Jump to content
 

LNER Models in 4mm


micklner
 Share

Recommended Posts

Guest TomTank

superb thread Mick, I'm loving your work, as I did on the old RMweb

 

The kingfisher model looks fantastic, have you thought about uploading some pics to the gallery of your

LNER beauties! ;)

 

Best

 

Tom

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Made a start on the 247 Developments LNER TPO sides today. Remainder of TPO will be MJT parts

 

247 Etch

 

post-7186-12588986497318_thumb.jpg

 

Two pictures of the side etches soldered together

 

post-7186-12588986673549_thumb.jpg

 

post-7186-12588986779933_thumb.jpg

 

MJT basic floorpan

 

post-7186-12588986879661_thumb.jpg

 

The sides come with no instructions . Many thanks to Mozzer for his assistance in figuring out what goes where.rolleyes.gif blink.gif

 

Mick

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

ISTR I asked Gary that at Leeds and yes, they are. Mick's got them in his hand, of course, but my inclination would be to go for these over the Peter K ones as I believe the latter are dimensionally challenged somewhere.

 

You won't be surprised to hear that I have a pair in the 'to build' pile....

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

They are both Diagram 215 . I had the Peter K ones and ebayed them. The Peter K version ends are wrong handed and too low. The etches are very thin and poor quality.

The 247 version are ten times better quality, the only problem is no ends. I am using MJT Suburban ends "face in" as the panelling is different from normal coaches due to the gangway being to one side. I will make the panel lines from plastic rod. One advantage is that they are a good fit to the MJT roof I am using for this build.

 

Mick

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Pigeon van now fitted with replacement etched footboards using spare from the MJT floorpan etch for the TPO. Not that clear in the photo but it has improved the look tremendously. You can also see the Teak coloured solebar !!.

 

 

 

post-7186-12597742225702_thumb.jpg

 

 

The first of the Silver Jubilee set are now finished , I am very pleased how they have turned out.The next two coaches C & D will be next year ,as I have been informed their are problems with the floor etch which will not be sorted until January.

 

post-7186-12597743754987_thumb.jpg

 

post-7186-12597743944765_thumb.jpg

 

post-7186-12597744037941_thumb.jpg

 

post-7186-12597744148996_thumb.jpg

 

Progress with the TPO, the net side has been a challenge !! the sides are slightly too short when made up. I had to juggle the gaps on each piece to stretch the length about 2mm .

I have been making the roof today using a MJT roof and have found the net section of the side is about 1mm too high for the roof curve . It appeared too high to me when folded up and this has confirmed my suspicions . Its shame its not a couple of mm wider which would make it much easier to get the whole side to correct length as well. In the photos its sitting on its bogies.

MJT Underframe tomorrow and roof details fitted then painting in due course.

 

post-7186-12597748052643_thumb.jpg

 

post-7186-12597748173075_thumb.jpg

 

post-7186-12597748285718_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

Mick biggrin.gif

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking good Mick,

 

I hope my Silver Jubillee coaches turn out as well as yours. I may try the etched brass step board on my Chivers van - very useful stuff the MJT etch I have some longish lengths stashed from the Brake third that I have yet to finish.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Some pictures of the TPO being "teaked" first a base coat of Precision's Teak Base Cream paint then a thin coat of Weathered Teak with a small drops of Matt Black and Golden Teak added to the surface and then blended into the Teak paint as the grain is produced.

 

post-7186-12606338878978_thumb.jpg

 

post-7186-12606338984994_thumb.jpg

 

A shot of the underframe including two dynamos

 

post-7186-12606339084814_thumb.jpg

 

Mick

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Some pictures of the TPO being "teaked" first a base coat of Precision's Teak Base Cream paint then a thin coat of Weathered Teak with a small drops of Matt Black and Golden Teak added to the surface and then blended into the Teak paint as the grain is produced.

 

post-7186-12606338878978_thumb.jpg

 

post-7186-12606338984994_thumb.jpg

 

A shot of the underframe including two dynamos

 

post-7186-12606339084814_thumb.jpg

 

Mick

 

is the Silver Jubilee Marcmodels. If so I understand he's thinking of a Twin open thirds or is it firsts for the West Riding. Maroon ones would suit me for the talisman. Great thread by the way...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

is the Silver Jubilee Marcmodels. If so I understand he's thinking of a Twin open thirds or is it firsts for the West Riding. Maroon ones would suit me for the talisman.

 

 

They are by Bleathwood Models a new producer. They come with the valance attached only so are only suitable for 1930's stock.

 

cheers

 

 

Mick

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

A few things to update since my last post

 

TPO most of which is now lined

 

post-7186-1262016312653_thumb.jpg

 

post-7186-12620163297759_thumb.jpg

 

post-7186-12620179896507_thumb.jpg

 

post-7186-12620163556988_thumb.jpg

 

Next a couple of D&S NBR 16ton Mineral wagons . The first one I used a photo in the current MRJ as a rough painting guide its in avery tired post war livery photo has paint date on the solebar as 1946

 

 

post-7186-12620164783018_thumb.jpg

 

Another pre 1937 livery as in the original Tatlow LNER Wagons Book

 

post-7186-12620165581224_thumb.jpg

 

Another of my old builds a NB J37 this had a bent coupling rod and both oil drives broken and a what I thought was a dead ECM motor sitting in the kits supplied whitemetal cradle (see below). It sounded when it worked like a bag of spanners due to poor motor setup. This I have replaced with a Mashima 1020 and a High Level box turned around so thet it fits inside the body and is invisible. I have replaced the rods with Gibson Universal rods and scratched new lubricator drives. The chassis has not been weathered to match the loco so far. NB Models were contacted but they had no spares for the kit which is now withdrawn.

 

post-7186-12620170904908_thumb.jpg

 

post-7186-1262017101719_thumb.jpg

post-7186-12620171142519_thumb.jpg

 

post-7186-1262017142096_thumb.jpg

 

 

Lastly my ebay bargain Hornby NRM A3 renamed/renumbered as Salmon Trout the drain cock has been straightened since the photos !! Sorry re blurry picture and the dust now removed as well!!

 

post-7186-12620173556664_thumb.jpg

 

post-7186-1262017366606_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

 

Re dead motors, on the old RM Web I mentioned I had a number of Anchoridge motors fail after a few seconds of running. I thought no more of it and started to replace with Mashimas etc. It was only when the Hornby A3 above displayed the same problems I finally realised what was wrong the Gaugemaster Controller I used only for running in Locos was duff!!. A expensive mistake on my behalf so I recomend always check with other controllers when a motor dies !! Gaugemaster have now repaired the duff one without charge very good service.

 

Mick

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

A few things to update since my last post

 

TPO most of which is now lined

 

post-7186-1262016312653_thumb.jpg

 

post-7186-12620163297759_thumb.jpg

 

post-7186-12620179896507_thumb.jpg

 

post-7186-12620163556988_thumb.jpg

 

Next a couple of D&S NBR Jubilee wagons first one I used a photo in the current MRJ as a rough painting guide its in avery tired post war livery photo has paint date on the solebar as 1946

 

 

post-7186-12620164783018_thumb.jpg

 

Another pre 1937 livery as in the original Tatlow LNER Wagons Book

 

post-7186-12620165581224_thumb.jpg

 

Another of my old builds a NB J37 this had a bent coupling rod and both oil drives broken and a what I thought was a dead ECM motor sitting in the kits supplied whitemetal cradle (see below). It sounded when it worked like a bag of spanners due to poor motor setup. This I have replaced with a Mashima 1020 and a High Level box turned around so thet it fits inside the body and is invisible. I have replaced the rods with Gibson Universal rods and scratched new lubricator drives. The chassis has not been weathered to match the loco so far. NB Models were contacted but they had no spares for the kit which is now withdrawn.

 

post-7186-12620170904908_thumb.jpg

 

post-7186-1262017101719_thumb.jpg

post-7186-12620171142519_thumb.jpg

 

post-7186-1262017142096_thumb.jpg

 

 

Lastly my ebay bargain Hornby NRM A3 renamed/renumbered as Salmon Trout the drain cock has been straightened since the photos !!

 

post-7186-12620173556664_thumb.jpg

 

post-7186-1262017366606_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

 

Re dead motors, on the old RM Web I mentioned I had a number of Anchoridge motors fail after a few seconds of running. I thought no more of it and started to replace with Mashimas etc. It was only when the Hornby A3 above displayed the same problems I finally realised what was wrong the Gaugemaster Controller I used only for running in Locos was duff!!. A expensive mistake on my behalf so I recomend always check with other controllers when a motor dies !! Gaugemaster have now repaired the duff one without charge very good service.

 

Mick

 

A3's in any livery are so handsome......................

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Next a couple of D&S NBR 16ton Mineral wagons . The first one I used a photo in the current MRJ as a rough painting guide its in avery tired post war livery photo has paint date on the solebar as 1946

 

 

post-7186-12620164783018_thumb.jpg

 

Another pre 1937 livery as in the original Tatlow LNER Wagons Book

 

post-7186-12620165581224_thumb.jpg

 

 

I see you use the solebar plate transfers from the Slaters hopper kits as well! I find these to be very useful items: with a little weathering you can't really notice that the number isn't the same as on the bodyside.smile.gif

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

In my youth LNER brown coach livery was just that, darkish brown. The same, more or less that that house doors window frames and the like were painted in those days. Totally without character. Certainly all the pre-grouping coaches that I recall were the same dark muddy brown. It was only the mainline stock that was different. Those were always in the varnished teak livery, but even that looked dirty brown after a few years in service. The Thomoson teak livery (painted) certainly brightened things up for a while.

 

As an aside I normally use precision LNER Teak paint for my models but to be honest with myself I have often thought that this was a degree lighter than reality.

 

2512SilverFox[Nick Campling]

Originally the brown paint was mixed to a constituent recipe in dustbins, and therefore, like the wagon colours, was not exactly consistent. The paint was also matt and given one or more coats of varnish. From the late 30's contractor mixed gloss paint was used which was not so hardy but cut down the time in the paint shop. It can be seen therefore that the colours would have varied greatly during the 20's and 30's and since varnish was applied over a matt paint, the varnish darkened with age as well. There is one well known Colour Rail transparency of an A3 with a horsebox behind it in which the horsebox appears to be 'dark chocolate.'

 

 

 

Apologies for something of a thread hijack but I've only just seen these earlier comments, and they've sparked some questions.

 

In my "to do" pile are a couple of Ratio ex LNWR coach kits . These are intended for a 1950s GE branch terminus that a small group I'm involved with are vaguely intending to build. I had discovered some of these reached the LNER and ER via the M&GN and ended up in brown . In the absence of a convenient supply of LNER or pregroup GE coach kits, I acquired a couple of the Ratio kits on the cheap when a local model shop was closing down.

 

What colour brown they should be painted has been a stumbling block. I had acquired a tin of Precision Pullman umber and LNER teak and was contemplating an undercoat of umber with the teak on top as an approximate brown . Would this produce something passable??

 

 

Coachman

Posted 12 November 2009 - 17:31

 

As you might expect, a thoroughly absorbing topic to me. I too would love to see what the NPCCS LNER brown looked like. Was it similar in shade to the stuff the LNE brushed over the coaches it bought from other railways such as LMS ex Mildland Clerestory's used on M&GN lines?

 

Larry G.

 

I know about ex LNW stock acquired by the LNER through the M&GN in 1936. But ex MR clerestories??? Ears prick up because in a box I have a Ratio MR clerestory built when I were a lad 20 odd years ago , and the last time I tackled a coach kit.

 

I should be able to clean it up a bit and revive it so - if the LNER acquired any in 1936 , and if they survived on the GE Section past 1948 (big ifs, these)

I could do a repaint into brown.

 

Its New Year and with 3 days at my disposal [cue shot of Tony Robinson running across a large field] something could be done about it as a quick fix/ resuscitation. If I get the Model Strip on tonight , I could start work in the New Year....

 

I'd be grateful for any clarification / further info - in normal circumstances I'm a modern image modeller and my sole relevant reference is a copy of Harris' LNER Carriages, which , obviously is no use for this sort of question

Link to post
Share on other sites

Never heard of LNWR stock on the LNER . 51L Models sell Midland Clerestory Bogie Coaches that were taken over by the LNER via the NBR . As usual its your model and your choice.

I presume these are Suburban Stock ? if yes I would spray a light coat of Halfords grey or white primer . Then paint Prescision LNER Coach Teak unlined perhaps with a drop of white as they would probably be faded post war or go the other way and add black to darken up if you want them weathered.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The ones I'm certain of are ex LNWR 50' corridor coaches , of the type covered by the Ratio kit ,which from a discussion long ago I learned were transferred to the M&GN in the early 30s and therefore ended up with the LNER after the 1936 takeover. The previous discussion (RMWeb 3 or even 2) indicated at least one or two survived in brown into the early 50s - I think there was a reference to one at S.Lynn circa 1952 (possibly courtesy of Buckjumper). Obviously , as non-teak stock they would have been brown. I think the thread in question (2 years ago or more) was about how late brown coaches survived on the ER , and the consensus seemed to be that pregrouping coaches never receieved BR livery at all and continued to be repainted brown under BR until withdrawal in the earlier 1950s

 

That was good enough for me to acquire 2 Ratio kits. I've not got round to building them - the last 2 years have been earmarked as "the year of the coach kit" and it hasn't happened. Now I'm onto NewYear's resolutions for 2010 and "must try harder".....

 

However Coachmann mentioned ex MR clerestories acquired by the LNER via the M&GN . That opens up a whole new angle - I wondered if there was any confusion or doubt about the type, or if the M&GN , and therefore after 1936 the LNER, actually acquired a number of types of pregrouping coaches built by LMS constituents . Certainly I'd assume that if Coachmann said MR clerestories , that's what he meant , and that he would know what he was talking about.

 

Just how much pregrouping coaching stock did the LMS transfer to the M&GN between 1923-36 and what types? As a modern image modeller normally , M&GN coaching stock pre 1936 , and who was responsible for designing and building it, is right outside my field of knowledge...

 

Never heard of LNWR stock on the LNER . 51L Models sell Midland Clerestory Bogie Coaches that were taken over by the LNER via the NBR . As usual its your model and your choice.

I presume these are Suburban Stock ? if yes I would spray a light coat of Halfords grey or white primer

 

The LNWR stock I've already mentioned - I've even been shown a photo of one still in LMS livery on the M&GN just before the war. I assume it would have recieved a brown repaint by 1947

 

But we now have a third group - MR clerestories , presumably ex Midland/NB Joint Stock , acquired after the M/NB coach pool was split up in the late 20s.

 

These presumably would be different from those depicted by the Ratio MR clerestory kits (the Ratio MR suburbans are arc roofed - the Ratio clerestory kits are non-corridor mainline stock from I think 1898) - if they were the same , 51L would not have done another kit...

 

Just how many ex LMS coaches , of what types, did the LNER end up with????

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry I have no idea. In case your comments get limited reading may I suggest a seperate thread on here. You may also find help on the LNER study group sites. Bill Bedford is on the LNER Encylcopedia site as is very knowlegeable as well as Coachman on here.

Re 51L coaches they maybe a range taken over from another source?? I have never seen one but they list a few on their site. Is nice toknow there are some sources for pre grouping LNER coaches other than the old D&S kits.

 

cheers

 

Mick

Link to post
Share on other sites

As you say, Ravenser, I'm sure we had this discussion on the old RMWeb (or an old RMWeb at least). There were both Midland and LNWR coaches in M & GN stock and they went to the LNER in 1936. I was looking at a photo today of a Midland corridor clerestory in M&GN livery and there are others if I dig around. There's a fairly recent book on the M & GN which has photos you'll probably find useful. I was flicking through it at the Leeds show.

 

The 51L coaches were from the Chowbent range, I believe.

 

The stock did include a number of Great Eastern coach types just like the ones I built last year (on my workbench thread) and available from Worsley Works or Bill Bedford.

 

Livery would certainly have been brown - the LNER didn't bother trying to strip paint from coaches once they'd been painted, they just painted them brown. There's a thread on the LNER forum somewhere about the shade - Dan Pinnock says it was close to Humbrol 133, some photos show it very close to Humbrol 186, Coachmann reckons Precision Track Dirt (I haven't tried that one yet). I've used Triumph Russett Brown on NPCS which looks on the dark side of the range, as does Precision 62 (Coach Teak).

 

As with all things East Anglian, Buckjumper probably has the most comprehensive answers.

 

Mick - I meant to say something complimentary a couple of days ago when you posted these pictures. TPO is a top job. Have you thought of making the lights work? I do like the A3 as well.

 

Did you see my note on the LNER forum about 51L doing a Jubilee kit next (still next) year?

  • Funny 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of the 51L range are the former PC Models brass Midland Clerestories and the instructions do state that some of them became LNER via the M&GN stock. There are four different coaches in the range I currently have a couple one of them partially built that following Jonathan's recent build I am going to change the way I have done it. I have replaced the rather flimsy plastic roof sections with Brass (I hasten to add the 51L versions come with a wooden roof, one of my kit's is the original PC models version that I picked up from ebay some time ago). Andrew Hartshorne (Wizard/51L) kindly supplied me with the missing parts to complete it but I chose not to get a wooden roof).

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Mick,

 

and all the LNER experts on this thread. A great place to learn. happy new year too.

 

Great looking stock you have there Mick.

 

How did you get on with Fox transfers about the Silver Jubilee '1' & '3' for coach doors? I am interested in some as they don't come with the Fox Transfer. An option might be to use any remaining small numbers on the sheet, but really these are a little too small.

 

My Silver Jubilee with 2512 Silver Fox was in the Readers layouts section of the October issue of BRM, did you see it? I have improved a few things on it since the photo was taken, adding curtains and roof vents and improving running qualities. I don't recall the Mailcoach set having the correct vents for the Kitchen car, but will check and maybe have a go at making some.

 

I think I may have asked you previously about the High Level gearbox, if you did please excuse my forgetfulness, could you tell me where you get them from? I am in Australia.

 

Good to learn of yours and others methods of painting teak. Have a chivers kit, a full brake to build and paint and will probably buy some more coaches this year (2010). Maybe even the TPO.

 

I also am planning a trip to the old dart in Apr/May 2011 and hope to see some good qaulity layouts, not to mention adding some purchases to the list.

 

regards

 

Mark

Link to post
Share on other sites

[

Mick - I meant to say something complimentary a couple of days ago when you posted these pictures. TPO is a top job. Have you thought of making the lights work? I do like the A3 as well.

 

Did you see my note on the LNER forum about 51L doing a Jubilee kit next (still next) year?

 

 

Lights? no I wont be trying that . I dont run my stock in the dark and sounds a bit fiddly as well!! The BRM article on the TPO tried to light his with mixed results from the text.

 

Jubilees yes I have seen the note . I may do a few more in due course.

 

thanks

 

Mick

Link to post
Share on other sites

How did you get on with Fox transfers about the Silver Jubilee '1' & '3' for coach doors? I am interested in some as they don't come with the Fox Transfer. An option might be to use any remaining small numbers on the sheet, but really these are a little too small.

 

I am using the Fox Coronation Set . Fox when contacted admitted their mistake on the Jubilee sheet there are probably enough "3"s its the "1"s which are short on the sheet.

 

My Silver Jubilee with 2512 Silver Fox was in the Readers layouts section of the October issue of BRM, did you see it? I have improved a few things on it since the photo was taken, adding curtains and roof vents and improving running qualities. I don't recall the Mailcoach set having the correct vents for the Kitchen car, but will check and maybe have a go at making some.

 

Sorry never saw the article . Post some pictures on a thread would be good

 

I think I may have asked you previously about the High Level gearbox, if you did please excuse my forgetfulness, could you tell me where you get them from? I am in Australia.

 

Search for High Level Models. I do not know if he does sales abroad. Let me know if you have any problems

 

cheers

 

Mick

Link to post
Share on other sites

Only just come by this discussion on LNWR and MR going to the LNER (M&GN). The former Midland clerestories were were to MR D598 lot 752 50ft 3-compartment corridor thirds with an open saloon at one end. Some were merely re-lettered M&GN while others were given a brush over with LNER brown paint before being re lettered. Example numbers were 99 and 81012. They used to be available as etched zink sides from Trevor Charlton.

 

Twelve of these semi-open saloons were transferred to the M&GN in March 1936. Later they were given LNER numbers and "livery" although still lettered M&GN. Some lasted until 1955 having by then acquired new numbers alloted by BR.

 

Derek L. and I built & painted quite a few of these coaches (4mm) from Charlton parts in the 1980's, mostly in full panelled LMS livery with M&GN insignia, and a very few in LNE brown livery.

 

Going off my old pencil written notes, Nos .99 and 95 were electrically lit, while No. 99 was destroyed by enemy action in 1945.

 

Hope this is of use.

 

Larry G.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...