Mid-Cornwall Lines - 1950s Western Region in 00

[Stoker]

I spent some time putting together a 3D model of Wheal Rose dry. It isn't 100% accurate, I had to fill in a lot of blanks because there really aren't any photographs online. However I did manage to find some aerial photos from 1930 which gave me an idea of what was where roughly. The model file is in Sketchup Make 2017 which is a free program, so if you download that and install it, I can send you the file and you should be able to view it. The model is built to scale, so you can just use the ruler function to measure anything you need.






The model also has a full interior, so should you wish to include this in the model it's there.





The furnace end has a small coal platform that was loaded from the Wheal Virgin air dry/Boss Allen's timber wharf siding, which curved off to run 90 degrees perpendicular to Wheal Rose.

As it stands, a scale model of this dry including the coal platform and settling tanks would be approx 106cm (frontage) x 60cm (front of linhay to back of settling tanks). If you cannot fit this in, I could come up with a modified design that has the required compression, I would just need to know the exact space it has to fit into.

If anyone else would like a copy of this 3D file, please let me know via PM and I'll email it over.

Regards,

Scott.

[TrevorP1]

That's impressive Scott. For the location of my layout I considered briefly the section of main line passing the Blackpool dries at Burngullow but I couldn't make it fit in any sensible way in the space I have. I've settled on Grampound road as a location and I'm content with that.

 

I have some spare boards from previous project that would be criminal not to use for something... so maybe a diorama one day... I must get Grampound Road to a sensible state first! 

[Stoker]

Blackpool is huge. Including the Cornish Kaolin and Methrose sidings, it's a half mile long. At one time there were 7 dryers in the complex (1 Spray dryer, 2 Buell dryers, and 4 rotary dryers) which had a total maximum production capacity of 500,000 tons per annum, roughly a quarter of the industry's peak output.

There was a chap at St Austell Model Railway Club, Tony Prideaux, who built a near full size model of Blackpool dryers. The layout had to be in it's own room because it was so huge.

[St Enodoc]

Today I wired up the whole of Penzance Up end and the first section of plain track on loops 2 to 7. That's probably about a third of the Penzance wiring done now, so another two sessions - or one if I can get a long one in (ooer missus...) - will see the job done.

 

While I was away last week the plates for 6824 (and for D601) arrived, so I also found time to change the identity of the old 6825 to 6824 and to fit out the new 6825 ready for service. 6824 needed a new decoder, as the plan was to transfer the old, ready-programmed, one to the new 6825. NCE have stopped making most of their decoders with an 8-pin plug and harness, which is a shame, so I fitted and programmed a TCS DP2X-UK instead. It just (only just) went through the slot in the bottom of the boiler.

 

Last week I mentioned that the new 6825 has a semi-permanently attached tender. When I looked more closely, I realised why - the decoder socket is now in the tender not the loco. If I'd realised that sooner, I probably would have fitted the new TCS decoder into 6825, left the old NCE one in 6824 and reprogrammed it. No matter - everything's done now and once I put 6825 together again it will be ready for use too.

 

Finally for today, a birthday present from my grandchildren arrived, slightly late, last week:

 

I think that it's rather wonderful. I'm not sure where No 2 daughter bought it from but the label says "Home Living by Juliana". If you fancy one for yourself, or for your own Grandad, go to www.julianahomeliving.com (usual disclaimer).

Edited July 18, 2023 by St Enodoc
images restored

[Clive Mortimore]

18 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Today I wired up the whole of Penzance Up end and the first section of plain track on loops 2 to 7. That's probably about a third of the Penzance wiring done now, so another two sessions - or one if I can get a long one in (ooer missus...) - will see the job done.

 

While I was away last week the plates for 6824 (and for D601) arrived, so I also found time to change the identity of the old 6825 to 6824 and to fit out the new 6825 ready for service. 6824 needed a new decoder, as the plan was to transfer the old, ready-programmed, one to the new 6825. NCE have stopped making most of their decoders with an 8-pin plug and harness, which is a shame, so I fitted and programmed a TCS DP2X-UK instead. It just (only just) went through the slot in the bottom of the boiler.

 

Last week I mentioned that the new 6825 has a semi-permanently attached tender. When I looked more closely, I realised why - the decoder socket is now in the tender not the loco. If I'd realised that sooner, I probably would have fitted the new TCS decoder into 6825, left the old NCE one in 6824 and reprogrammed it. No matter - everything's done now and once I put 6825 together again it will be ready for use too.

 

Finally for today, a birthday present from my grandchildren arrived, slightly late, last week:

 

I think that it's rather wonderful. I'm not sure where No 2 daughter bought it from but the label says "Home Living by Juliana". If you fancy one for yourself, or for your own Grandad, go to www.julianahomeliving.com (usual disclaimer).

Hi UDJ

 

What a lovely cushion. 

 

I am going to have look up the Grandad Relaxation Act, and see if applies to us who through no fault of our own are of Grandad age but remain only a dad.

[St Enodoc]

On 21/06/2019 at 15:43, Stoker said:

I spent some time putting together a 3D model of Wheal Rose dry. It isn't 100% accurate, I had to fill in a lot of blanks because there really aren't any photographs online. However I did manage to find some aerial photos from 1930 which gave me an idea of what was where roughly. The model file is in Sketchup Make 2017 which is a free program, so if you download that and install it, I can send you the file and you should be able to view it. The model is built to scale, so you can just use the ruler function to measure anything you need.






The model also has a full interior, so should you wish to include this in the model it's there.





The furnace end has a small coal platform that was loaded from the Wheal Virgin air dry/Boss Allen's timber wharf siding, which curved off to run 90 degrees perpendicular to Wheal Rose.

As it stands, a scale model of this dry including the coal platform and settling tanks would be approx 106cm (frontage) x 60cm (front of linhay to back of settling tanks). If you cannot fit this in, I could come up with a modified design that has the required compression, I would just need to know the exact space it has to fit into.

If anyone else would like a copy of this 3D file, please let me know via PM and I'll email it over.

Regards,

Scott.

Thanks Scott, that's most interesting although I think that it's a little too complex and certainly too big for what I want. I had in mind one of the more conventional pan dries, similar to, but smaller than, this one that I downloaded from your old blog:

 

There was also an article in the January 1965 Railway Modeller that gave me some initial ideas.

 

My existing model is about 18 inches long overall including the coal storage area and the chimney. I don't think I'll have room for anything bigger.

Edited July 18, 2023 by St Enodoc
images restored

[Bogie]

Didn't that Act get repealed when the UK joined the EU? 

 

Apparently the Act was considered discriminatory.

[Stoker]

16 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Thanks Scott, that's most interesting although I think that it's a little too complex and certainly too big for what I want. I had in mind one of the more conventional pan dries, similar to, but smaller than, this one that I downloaded from your old blog:

 

There was also an article in the January 1965 Railway Modeller that gave me some initial ideas.

 

My existing model is about 18 inches long overall including the coal storage area and the chimney. I don't think I'll have room for anything bigger.

 

Roger that, I'll see what I can come up with.

 

Would you be open to the suggestion of a loading wharf, with clay being trucked from a nearby kiln? If you have limited space and want a simpler smaller kiln, that arrangement would be more prototypical, and would allow for some nice scammel lorries. 

 

The trenance and goonbarrow branches both had small wharves fed by small kilns. Some of the kilns were just 100 feet long, which would be well within your target 18 inches. Although if it's sited away from the tracks with clay brought to the wharf by truck, you might be able to site it on a part of the layout that isn't as tight. 

Edited June 23, 2019 by Stoker
Autocorrect ruined everything

[St Enodoc]

14 minutes ago, Stoker said:

 

Roger that, I'll see what I can come up with.

 

Would you be open to the suggestion of a loading wharf, with clay being trucked from a nearby kiln? If you have limited space and want a simpler smaller kiln, that arrangement would be more prototypical, and would allow for some nice scammel lorries. 

 

The trenance and goonbarrow branches both had small wharves fed by small kilns. Some of the kilns were just 100 feet long, which would be well within your target 18 inches. Although if it's sited away from the tracks with clay brought to the wharf by truck, you might be able to site it on a part of the layout that isn't as tight. 

Thanks Scott. I definitely want a small rail-served dryer rather than just a loading wharf. I'd be interested in what you come up with and see how it compares with the RM article (which I can't post for copyright reasons unfortunately). I know exactly where it will be going on the layout but until that part gets built the final design will remain incomplete. If, in the end, it will fit I might just refurbish the existing model.

[Sharky]

 

On 20/06/2019 at 22:10, DougN said:

 

sharkie great to have you along as another here in Melbourne, I should ask do you know me? . I had been in the younger generation for years a minority. Ok I am now middle aged... but I have always been interested in the proportion of younger people coming into the hobby. St Enodoc is pointing out the number of people entering is  smaller than the number leaving. Hence a long decline. I started at the age of 14 or 15 getting into serious building... ok that makes me feel old...when the flying Scotsman was here in Australia. Ok you can figure out how old I am! In 20 years I will still be around but the number in BRMA may be reducing... I am also a member of a smaller group which is seriously declining and I don't think will last more than a couple of years. So join BRMA and generally you will always find me at a meeting or on the BRMA stand at an exhibition and have a chat. 

 

In the the long term I would like to think the number leaving and entering remains stationary so we can pass along skills between people! 

On 20/06/2019 at 22:43, St Enodoc said:

Doug, as you are both BRMA members you probably already know each other!

 

Yes Doug I know who are, not too many Doug's interested in UK Railways in the Melbourne. (At least not that I've come across...)
Unsurprisingly there are quite a few of us on here from BRMA, and it's only in the past few months have I started to become more active here, being on and off for the past few years.

 

But it is a shame that I'm one of handful of 'Under 30s' people in BRMA.
Most of my generation being interested in what runs around locally.
Can't blame them though; most of them like to model what they see, and most of it being able to be bought off the shelf makes that very achievable.
On that note, a large number of our members have said they'd model Aussie stuff they were starting out now, but nothing (or very little) was available when they were starting out in the hobby.

[DougN]

Yes the availability of VR and Australian RTR has increased massively. When I was in my teens there was BGM resin bodies for American mechanisms and PSM. I looked at the PSM's and thought I had to buy a car or a locomotive.... so the former won! By which stage I was interested in LNER steam. It was more affordable  with a larger variety. I still look at the VR gear for what it is but still stick with LNER and model building.  

[St Enodoc]

I did indeed manage a fairly long session today, at the end of which I've finished wiring up Penzance Down end, including the plain SMP track as far as the join with the Peco. All the Penzance loops are now fully operational, although not fully commissioned, as I have still to connect the three yards of Peco track in each loop to the Down bus (at the moment we are relying on the fishplates to pass the current) then make and fit the fouling point markers for each end of Penzance.

 

During hotel thinking time this week, I made a start on working out the track occupation at Paddington and Penzance for the full sequence. It looks as though there is plenty of room both for departing and arriving trains so I will carry on with the first draft, which I don't expect to survive contact with reality without a few changes along the way. That's still a fair way off as I now need to knuckle down and build the nine new points to complete Paddington.

 

We have a running session in three weeks' time, still using the existing sequence, but the additional tracks at Penzance will give a little more breathing space and avoid the need for one of the Down freight trains to run right past and reverse into its loop from the Down end. Propelling freight trains is always a bit nerve-wracking.

 

Finally, over the last week or two I've worked up the St Enodoc signalling diagram, once again with the invaluable help of Mike the Stationmaster. I now need to draw it up in SigScribe 4 so that I can place an order with Harold at Modratec for the St Enodoc signal box lever frame.

[5BarVT]

3 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Finally, over the last week or two I've worked up the St Enodoc signalling diagram, once again with the invaluable help of Mike the Stationmaster.

Where did you hide that? I would have interfered too! Mind you, with Mike’s input, it will be top notch. 

Paul.

[St Enodoc]

50 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

Where did you hide that? I would have interfered too! Mind you, with Mike’s input, it will be top notch. 

Paul.

Here you go Paul:

 

20190629 St Enodoc SB diagram v3.pdf

 

20190629 St Enodoc lever leads v3.xls

It didn't take too many iterations this time as it is quite closely based on Bugle with some rearrangement of the sidings, simplification of the Carbis branch and removal of the level crossing.

[5BarVT]

Nice!

I hadn't thought of a ring on a goods fixed distant.  That will be different if you have room to show it.

Lots of bell signals for Blocking Back Inside/Outside to use the LoS (if you're that way inclined). :-)

Paul.

[The Stationmaster]

This link might be of interest if you scroll down to my post of 2 January 2012 you will find, amazingly, a picture of signal 30/27 at St Enodoc (at that time cleverly disguised as Bugle.  and even further down something which - with the bracketed arm on the other side might offer inspiration for signal 10/9 and No.19 is also there - in full digital colour.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/48504-gwr-signals-and-where-they-go/page/4/

 

[St Enodoc]

21 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

Nice!

I hadn't thought of a ring on a goods fixed distant.  That will be different if you have room to show it.

Lots of bell signals for Blocking Back Inside/Outside to use the LoS (if you're that way inclined). :-)

Paul.

Thanks Paul. Yes, the ringed fixed distant will indeed be there. No bells though - they drive me nuts when you can hear the bells in every other signal box as well as the one you're working.

[St Enodoc]

35 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

This link might be of interest if you scroll down to my post of 2 January 2012 you will find, amazingly, a picture of signal 30/27 at St Enodoc (at that time cleverly disguised as Bugle.  and even further down something which - with the bracketed arm on the other side might offer inspiration for signal 10/9 and No.19 is also there - in full digital colour.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/48504-gwr-signals-and-where-they-go/page/4/

 

Thanks Mike. I downloaded and saved several of those photos when you first pointed me towards them!

 

Paul's original post made me stop and think, which is always dangerous. As we discussed, and as drawn, 17 and 19 read only to the Up Main but 23 disc reads to both the Up and Down Mains. I think I might put in an extra disc next to 17 to read to 23 and alter 18 disc to read both to the Down Siding and to 23. That will let me do all the running round and shunting for the clay branch without fouling the Up Main, which will be very busy. I was going to put this in our email conversation but I thought Paul (and possibly others) might like to comment too so I've put it here.

[5BarVT]

2 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

an extra disc next to 17

Which would have been so much easier had the spares been in the centre of the frame, not at one end! :-)

2 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

without fouling the Up Main, which will be very busy

Won’t the Down Main be equally busy, or is there a ‘train source’ at/beyond Treloggan Jn?  Even so, blocking one line rather than two when running round is always better. 

Paul. 

[Joseph_Pestell]

2 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Thanks Paul. Yes, the ringed fixed distant will indeed be there. No bells though - they drive me nuts when you can hear the bells in every other signal box as well as the one you're working.

 

Shall we call you Quasimodo?

 

But I agree, hearing other boxes' bells is distracting. Headphones is the answer.

[The Stationmaster]

6 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Thanks Mike. I downloaded and saved several of those photos when you first pointed me towards them!

 

Paul's original post made me stop and think, which is always dangerous. As we discussed, and as drawn, 17 and 19 read only to the Up Main but 23 disc reads to both the Up and Down Mains. I think I might put in an extra disc next to 17 to read to 23 and alter 18 disc to read both to the Down Siding and to 23. That will let me do all the running round and shunting for the clay branch without fouling the Up Main, which will be very busy. I was going to put this in our email conversation but I thought Paul (and possibly others) might like to comment too so I've put it here.

I think that's a sensible move as it gives a lot more flexibility (which is of course why you added the LoS in the first place) but think about this before you go too far with the alteration.  If you wish to stick to a reasonably common thread of contemporaneous standards then you shouldn't add a disc at 17 but you should put a second Backing Arm on that post.

 

And there's an easyish way with the renumbering -17  (BUT AS THE LOWER ARM) will read towards the LoS and and EITHER 3 working the upper of the two arms or far better  use 3 to renumber the existing 4,5,6  as 3. 4. 5 and use 6 for the upper arm on the Backing Signal.  I realise there'll be a bit of awkwardness in the locking tray because 24  23 will be the lead for the revised 6 (Backing Arm to Up Main) but you have the new 5 (formerly 6) already locking 24BW  and 15 BW  and the new 4 (formerly 5) locking 15 and 24 plus the reciprocals.  Doing it that way avoids a lot of renumbering higher up the frame and still gives reasonably sensible leads with no pulls between,  

 

(Not that pulls between on a Modratec frame are going to be as awkward as the one I came across at Cockcrow Hill on the Great Cockcrow Railway a few weeks back, grr)

[Martin S-C]

A question from a numpty - what does "LoS" stand for in signalling parlance? I only know the military acronym - Line of Sight.

[Nick C]

1 hour ago, Martin S-C said:

A question from a numpty - what does "LoS" stand for in signalling parlance? I only know the military acronym - Line of Sight.

Limit of shunt - i.e. the furthest you can shunt in that direction (usually the wrong way on a running line).

[St Enodoc]

10 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

Shall we call you Quasimodo?

 

But I agree, hearing other boxes' bells is distracting. Headphones is the answer.

Quasimodo is about right. The real answer is no bells. I don't need 'em so I won't have 'em...

[St Enodoc]

11 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

Which would have been so much easier had the spares been in the centre of the frame, not at one end! :-)

Won’t the Down Main be equally busy, or is there a ‘train source’ at/beyond Treloggan Jn?  Even so, blocking one line rather than two when running round is always better. 

Paul. 

 

6 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I think that's a sensible move as it gives a lot more flexibility (which is of course why you added the LoS in the first place) but think about this before you go too far with the alteration.  If you wish to stick to a reasonably common thread of contemporaneous standards then you shouldn't add a disc at 17 but you should put a second Backing Arm on that post.

 

And there's an easyish way with the renumbering -17  (BUT AS THE LOWER ARM) will read towards the LoS and and EITHER 3 working the upper of the two arms or far better  use 3 to renumber the existing 4,5,6  as 3. 4. 5 and use 6 for the upper arm on the Backing Signal.  I realise there'll be a bit of awkwardness in the locking tray because 24  23 will be the lead for the revised 6 (Backing Arm to Up Main) but you have the new 5 (formerly 6) already locking 24BW  and 15 BW  and the new 4 (formerly 5) locking 15 and 24 plus the reciprocals.  Doing it that way avoids a lot of renumbering higher up the frame and still gives reasonably sensible leads with no pulls between,  

 

(Not that pulls between on a Modratec frame are going to be as awkward as the one I came across at Cockcrow Hill on the Great Cockcrow Railway a few weeks back, grr)

Thanks gents.

 

Paul, yes both main lines will be busy which is why as you say I will try to minimise the number of times both are blocked at the same time. the only time that really needs to happen is when shunting the Down branch goods using the Up siding.

 

The spares are at one end to simplify the Modratec frame, where the levers come in blocks of 6. The levers might not even exist in reality - just a long space at one end of the frame (note that once the frame is built all the numbers will run the other way. They are numbered as they are at the moment because being a contrary type I like to build my Modratec frames back to front with the locking tucked away under the baseboard behind the levers and not in front - that saves a good deal of space in the operating area).

 

Mike, thanks for the idea of a two-armed backing signal - that will really get folk scratching their heads!

 

I'm on the road at the moment so can't work through your numbering suggestions in detail although I will do so. Renumbering isn't a problem with pencil and paper - it does become a hassle after I've transcribed the diagram into SigScribe for the Modratec interlocking design.

 

I always try to avoid pulling between and also try to limit the amount of walking up and down for the bobby. Wouldn't having the two backing signals as 6 and 17 rather go against that principle?

 

Got to go now as my flight to Melbourne has just been called...