Mid-Cornwall Lines - 1950s Western Region in 00

[The Fatadder]

18 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Hmm, my engineering training predates CAD. I'll have to get someone to convert my pencil drawing to .dxf too...

Happy to draw it up if needed, just send a photo of the drawing and let me know how many of them you would want on a sheet.

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, The Fatadder said:

Happy to draw it up if needed, just send a photo of the drawing and let me know how many of them you would want on a sheet.

That's a very kind offer, Rich, that I might very well take up. I'll see how I go with the pencil drawing first.

 

Thanks.

[St Enodoc]

Those of us in the Great Southern Land (other former colonies are available) know how hard, i.e. impossible, it is to get British railway paints. With the help of others, most recently @45568 of this parish, I've been trying to put together a list of equivalents that are available, either car paints and/or modelling paints.

 

So far we've come up with these. The ones marked with a star are those I use and am happy with; the others are possible alternatives that have been suggested:

 

GWR/BR loco green - Holts British Racing Green DSH74, Holts Racing Green DST58, Tamiya XF-26 Deep Green, Tamiya TS-9 British Green

BR coach crimson/carmine/blood - Holts Hermitage DSF43*, Holts Burgundy DSF68, Mr Hobby 81 Russet

BR maroon/LMS crimson lake - Holts Chianti Red DSC63*, Tamiya TS-11 Maroon

Roof grey - Tamiya XF-63 German Grey, Tamiya TS-4 German Grey, Tamiya TS-48 Gunship Grey

GWR light stone - Humbrol 84*, Humbrol 26

GWR dark stone - Humbrol 62*

BR wagon bauxite - Tamiya Fine Surface Finisher/Primer

BR wagon grey - Tamiya XF-53 Neutral Grey, Tamiya TS-32 Haze Grey (darker), Tamiya TS-81 Royal Light Grey (lighter)

 

Any comments or more suggestions welcome!

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

Thanks for the information about the paints, but 'Apple Green' eludes me, I can get the Acrylic one from Humbrol, but not a 'oil' based one........

 

manna 

[The Fatadder]

Do you have access to Vallejo acrlyic paints in Australia?

The below was posted on a Nod to Brent, 71 codes are ready to airbrush "Model Air" while the 70 codes are "Model Colour" and need thinning (but brush paint really well)

On 16/02/2020 at 18:32, toboldlygo said:

71.004 Red for the Buffer Beam's

71.042 Brown for GWR Brown - which I've used for Robin & Ben's Clerestory Stock.

71.047 & 71.048 (Greys) for freight.

71.053 & 71.054 (which are greys) for roof's

71.290 US Earth Brown for freight stock - I've used it on Bloaters & Beetles to great effect (also helps on touch ups on Hornby Chocolate & Cream Mk.1's)

71.324 BS Dark Green - this is a recent discovery, it's actually a good paint for touch up GWR Green (well one of the shades Hornby uses)

 

To which I would add 70.862 Black Grey which is a very good match for GWR wagon grey.  70.822 German Cam Black Brown is a good match for GW brown.

I tend to use a mix of 70.862 and 71.049 Sea Grey for coach roofs 

I have found 70.814 Burnt Red pretty good for GW droplights.

While there are mentions somewhere on the forum of good matches for light and dark stone (which I really  need to find as my Phoenix enamals have dried up!)

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, The Fatadder said:

Do you have access to Vallejo acrlyic paints in Australia?

The below was posted on a Nod to Brent, 71 codes are ready to airbrush "Model Air" while the 70 codes are "Model Colour" and need thinning (but brush paint really well)

 

To which I would add 70.862 Black Grey which is a very good match for GWR wagon grey.  70.822 German Cam Black Brown is a good match for GW brown.

I tend to use a mix of 70.862 and 71.049 Sea Grey for coach roofs 

I have found 70.814 Burnt Red pretty good for GW droplights.

While there are mentions somewhere on the forum of good matches for light and dark stone (which I really  need to find as my Phoenix enamals have dried up!)

Thanks Rich. Yes, we can get Vallejo in some shops.

[5BarVT]

11 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Hmm, my engineering training predates CAD. I'll have to get someone to convert my pencil drawing to .dxf too...

I recognise that feeling!

Paul.

[acg5324]

Is this of any use?

Humbrol paint conversion chart

 

its a PDF file....2nd page has the conversions to Tamiya, Lifecolor, Vallejo and others.

[St Enodoc]

5 hours ago, acg5324 said:

Is this of any use?

Humbrol paint conversion chart

 

its a PDF file....2nd page has the conversions to Tamiya, Lifecolor, Vallejo and others.

Thanks Andy. I've got an older version that doesn't have the rail colours, which I see are all acrylic not enamel. I'll print myself the updated version when I next have access to the A3 printer at the office.

 

We can get Humbrol here but not always the full range.

[St Enodoc]

On 12/05/2020 at 10:33, St Enodoc said:

That's a very kind offer, Rich, that I might very well take up. I'll see how I go with the pencil drawing first.

 

Thanks.

I was rummaging though a box of coach kits yesterday to find some Comet sides, which include a fret of etched droplights. The internal dimensions of these are 9.1mm high by 5.7mm wide. I estimate the radius of the corners to be about 0.5mm.

 

If these were laid out on a grid, say 15mm x 10mm, to fill an Evergreen 9010 sheet, which is 12" x 6", that would give me 300 droplights. Does that sound feasible?

 

Thanks.

[Barry O]

sounds a good idea. I have sent you a plastic sheet of 14 I found, I can't find my etched brass ones though.. the search continues!

 

baz

 

[St Enodoc]

On 13/05/2020 at 19:36, Barry O said:

sounds a good idea. I have sent you a plastic sheet of 14 I found, I can't find my etched brass ones though.. the search continues!

 

baz

 

Thanks Baz. I've just remembered which were the first etched brass droplight frames I ever used - the ones supplied by Colin Massingham with the 2-BIL kit.

Edited May 15, 2020 by St Enodoc

[St Enodoc]

I started the E147 tonight, by swapping the bogies and tidying up the underframe. I glued the broken trussing back together then added brake cross shafts between the V-hangers and a representation of the crank arms to the cylinders. I also fitted a dynamo. I don't think I'll do any more, other than possibly closing in the backs of the battery boxes, as I rather like the traditional BSL-style look of it all.

[St Enodoc]

Today I installed 13 of the 14 uncoupling electromagnets at Porthmellyn Road. Why only 13? Well, one of them went open-circuit when a wire emerging from the bobbin broke. When this happens, it's almost impossible to find the end and fix it so I've put that to one side for now. The bobbin will get re-used, possibly with some of the same wire, in due course. By close of play I'd connected the 13 magnets to the negative bus so tomorrow's job is to connect the positive feeds from the control panel.

 

I'll replace the broken coil with another from the old St Enodoc layout. There are two more, I think, that won't be needed on the new configuration so I'll remove one tomorrow and install it at Porthmellyn Road.

 

No photos today, as I've left lots of bits and pieces lying around. Once I've finished and tidied up I'll take some.

 

On the E147 front, I've decided that I won't bother closing the backs of the battery boxes, as they'll be virtually invisible when the coach is on the layout. I will, however, add some cross-pieces to the trusses to strengthen them against being squeezed inwards, which is probably what caused the earlier breakage. After that, gluing the body and roof back together will be next.

 

 

[St Enodoc]

I recovered the two extra electromagnet coils today and, as luck would have it, one of them also had a broken wire, so I used the good one as the replacement at Porthmellyn Road.

 

Once that was fitted I connected up the switched positive feeds to all 14 magnets. Sorry this photo is out of focus. I used the flash as there wasn't much light under the baseboard and of course the camera focused on the end of the panel mounting bracket, not the connectors.

 

Here are the two magnets at the entrance to the Up Sidings. You can see how the 6mm screws are cut off at sleeper level. They're only yellow because they came from the fiddle yard on the old layout where there was a bright yellow stripe at each magnet location. They'll get covered by ballast in due course.

 

Apologies in advance for these three. I got in close to take photos of the uncoupling process and ended up too close, which I didn't realise until I'd come back indoors.

 

This one shows the couplings in the normal coupled position, with one (sometimes both) loop engaged with the hook.

 

As long as the couplings are not in tension, energising the magnet pulls the droppers down and hence the loops rise, uncoupling the vehicles.

 

When the magnet is de-energised, the loops fall under gravity but rest on top of the delay latches, so the vehicles can be pushed to wherever they need to be left. Only after the vehicles are separated do the loops fall to the normal position ready for coupling again.

 

I'm glad to be able to cross another significant job of the list. The next biggie is to fit the viaduct guard rail brackets that I made nearly three years ago and then paint all the bits of track that either haven't been painted at all yet or need touching up. After that, ballasting! I like to ballast before I install signals as they get in the way otherwise.

Edited July 17, 2023 by St Enodoc
images restored

[Barry O]

we still use blobs of white paint next to the magnets on the "Club" layouts.

 

Baz

[St Enodoc]

57 minutes ago, Barry O said:

we still use blobs of white paint next to the magnets on the "Club" layouts.

 

Baz

Yes, once the ballasting is done I'll put a white patch on the rail. I'll probably use some other sort of marker as well, such as the old dodges like a shunter, a tuft of weeds, and so on.

[St Enodoc]

Back to the E147. I fixed the compartment end side, roof and end together with Kwik-Grip (Evo-Stik) tonight. This seems to have gone pretty well, although getting the thing to stick in three planes resulted in me doing the hand jive from Fleming's Left-Hand Rule while I got it all lined up. I noticed that the van end was showing early signs of incipient self-dismantling too, but as nothing had actually come apart yet I contented myself with a fillet of Multi-Grip (UHU) on the inside of the joints in question.

[St Enodoc]

Today was a non-work day so I spent some time on the layout.

 

Readers with long memories will remember the saga of the viaduct guard rail support brackets, which I cut out in my Melbourne hotel room about three years ago. Today I decided to fix these to the sleepers on the viaduct.

 

That didn't go well at all. After I'd fixed about a quarter of them, I realised that a) it was impossible to keep them in line as there was no time to adjust them before the plastic fix glue set and b) they weren't going to be strong enough to support the guard rail itself.

 

Over lunch, I had a think and decided to go for a different method that would be more representational but also more robust and easier to align. This will involve two lengths of bullhead rail in a T shape, the upright one soldered to copperclad sleepers at intervals along the viaduct. I don't think the continuous length of the supporting rail will be too obvious. I might add the little brackets as cosmetic fittings afterwards - it woudl be a shame to waste all the time, effort and frequent flyer miles that went into them.

 

So, the first job after slicing the plastic brackets off the sleepers was to cut away every fifth sleeper. Later I realised that an even number would have been better in the event that I decide to fit the cosmetic brackets, which go on alternate sleepers, but by then it was too late.

 

I added the new sleepers, soldered them in place and gapped them.

 

While I had all the tools out for replacing sleepers and timbers I made three dummy safety points (trap points) for Porthmellyn Road. Again, I cut away the sleepers and glued in the replacements for a GWR Type B single-tongued point. These are the two that protect the exit from the Chapel Sidings. There's another at the Up end of the station protecting the exit from No1 Spur.

 

I filed some dummy blades - just filing one side rather than front and back separately - and soldered them to the outside of the running rails. The blue pin marks where the disc, which applies to both sidings, will go and the white pins mark the uncouplers.

 

There is one more safety point to make but that can't go in until the branch is started.

 

Fabricating the guard rails and a little gauge to align them will be next, although I probably won't install them until I've ballasted the track across the viaduct.

 

Overall, one step back and two forward, which I must say is better than I thought it would be at lunchtime.

Edited July 17, 2023 by St Enodoc
images restored

[Stubby47]

Given that you've probably run a few trains over the viaduct without any issues, and that by adding any sort of guard rail is better than none, why do you think the support brackets you initially used would not be suitable ?

 

I accept that spacing them might be difficult, but a small jig/spacing piece of wood would help there.

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, Stubby47 said:

Given that you've probably run a few trains over the viaduct without any issues, and that by adding any sort of guard rail is better than none, why do you think the support brackets you initially used would not be suitable ?

 

I accept that spacing them might be difficult, but a small jig/spacing piece of wood would help there.

Thanks Stu. There are a couple of reasons. One is that, being individually cut and assembled, they are not quite all identical. This means that even with a jig I reckon they would be hard, but not impossible, to get aligned before the glue sets. The more important reason is that fixing the rail to the ledge on which it would sit almost certainly won't be strong enough with the rail needing to curve to a 40 foot radius. So, what I'm going to do is take the brackets out of the equation from a structural perspective and use the rail itself for that purpose. The brackets will (I've decided now) go on afterwards, after slight modification to remove the ledge, for cosmetic effect.

 

You are right of course about running lots of trains over the viaduct already without the guard rails. I should stress that they will purely for visual effect and will not have any functional role in the event of a derailment.

 

When it's all painted brown I don't think the difference will be noticeable enough to worry about. At eye-level they will be partially obscured by the viaduct railings and from a higher viewpoint the vertical support rail will be largely hidden by the horizontal top part.

[St Enodoc]

I made a new trial piece for the viaduct guard rail tonight, which I think went well.

 

First, I soldered two bits of rail together in the T shape and replaced a few plastic sleepers in an offcut of track with copperclad. I made the support rail shorter than the guard rail itself so that I could bend the running-on end of the guard rail down.

 

I was going to make a gauge from a small piece of PCB but then thought that perhaps my roller gauges would do - they did! Placing the roller gauges on the track and butting the guard rail up against the outer ends gave enough clearance from the running rail, so I soldered the guard rail base to the sleepers. The clearance is overscale, not only because of the narrow gauge but because of the inherent slop in 00 wheels. The inner edge of the guard rail is about 12mm from the track centre line, hence about 4mm from the running edge. In P4 this could come down to the scale 2mm because of the wider gauge and less allowance for slop. Nevertheless, I think it gives the right impression.

 

Finally, I trimmed half-a-dozen brackets to their new height and glued these to the plastic sleepers with All Plastic Fix and to the copperclad with UHU. Once the glues have cured fully Ill trim the bracket bases back to the sleeper ends and take a photo or two.

 

On the E147 front, having fitted Microstrip roof strips last night, I made a lamp bracket for each end using my usual steel staples. Apart from the droplight frames, all the repairs and extra detailing are done now. I'll reunite the body and chassis temporarily to fit the DG couplings then try the coach on the layout at the weekend before going any further.

 

I'm still not sure what number the coach will carry. Most E147s were built with close coupling at the inner end to run as B Sets but a few had full buffing and drawgear at both ends. Unfortunately, Harris, Russell and the article on www.gwr.org.uk are slightly ambiguous as to the exact numbers of the "singletons". I hope to get a clearer answer from the GWR elist soon, as eventually I'll have another two, and a non-corridor third, to replace the temporary Bachmann Mk1s in set 531.

[St Enodoc]

Looking at the viaduct guard rail trial piece again today, I thought that the gap between the running rail and the guard rail looked too wide, so I tried a different jig on the other side. This is just a piece of rail flat on its side, soldered to a couple of bits of copperclad that rest across the track so that the rail butts up against the outside of the running rail. The guard rail, in turn, butts up against the flat piece of rail.

 

This gave a gap of just under 2mm, which looks better but is still wider than scale due to the narrow track gauge. However, the guard rail is now almost the exact scale distance (a little over 11mm) from the track centre line. Based on the sample measurements of different wheelsets that I took on Tuesday, this should still be wide enough for trains to pass without fouling the guard rail. I'll try it on the layout over the weekend.

[St Enodoc]

I didn't do much train stuff today, as my picture-hanging skills(?) were in demand. I did take the photos I promised yesterday though.

 

Here's the compartment end of the E147. The lamp bracket is just visible on the left, while the nearmost corner is the one that needed fixing back together. This side hasn't got any droplight frames as they were fixed to the glazing and couldn't be recovered...

 

...whereas on this side the droplight frames were (are) fixed to the bodyside so can be reused. I wonder why the original builder did that. From this side, too, you can see more clearly the ends of the brake cross-shafts and the transverse trussing. You can't see the backs of the battery boxes, which justifies my decision to leave them open.

 

In both shots you can see the roof strips, which are .040" x .010" Microstrip attached with MEK.

 

Here's the underframe, showing the bits I added. There are two running numbers pencilled underneath but it remains to be seen whether either or neither will be chosen. The irregular-shaped white bits on the bogie pivots are spacers to get the correct ride height. These were fitted by the original builder.

 

I pushed the coach around by hand for a bit and then coupled it to a loco. It ran successfully in both directions over minimum radius curves, crossovers and slips, so I'll continue work with confidence.

 

Now the viaduct guard rails. Here are two photos of the trial piece, with the wide and narrow gaps reversed.

 

in this one the wide gap is at the front and the angle makes it look reasonable.

 

In this one, however, the wide gap is at the back and looks far too wide. I'm glad I tried the narrow gap and that is definitely the one I shall use on the layout.

 

Here are the two little jigs - very simple to make and to use.

 

I might get the chance to do some work on the layout installation tomorrow. If so, there will be photos.

Edited July 17, 2023 by St Enodoc
images restored

[Ashley Bridge]

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

I didn't do much train stuff today, as my picture-hanging skills(?) were in demand. I did take the photos I promised yesterday though.

 

Here's the compartment end of the E147. The lamp bracket is just visible on the left, while the nearmost corner is the one that needed fixing back together. This side hasn't got any droplight frames as they were fixed to the glazing and couldn't be recovered...

 

...whereas on this side the droplight frames were (are) fixed to the bodyside so can be reused. I wonder why the original builder did that. From this side, too, you can see more clearly the ends of the brake cross-shafts and the transverse trussing. You can't see the backs of the battery boxes, which justifies my decision to leave them open.

 

In both shots you can see the roof strips, which are .040" x .010" Microstrip attached with MEK.

 

Here's the underframe, showing the bits I added. There are two running numbers pencilled underneath but it remains to be seen whether either or neither will be chosen. The irregular-shaped white bits on the bogie pivots are spacers to get the correct ride height. These were fitted by the original builder.

 

I pushed the coach around by hand for a bit and then coupled it to a loco. It ran successfully in both directions over minimum radius curves, crossovers and slips, so I'll continue work with confidence.

 

Now the viaduct guard rails. Here are two photos of the trial piece, with the wide and narrow gaps reversed.

 

in this one the wide gap is at the front and the angle makes it look reasonable.

 

In this one, however, the wide gap is at the back and looks far too wide. I'm glad I tried the narrow gap and that is definitely the one I shall use on the layout.

 

Here are the two little jigs - very simple to make and to use.

 

I might get the chance to do some work on the layout installation tomorrow. If so, there will be photos.

It’s amazing how much time and effort can be saved by making up a simple jig or gauge for any job. Even a spacer behind hand rails makes a neater finish , a bit like frenching all the screw heads on light switches or door hinges. Costs nothing, just looks right.

 Rich