Mid-Cornwall Lines - 1950s Western Region in 00

[kandc_au]

Rich, the pins are for pivoting the switch blades at the tiebar end. I thought about the single-rail approach but a good friend and expert track builder has recommended that I should use loose heels. Having never built a slip before I'm going to follow this advice and see how it goes.

Are there any diagrams online showing this method please?

 

Khris

[St Enodoc]

Are there any diagrams online showing this method please?

 

Khris

Khris, have a look at this:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/27187-connecting-handmade-turnouts-to-point-motor/&do=findComment&comment=282362

 

Essentially, you insert a pin from underneath the stretcher/tiebar, bend it at 90 degrees and trim it to length, then solder it to the inside face of the switch blade.

 

As I progress with the build I'll post some photos.

[St Enodoc]

After shopping yesterday (proper shopping - at the model shop, the bottle shop and the electronics shop - not boring stuff like food or clothes), but before the rugby, I mounted the train describer on the wall.

 

 

I had to fix the bracket to one of the wall studs and the one nearer the door was too difficult to reach, so it's further from the end wall than I would have liked. I'll adjust the final position, possibly swinging the arms round so that the screen hides the bracket, after the next running session when we have had a chance to see how well it works. I won't put the shelf up until after that either, so the cables will stay where they are for the time being. Once everything is finalised they will go into a conduit like the cab buses at the point control panels.

 

Comparing these two photos with those I took last weekend shows how bare St Enodoc looks with no trains on it. For fun, I also set the train describer to show the Up Limited this time.

 

The rugby itself was interesting, not least for the contrast between the two games. Australia v Italy was dire (no surprises there), with both teams seemingly trying to see which could play worse than the other. New Zealand v the Lions, on the other hand, was full of passion, commitment and lots of blood and thunder - yet with hardly a moment of ill-discipline. Great stuff. The Lions' first try brought the Barbarians v New Zealand, Cardiff, 1973 to mind.

 

Later on I started the double slip. I began by following the sequence of construction suggested in an old Scalefour Digest that I got when I was a member in the 1980s. The two vees went in first, using the jig, which made positioning them a piece of cake. Next was the first stock rail, with a set at each end and a smooth curve joining them. Apart from the bits opposite the vees, the stock rail is only tacked in one place since I expect to make a few changes to this first attempt at a slip.

 

Next was the first elbow. I aligned this using the straight Tracksetta with the elbow itself exactly equidistant between the two vees (which means that it is fractionally off the centre of timber 18. I'm not going to worry about that). I then added the wing rails, although I might take these out again until both elbows are in place so that I can use the Tracksetta for the other elbow.

 

The elbow looks fine but having seen the assembly in the flesh for the first time I'm a bit worried about having enough room to build up the loose heel joints and also get an electrical connection to the switch blades without soldering the whole lot up solid. Consequently, I'm going to try flexible switches in the first instance. A dry run with a bit of rail held in place two timbers away from the elbow suggests that this won't be significantly stiffer than a standard turnout so, with Norman Solomon-style pinned joints at the tiebar, I think I might get away with it.

 

After all that, I heeded Zebedee's call and decided that it was indeed time for bed.

Edited July 20, 2023 by St Enodoc
images restored

[St Enodoc]

Back on the workbench today, the first thing I did was to remove the wing rails and elbows from the double slip.

 

I cut two pieces of rail the right length to form the two sets of "outer" switches, each comprising a pair of flexible switches with the elbow in the middle. I fitted these in place without too much trouble. The flexible length of each switch is about 55 mm.

 

Next came the closure rails. I filed a 1 in 6 angle on the ends of each of these, in the same way as for a vee. Like the elbows, the closure rails don't quite line up with the timbers. I think this might be due to distortion when photocopying the template. Next time I'll timber up the vees, then the elbows, then just fill in the gaps working outwards from the middle. The closure rails are cut short where the insulating gaps will be (marked in red).

 

The vees went back in next. I think I should have fitted these before the closure rails as it would have been easier to align them with a longer "tail" on each one, as I generally do for ordinary points. Anyway, they seem to be all right.

 

All the way through the build I looked frequently along the two straight roads to check the alignment of the various bits before going to the next stage.

 

The two slip roads were straightforward and so were the check rails at the vees. However, the elbow check rails were a bit tricky, mostly due to the lack of space. I squeezed them in using the wing rail gauge but my test wagon was a bit bumpy as it crossed the elbows. I think the check rails might be too short. I'll see how things go when I do a proper test after fitting the tiebars.

 

So, how did it all go? Except for the elbow check rails, very well. Even filing four pairs of blades wasn't too bad. All the rails are in place now  and I will have a go at the tiebars next weekend. In the meantime, any comments or constructive suggestions would, as always, be welcome.

Edited July 20, 2023 by St Enodoc
images restored

[The Fatadder]

Very nice, will be very pleased if I get mine to the same standard today.

[St Enodoc]

This weekend turned out to be quite productive.

 

Yesterday was our monthly BRMA Sydney group meeting, hosted by RodneyV of this parish, which took the form of a workshop led by myself on removing numbers and logos from trains and replacing them with new ones. About eight members came along, and everyone had a go - including some who had never renumbered anything before. I was very happy as it gave me the chance to renumber some coaches and also make a start on renumbering a Bachmann N class 2-6-0. The coaches (four Hornby and one Bachmann Colletts) were all fine but on the N, as with Kernow's O2, the Pressfix numbers were slightly different in shade and size from those applied by the manufacturer. Consequently, instead of just changing one digit I removed all five on each side. After tea we had a short play on Rodney's Radford layout - see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/114026-radford/.

 

When I got home I applied new Pressfix transfers (so 31843 is now 31849) and while I was in the mood I replaced the remaining three original numbers on each side of 30200. All that was after watching New Zealand and the Lions from wet and windy (what's new?) Wellington.

 

Today I went back to the double slip. After a bit of fettling round the elbows, to get the various gaps the right size to allow wheels to pass through without bumping or binding, pushing a wagon across the elbows was much smoother so I moved on to the tiebars.

 

At each end of the slip there are two tiebars, making four in total. To avoid soldering everything up solid I decided to use a non-solderable material for them - namely North Eastern H0 3" x 12" stripwood, which works out at about 0.9 mm x 3.5 mm in real life.

 

First I bent the brass lace pins to shape. The short part next to the head should be just long enough to go through the tiebar and sit between the foot and web of the rail, although the dimensions are not critical.

 

 

I marked out the tiebars direct from the rails, not by measuring, and drilled them with a no 70 drill, which is about 0.7 mm in diameter. This lets the pins, which are about 0.6 mm diameter, pass through the tiebar after they have been bent but minimises the amount of slop.

 

After shortening the pins, I fed the tiebar under the rails of the slip so that the pins were next to their two corresponding switch rails. I found that my usual SMP sleeper spacers, being 1.2 mm thick, didn't leave enough room between the tips so I used pieces of the tiebar stripwood as spacers instead. There is still enough clearance for the wheels. After lining everything up I held the tiebar in place using Blu-Tak and soldered the pins to the rails.

 

I have to say that this was very simple so, subject to the slip operating satisfactorily once it is installed, I might well use timber tiebars for all my points in future.

 

 

I worked along the point from one end to the other until all four tiebars were in place.

 

The "wagon push test" was fine so next weekend I will gap the timbers and join a yard of track to each leg of the slip. This will let me give the slip a thorough work-out in all four directions - albeit with no motors at this stage. I have an idea for how to operate the slip with two motors instead of four, which will save about $50 a go. Watch this space.

Edited July 20, 2023 by St Enodoc
images restored

[aussiebrfan]

This weekend turned out to be quite productive.

 

Yesterday was our monthly BRMA Sydney group meeting, hosted by RodneyV of this parish, which took the form of a workshop led by myself on removing numbers and logos from trains and replacing them with new ones. About eight members came along, and everyone had a go - including some who had never renumbered anything before. I was very happy as it gave me the chance to renumber some coaches and also make a start on renumbering a Bachmann N class 2-6-0. The coaches (four Hornby and one Bachmann Colletts) were all fine but on the N, as with Kernow's O2, the Pressfix numbers were slightly different in shade and size from those applied by the manufacturer. Consequently, instead of just changing one digit I removed all five on each side. After tea we had a short play on Rodney's Radford layout - see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/114026-radford/.

 

When I got home I applied new Pressfix transfers (so 31843 is now 31849) and while I was in the mood I replaced the remaining three original numbers on each side of 30200. All that was after watching New Zealand and the Lions from wet and windy (what's new?) Wellington.

 

Today I went back to the double slip. After a bit of fettling round the elbows, to get the various gaps the right size to allow wheels to pass through without bumping or binding, pushing a wagon across the elbows was much smoother so I moved on to the tiebars.

 

At each end of the slip there are two tiebars, making four in total. To avoid soldering everything up solid I decided to use a non-solderable material for them - namely North Eastern H0 3" x 12" stripwood, which works out at about 0.9 mm x 3.5 mm in real life.

 

20170702 001 double slip construction 6 pins.JPG

First I bent the brass lace pins to shape. The short part next to the head should be just long enough to go through the tiebar and sit between the foot and web of the rail, although the dimensions are not critical.

 

20170702 002 double slip construction 7 pins in tiebar.JPG

 

20170702 003 double slip construction 8 pins in tiebar.JPG

I marked out the tiebars direct from the rails, not by measuring, and drilled them with a no 70 drill, which is about 0.7 mm in diameter. This lets the pins, which are about 0.6 mm diameter, pass through the tiebar after they have been bent but minimises the amount of slop.

 

20170702 005 double slip construction 10 one tiebar.JPG

After shortening the pins, I fed the tiebar under the rails of the slip so that the pins were next to their two corresponding switch rails. I found that my usual SMP sleeper spacers, being 1.2 mm thick, didn't leave enough room between the tips so I used pieces of the tiebar stripwood as spacers instead. There is still enough clearance for the wheels. After lining everything up I held the tiebar in place using Blu-Tak and soldered the pins to the rails.

 

I have to say that this was very simple so, subject to the slip operating satisfactorily once it is installed, I might well use timber tiebars for all my points in future.

 

20170702 006 double slip construction 11 two tiebars.JPG

 

20170702 007 double slip construction 12 four tiebars.JPG

I worked along the point from one end to the other until all four tiebars were in place.

 

The "wagon push test" was fine so next weekend I will gap the timbers and join a yard of track to each leg of the slip. This will let me give the slip a thorough work-out in all four directions - albeit with no motors at this stage. I have an idea for how to operate the slip with two motors instead of four, which will save about $50 a go. Watch this space.

 

 

Looking very good,

 

Regards G

[5BarVT]

I have an idea for how to operate the slip with two motors instead of four, which will save about $50 a go. Watch this space.

In theory (!) you only need one motor. The double compound (slip to non WR people) in the Minehead bay at Taunton West Station box was worked off one lever. The two positions were 'crossing' or 'slip': complicated mechanically as the two tiebars at each end move in opposite directions.

Perfectly possible to work with two motors: getting both toes to make up at the same time will be the fun part.

 

I have been really enjoying following your stories. Many thanks, Paul.

[The Fatadder]

In theory (!) you only need one motor. The double compound (slip to non WR people) in the Minehead bay at Taunton West Station box was worked off one lever. The two positions were 'crossing' or 'slip': complicated mechanically as the two tiebars at each end move in opposite directions.

Perfectly possible to work with two motors: getting both toes to make up at the same time will be the fun part.

 

I have been really enjoying following your stories. Many thanks, Paul.

 

It wasn't too difficult to get both driven off one motor, though I have already had a tiebar fail so time will tell how effective it is in use.  I used cigarette paper between the switch rail and outer rail then soldered in the closed position.  Starting with the inner rails (which set the distance for movement, then locked closed and added the second rail on that side, before setting the slip in the opposite direction and soldering the final rail.  

The tricky bit was not soldering the whole thing solid (and getting the soldering iron in the gap between the two inner switch rails (which naturally were the ones which failed on me.)

 

All in all I am quite pleased with the whole set up, though I am now thinking that drilling and pinning the switch to the copperclad strip would have been a useful reinforcement.

[St Enodoc]

In theory (!) you only need one motor. The double compound (slip to non WR people) in the Minehead bay at Taunton West Station box was worked off one lever. The two positions were 'crossing' or 'slip': complicated mechanically as the two tiebars at each end move in opposite directions.

Perfectly possible to work with two motors: getting both toes to make up at the same time will be the fun part.

 

I have been really enjoying following your stories. Many thanks, Paul.

Thanks Paul. That arrangement at Minehead Taunton sounds like the old Fleischmann H0 double slip, which had a sliding lever at the side that moved all eights switches at the same time (see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/94350-mid-cornwall-lines-1950s-western-region-in-00/page-1&do=findComment&comment=1727920, where the first photo shows the train crossing such a beast).

 

In my case each end of the slip/compound will be worked off a single lever. I'm investigating how to make a simple linkage so that both tiebars at the same end can be driven by one motor.

 

Edited after reading Paul's post again - properly this time.

Edited July 6, 2017 by St Enodoc

[St Enodoc]

It wasn't too difficult to get both driven off one motor, though I have already had a tiebar fail so time will tell how effective it is in use.  I used cigarette paper between the switch rail and outer rail then soldered in the closed position.  Starting with the inner rails (which set the distance for movement, then locked closed and added the second rail on that side, before setting the slip in the opposite direction and soldering the final rail.  

The tricky bit was not soldering the whole thing solid (and getting the soldering iron in the gap between the two inner switch rails (which naturally were the ones which failed on me.)

 

All in all I am quite pleased with the whole set up, though I am now thinking that drilling and pinning the switch to the copperclad strip would have been a useful reinforcement.

Rich, what you describe is how I have built ordinary points in the past, with the switches soldered direct to the tiebar. The only difference is that I use baking paper rather than cigarette paper.

 

For the slip, the two challenges were a) getting at everything without soldering it up solid, as you have said, and b) reducing the load on the motor(s). That's why I used wooden tiebars and why I followed my mentor's advice to use two tiebars at each end and to pin the switches to the tiebars. However, I've ignored his advice so far on using loose-heeled switches. I hope that doesn't come back to bite me.

[The Fatadder]

Rich, what you describe is how I have built ordinary points in the past, with the switches soldered direct to the tiebar. The only difference is that I use baking paper rather than cigarette paper.

 

For the slip, the two challenges were a) getting at everything without soldering it up solid, as you have said, and b) reducing the load on the motor(s). That's why I used wooden tiebars and why I followed my mentor's advice to use two tiebars at each end and to pin the switches to the tiebars. However, I've ignored his advice so far on using loose-heeled switches. I hope that doesn't come back to bite me.

Useful to know re the baking paper, I am almost through the packet of papers "acquired" from a housemate at uni who smoked.  Good to be able to substitute something which is actually around the house when I do eventually run out. 

 

What are you using for point motors on these?  the Tortoise (correctly set up) doesn't seem to have an issue with the single tie bar, but again I guess time will tell (and the Mid Cornwall Lines will no doubt see much more intensive operation than my Brent.  I did seriously consider the loose heeled switches for mine having received the same advice, and again rejected it (probably foolishly given my lack of scratch building track experience.)  we shall see/

[kandc_au]

John,

Once you sent a basic pic of what you meant about the hinge, I followed what you were talking about.

I have done my DS with just the 2 tiebars (1 each end)

I have used steel track pins that I filed the paint off of so that they could be soldered rather than  brass pins as I was worried the brass wouldn't be long lasting in the longer term. 

I also use Copperclad for the tiebars. (Using copperclad you need to remember to cut the copper on the underneath as well you obviously realise how I know that   )

To space the gap of the blades I do 1 pair and then the other using the same thickness item (offcut of copperclad 1.06) as the spacer. So what you have is one blade against the rail and the other corresponding blade has the spacer of copperclad. I then use another piece of copperclad as the second space required for the other side.

Hope this all makes sense!

Given I am a electrical heathen, up until now I have used slide switches.

This time around I will be trying a method of leavers from a central point and rods and cranks as I saw used on Youtube.    

The guy also used micro switches to control the power to the track.

 

hope  this is of help.

 

Khris

[St Enodoc]

Useful to know re the baking paper, I am almost through the packet of papers "acquired" from a housemate at uni who smoked.  Good to be able to substitute something which is actually around the house when I do eventually run out. 

 

What are you using for point motors on these?  the Tortoise (correctly set up) doesn't seem to have an issue with the single tie bar, but again I guess time will tell (and the Mid Cornwall Lines will no doubt see much more intensive operation than my Brent.  I did seriously consider the loose heeled switches for mine having received the same advice, and again rejected it (probably foolishly given my lack of scratch building track experience.)  we shall see/

Rich, when I was at Uni people who used cigarette paper tended to have something other than tobacco rolled up in it...

 

I will be using either Tortoises or Cobalts. I'm still evaluating one of each on the Down Goods Loop. As always, I'll report back.

[St Enodoc]

John,

Once you sent a basic pic of what you meant about the hinge, I followed what you were talking about.

I have done my DS with just the 2 tiebars (1 each end)

I have used steel track pins that I filed the paint off of so that they could be soldered rather than  brass pins as I was worried the brass wouldn't be long lasting in the longer term. 

I also use Copperclad for the tiebars. (Using copperclad you need to remember to cut the copper on the underneath as well you obviously realise how I know that   )

To space the gap of the blades I do 1 pair and then the other using the same thickness item (offcut of copperclad 1.06) as the spacer. So what you have is one blade against the rail and the other corresponding blade has the spacer of copperclad. I then use another piece of copperclad as the second space required for the other side.

Hope this all makes sense!

Given I am a electrical heathen, up until now I have used slide switches.

This time around I will be trying a method of leavers from a central point and rods and cranks as I saw used on Youtube.    

The guy also used micro switches to control the power to the track.

 

hope  this is of help.

 

Khris

Thanks Khris. That all makes perfect sense. I'm going to stick with the four-tiebar version for now and see how it goes. I thought about copperclad tiebars but was worried about soldering in the tips area with so little space to play with. We'll see how well the timber tiebars go as well.

 

As you will have seen I will be using levers too, in the Modratec frame, but they will operate electrical switches so the points (and signals) themselves will be driven electrically.

 

Interesting video - thanks.

[islandbridgejct]

 

20170702 006 double slip construction 11 two tiebars.JPG

 

20170702 007 double slip construction 12 four tiebars.JPG

 

 

 

John,

 

Just looking at your tiebar arrangement, and the location of the blades in a neutral position (with none of them acting against their respective stock rails), is there a risk that, when the tiebars are worked in opposition to one another, that the respective blades within the crossing area may come into contact? That is to say, if you pull A and push B, or vice versa, do the blades make contact? They seem quite close. (You're probably way ahead of me on this, and have already checked.)

 

Best wishes,

 

Alan

[St Enodoc]

John,

 

Just looking at your tiebar arrangement, and the location of the blades in a neutral position (with none of them acting against their respective stock rails), is there a risk that, when the tiebars are worked in opposition to one another, that the respective blades within the crossing area may come into contact? That is to say, if you pull A and push B, or vice versa, do the blades make contact? They seem quite close. (You're probably way ahead of me on this, and have already checked.)

 

Best wishes,

 

Alan

Alan, yes that would certainly be true but tiebars A and B will always move in the same direction at the same time (as will C and D). In some cases this was not so (see 5BarVT's post above) but I'm not planning any like that for my layout. Watch this space for the linkage I have in mind to drive two tiebars with a single motor.

 

With the dimensions I use, the closure rails need to be just over 5 mm apart where the switch tips are. This means that the tips are about one timber further from the vees (and of course one closer to the elbows) than on the original template.

 

If this first attempt works satisfactorily, I will build a second taking the lessons of the first into account - not least adjusting the timber positions and the elbow check rails. I will then see how they look next to each other before deciding whether to keep the first or build a third to take its place. Again, watch this space.

[St Enodoc]

All's right with the world again - Proper Job back on tap at the Sherlock Holmes.

[St Enodoc]

All's right with the world again - Proper Job back on tap at the Sherlock Holmes.

As a matter of interest, how much would a pint of Proper Job cost in Cornwall or England? Mine last night were AUD 11.20 each which at today's exchange rate is about GBP 6.50. Slightly more expensive than a pint of a local craft beer such as Furphy's.

[acg5324]

Probably around £4-£4.50 a pint. Managed to get two pints of Black Sheep for £6 in Leeds on Saturday.....bargain.

[The Fatadder]

As a matter of interest, how much would a pint of Proper Job cost in Cornwall or England? Mine last night were AUD 11.20 each which at today's exchange rate is about GBP 6.50. Slightly more expensive than a pint of a local craft beer such as Furphy's.

In Bristol 6.50 sounds about what I was paying in Clifton last week, a lot less in Devon at the weekend though!

[Barry O]

In Bristol 6.50 sounds about what I was paying in Clifton last week, a lot less in Devon at the weekend though!

HOW MUCH????

 

lummy it is still about £3..05 for a pint of hand pulled beer in the Original Oak...no longer Tetleys though!

 

Baz

[St Enodoc]

HOW MUCH????

 

lummy it is still about £3..05 for a pint of hand pulled beer in the Original Oak...no longer Tetleys though!

 

Baz

I don't think it was hand-pulled 40 years ago - those funny two-way electric pumps are what I seem to remember.

[Barry O]

Downstairs bar had a hand pump but the locals didn't like students drinking in there

 

Baz

[St Enodoc]

Downstairs bar had a hand pump but the locals didn't like students drinking in there

 

Baz

Or model railway people either...

 

I remember a big outcry when a pint went up to 32p.