy bits had dried enough the drier bits were too hard. It is very thick clay which gets very sticky when wet and dries hard with huge cracks in the summer heat.

The hedges round our patch have a lot of Elm any that gets left to grow up will get so far and then succumb to the disease. Kept as a hedge is seems to be ok.

Nice modelling too

 

Don 

[corneliuslundie]

Modelling continues slowly and I am now adding transfers to some vehicles, so pictures this month hopefully. Also, work continues slowly on the infrastructure at the back of the Nantcwmdu baseboard. I shall soon have to decide what buildings, other than a chapel, to have there.

But for today I thought it worth commenting on how the colours of the countryside have changed since my earliest photos.

For example, back in May I posted a photo of an ash. Here is a photo of the same tree last week.

 

 

And I also posted a photo of an oak on the lane in early spring. Here is the same tree now:

 

Much darker.

And already we noticed yesterday that some of the trees are shedding their leaves and others are going yellow.

The other big change is the disappearance of most of the sheep from the lower fields. I don't know whether they have gone to the Aberystwyth to the seaside or to Snowdonia! And most of the fields have provided at least one crop of hay, they been yellow/brown for a while before returning to bright green.

Meanwhile the hedgerows have also changed as the earlier flowers have disappeared and bracken, bindweed, brambles etc have become rampant, though still honeysuckle in some places and lots of minutes yellow and mauve flowers. And some of the grasses have been really beautiful.

I feel that we tend to ignore these temporal changes in our modelling, where it always seems to be high summer (so we can run an extensive bank holiday train service?) but probably most of the countryside is too light in colour for August.

Another thing I had not seen in previous places I lived in, because they were mostly areas of arable farming,  was fields of cows with a resident bull. There are at least two near here.

Of course if you are modelling modern image mid Wales you can also have the odd alpaca, Merino sheep and Balwen sheep, all to be seen within walking distance of Newtown. But to tell the truth, modelling the Cambrian main line in 2020 doesn't really appeal: two class 158s in TfW livery would be the only rolling stock needed other than the occasional night time engineering train hauled by a NW yellow class 37, and a train every hour or so wouldn't really be a crowd puller at exhibitions.

Jonathan

Edited August 9, 2020 by corneliuslundie
adding photos in order

[ChrisN]

Jonathan,

My understanding of bulls in cow fields is that it depends on the area.  I know the byelaws in Somerset allow it as they think it calms the bull down.  The field opposite my sons on the edge of Brighton and I saw a bull in there once, just before Lockdown.  I am not sure what happens elsewhere if they let the bull out or bring the cows to him, but I think a lot of farmers use the AI man.

 

My mum's family farmed in Hertfordshire and I am fairly certain they kept the bull in a yard.

[corneliuslundie]

I realise I was perhaps unfair to the Cambrian main line. The Class 97s are ERTMS fitted  and are able to operate at any time with engineering trains, and at night there have been Colas powered engineering trains, as shown by Big Jim on his thread.

[NCB]

On 09/08/2020 at 14:11, ChrisN said:

Jonathan,

My understanding of bulls in cow fields is that it depends on the area.  I know the byelaws in Somerset allow it as they think it calms the bull down.  The field opposite my sons on the edge of Brighton and I saw a bull in there once, just before Lockdown.  I am not sure what happens elsewhere if they let the bull out or bring the cows to him, but I think a lot of farmers use the AI man.

 

My mum's family farmed in Hertfordshire and I am fairly certain they kept the bull in a yard.

 

Certainly used to be dependent on area. Not sure it is now. As I understand it, bulls should never be on their own or with dairy cows in fields with public access. It appears to be OK to have a bull as part of a beef cattle herd.

 

I'm often up near Pumlumon, where there's a Highland cattle herd usually including a bull. They're often on the road which passes through the area. Interesting if you're a cyclist or in an open-top car!

 

Nigel

[corneliuslundie]

A correction. The sheep I mentioned are not Welsh, they are  Dutch, of the very similar looking Zwatrbles, Today they were all sheltering from the sun (except one of course!). I don't blame them.

A little more modelling done but nothing to photograph yet.

Jonathan

 

[Simond]

On 10/08/2020 at 20:23, NCB said:

 

Certainly used to be dependent on area. Not sure it is now. As I understand it, bulls should never be on their own or with dairy cows in fields with public access. It appears to be OK to have a bull as part of a beef cattle herd.

 

I'm often up near Pumlumon, where there's a Highland cattle herd usually including a bull. They're often on the road which passes through the area. Interesting if you're a cyclist or in an open-top car!

 

Nigel

 

as part of the beef cattle herd, perchance said bulls are short of 2/3 of their dangly bits, and thus rather less aggressive?

 

not much call for bulls or geldings in a milk herd...

 

atb

Simon