Mid-Cornwall Lines - 1950s Western Region in 00

[Tim Dubya]

2 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

 - a brand new set of Slaters 1.5mm letters and numbers. These have been out of production for about 10 years to my knowledge.

 

Indeed sir, you want 1.5mm in the new, no chance!  2mm + now we're talking

 

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by Tim Dubya
morning coffee

[Tim Dubya]

PS: I note the return of the Toplight to the range, which I thought had dropped into the black hole of kits... the Coopercraft (non) continuum.

 

[St Enodoc]

19 minutes ago, Tim Dubya said:

PS: I note the return of the Toplight to the range, which I thought had dropped into the black hole of kits... the Coopercraft (non) continuum.

 

Yes, I look forward to the day when they are no longer NYA.

 

I see you've started reading from page 1 - Best of British!

[Tim Dubya]

32 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

I see you've started reading from page 1 - Best of British!

 

Very familiar with St Austell, Pentewan (which is where I thought you'd derived the name from), 'ggisy and Portmellon, where I've stayed many times at a house on the track to Chapel Point.  I also spent a fair few holidays in the same friend's house when they lived in St Austell on Bodmin Road, just a few doors up from the General Wolfe.

 

Happy days.

[St Enodoc]

I had a good look at the Prairie last night. I adjusted the back-to-backs then had a close look at the loco on the rolling road. There was nothing obviously wrong and no clear reason for the wobble, other than rather a lot of side play on all the wheels. This, coupled with the wheel profile that appears to have very little conicity and the very flat profile of the rolling road rollers, means that hunting is almost inevitable.

 

I therefore tried the loco on the layout today, with a temporary DC feed. It behaved much better, especially when hauling a train. Some wobble was still there but not as much as on the rolling road and at moderate speeds it was barely noticeable.

 

So, I've decided not to send it back and will carry on with chipping, renumbering, new couplings and so on. I think I'll also restrict the side play on the front and rear drivers a little. If I can find any, I'll use the old trick of Peco fibre washers with a slit cut in them so that they can be forced over the axles. If not, the same arrangement with bits of styrene will do.

 

A number of folk have commented on the lack of vertical movement on the pony trucks. The rear one is just about OK but the front one needs more. The easiest way to do this will be with a slightly longer M2 screw and washer.

 

After that little test session it was back to ballasting. I finished another yard-and-a-half of the double track main lines through the station before drawing stumps. No photos though, as it doesn't look much different from what's already there.

[St Enodoc]

On 07/07/2020 at 18:18, St Enodoc said:

Nothing to do with the Mid-Cornwall Lines really but this little lot made me drool with nostalgia:

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/OO-Gauge-Job-Lot-Very-Large-Amount-Of-Loco-Kits-Wheels-Motors-Kits-Accesories/153991679101?hash=item23da9e8c7d:g:nfcAAOSwBOxe~e4l

 

The same seller has 25 yards of GEM 00 track in new condition...

 

Those were the days!

 

Usual disclaimer.

The job lot went for GBP 430.00. Probably a bargain. Did anyone here buy it?

[Barry O]

Not me your Honour! Lots of stuff but it is quite " old"  Postage is a bigger bargain!!

[St Enodoc]

Both main lines are now ballasted as far as 33 points. The last couple of feet were a bit awkward, as it was a long reach across the lever frame and the tracks are getting closer to the wall here. I'll now go back and do the Branch (platform 3), Loop and Up Sidings, working as far as the first points in each case. Then I'll do the Down end pointwork, the main lines as far as Penzance throat and the Chapel Sidings. Probably another couple of weeks' work there.

 

I tried the Prairie after chipping and it was very stuttery. Now, I've had the same problem with 7446 and both have TCS decoders, so I did a quick search on the web and found that this is quite common with some decoder/loco combinations. The recommended fix is to disable BEMF, which I've now done. Both were fine after that on the rolling road, using DecoderPro/Sprog, so next time I'm in the railway room I'll see if they behave better.

 

The Prairie is now renumbered as 4167, using the same plates that were on the old Airfix model. These were made up using the old Martin Finney backing plates with individual numbers, so they're not 100% perfect in appearance, but I wanted to keep a little legacy of the old loco's character (if not its performance!). It has also had DG couplings fitted, so it's officially in service. It won't actually appear in the sequence until the Pentowan branch is operational though, so I'll leave final detailing such as lamp brackets, coal and crew until later.

[GWR1890-1908]

Hooray! GWR back with Slaters. I wondered how many years of bad air with CC it would take for Slaters to take them back. Hopefully they will market the Excellent bogie kits separately as they did before. If you wait long enough.....

[john dew]

17 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

 

 

I tried the Prairie after chipping and it was very stuttery. Now, I've had the same problem with 7446 and both have TCS decoders, so I did a quick search on the web and found that this is quite common with some decoder/loco combinations. The recommended fix is to disable BEMF, which I've now done. Both were fine after that on the rolling road, using DecoderPro/Sprog, so next time I'm in the railway room I'll see if they behave better.

 

 

 

Hi John
 

Glad you got it sorted

 

TCS are not my favourite decoders......they all appear to have this flaw where there is an upward spike around speed step 14 followed sometimes by no increase in speed to the next step they then resume an acceptable  rate of  acceleration.  I have tried all manner of combinations but never managed to obtain the smooth speed curve one invariably gets from Lenz or Zimo. I have progressively replaced most of mine,

 

Best wishes

 

John

[CCGWR]

45 minutes ago, john dew said:

 

Hi John
 

Glad you got it sorted

 

TCS are not my favourite decoders......they all appear to have this flaw where there is an upward spike around speed step 14 followed sometimes by no increase in speed to the next step they then resume an acceptable  rate of  acceleration.  I have tried all manner of combinations but never managed to obtain the smooth speed curve one invariably gets from Lenz or Zimo. I have progressively replaced most of mine,

 

Best wishes

 

John

 

Interesting, I haven't had a lot of trouble with TCS decoders being the best value for money and most available at a time. Sure some have failed from time to time but not often with this trouble. Nowadays we get all the locos chipped when they are delivered from either Hattons or Kernow Model Rail so they are ready fitted with Hattons decoders which are mostly fine apart from the fitted momentum (acceleration/deceleration) which can be frustrating on shunting and local trains. Kernow's seem to fit locos with whatever they have available. Last year a Hornby King Arthur and Bachmann J11 were ordered in the same order and were fitted with a Lenz and Bachmann respectively.

 

Connor

[Barry O]

I can recommend Lenz, Digitraxx, ESU and Zimo. Always had problems with TCS, Hornby and Bachmann ones. 

 

Bqz

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, john dew said:

 

Hi John
 

Glad you got it sorted

 

TCS are not my favourite decoders......they all appear to have this flaw where there is an upward spike around speed step 14 followed sometimes by no increase in speed to the next step they then resume an acceptable  rate of  acceleration.  I have tried all manner of combinations but never managed to obtain the smooth speed curve one invariably gets from Lenz or Zimo. I have progressively replaced most of mine,

 

Best wishes

 

John

 

1 hour ago, CCGWR said:

 

Interesting, I haven't had a lot of trouble with TCS decoders being the best value for money and most available at a time. Sure some have failed from time to time but not often with this trouble. Nowadays we get all the locos chipped when they are delivered from either Hattons or Kernow Model Rail so they are ready fitted with Hattons decoders which are mostly fine apart from the fitted momentum (acceleration/deceleration) which can be frustrating on shunting and local trains. Kernow's seem to fit locos with whatever they have available. Last year a Hornby King Arthur and Bachmann J11 were ordered in the same order and were fitted with a Lenz and Bachmann respectively.

 

Connor

 

56 minutes ago, Barry O said:

I can recommend Lenz, Digitraxx, ESU and Zimo. Always had problems with TCS, Hornby and Bachmann ones. 

 

Bqz

Thanks gents.

 

TCS aren't my favourites either but since NCE stopped making their small ones with plug attached (N12SRP and Z14SRP), which were my preferred type for years, there is less choice than there used to be.

 

The flaw is not the well-documented one of a discontinuity in the speed curve. It's an intermittent stop-start stutter at any speed but more so at lower speeds. I don't understand why this is happening, as the loco ran perfectly on DC on the rolling road and on the layout before I chipped it (so it shouldn't be dirty wheels/track or pickup problems); ran perfectly last night on the rolling road using DecoderPro/Sprog after I'd disabled BEMF; but ran like a bag on nails on the layout under NCE DCC today. I'll check the settings again tonight but I'm a bit stumped at the moment.

 

7446, incidentally, has a TCS EUN651 and although it ran better today there was still an occasional stutter from it too.

 

I'd be interested in recommendations for a) direct-fitting decoders like the TCS DP2X-UK or alternatively b) small decoders with a harness and 8-pin plug. I like to have a fairly high current rating but of course I don't use sound as you know. I also don't use Railcom or any such control system. They've got to fit easily into British steam locos and I'd prefer originals rather than rebranded ones.

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

 

 

Thanks gents.

 

TCS aren't my favourites either but since NCE stopped making their small ones with plug attached (N12SRP and Z14SRP), which were my preferred type for years, there is less choice than there used to be.

 

The flaw is not the well-documented one of a discontinuity in the speed curve. It's an intermittent stop-start stutter at any speed but more so at lower speeds. I don't understand why this is happening, as the loco ran perfectly on DC on the rolling road and on the layout before I chipped it (so it shouldn't be dirty wheels/track or pickup problems); ran perfectly last night on the rolling road using DecoderPro/Sprog after I'd disabled BEMF; but ran like a bag on nails on the layout under NCE DCC today. I'll check the settings again tonight but I'm a bit stumped at the moment.

 

7446, incidentally, has a TCS EUN651 and although it ran better today there was still an occasional stutter from it too.

 

I'd be interested in recommendations for a) direct-fitting decoders like the TCS DP2X-UK or alternatively b) small decoders with a harness and 8-pin plug. I like to have a fairly high current rating but of course I don't use sound as you know. I also don't use Railcom or any such control system. They've got to fit easily into British steam locos and I'd prefer originals rather than rebranded ones.

Well, for no particular reason I tried 4167 on the rolling road again tonight and blow me (other expletives are available) it stuttered there too. So now I"m pretty sure it's a dud decoder and will be going back.

 

Consequently, suggested alternatives will be even more welcome!

Edited July 14, 2020 by St Enodoc

[Clive Mortimore]

2 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

 

 

Thanks gents.

 

TCS aren't my favourites either but since NCE stopped making their small ones with plug attached (N12SRP and Z14SRP), which were my preferred type for years, there is less choice than there used to be.

 

The flaw is not the well-documented one of a discontinuity in the speed curve. It's an intermittent stop-start stutter at any speed but more so at lower speeds. I don't understand why this is happening, as the loco ran perfectly on DC on the rolling road and on the layout before I chipped it (so it shouldn't be dirty wheels/track or pickup problems); ran perfectly last night on the rolling road using DecoderPro/Sprog after I'd disabled BEMF; but ran like a bag on nails on the layout under NCE DCC today. I'll check the settings again tonight but I'm a bit stumped at the moment.

 

7446, incidentally, has a TCS EUN651 and although it ran better today there was still an occasional stutter from it too.

 

I'd be interested in recommendations for a) direct-fitting decoders like the TCS DP2X-UK or alternatively b) small decoders with a harness and 8-pin plug. I like to have a fairly high current rating but of course I don't use sound as you know. I also don't use Railcom or any such control system. They've got to fit easily into British steam locos and I'd prefer originals rather than rebranded ones.

Yeah I fully agree.

 

Can some help me I am totally lost with Sainty's ramblings but one must humour him.

[Stubby47]

Clive, hope this helps...

 

TCS - Trainee counter staff

 

 NCE - Non-commissioned engineers

 

N12SRP - National 12 (dinghy), with steel reinforced plating

 

 Z14SRP - Zodiac 14ft, with steel reinforced plating

 

discontinuity in the speed curve - it falls off on the bends if you go too fast

 

It's an intermittent stop-start stutter at any speed but more so at lower speeds - incontinence problems

 

I don't understand why this is happening - 'nuff said

 

I chipped it - a golfing term

 

it shouldn't be dirty wheels - off-road vehicle term

 

pickup problems - Ute issues

 

DecoderPro/Sprog - Alan Turing's child

 

BEMF - British Engineer's, Mounted Force

 

like a bag on nails - engineering term

 

NCE DCC -  Non-commissioned engineers, District of Columbia Chapter

 

 I'm a bit stumped at the moment - Cricket term

 

7446 - a bit like Kronenburg 1664, but stronger

 

TCS EUN651 - Trainee counter staff, Ecumenical Unit (Nominal), Six-Five (Point 1) Special

 

TCS DP2X-UK - Trainee counter staff, Dorothy Perkins Extra Large, UK shops only

 

small decoders with a harness and 8-pin plug - electric horse term

 

I like to have a fairly high current rating - amount of fruit cake eaten

 

I don't use sound as you know - eh?

 

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Stubby47

[St Enodoc]

Bit of a slow day then Stu?

[Stubby47]

As directed, we need to take periodic breaks from our work, get up, stretch, look at something other than the computer screen.

 

I did some of those, well the first one anyway.

[john dew]

4 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Well, for no particular reason I tried 4167 on the rolling road again tonight and blow me (other expletives are available) it stuttered there too. So now I"m pretty sure it's a dud decoder and will be going back.

 

Consequently, suggested alternatives will be even more welcome!

 

ZIMO MX600 8 Pin Harness should check all your boxes except, perhaps, current draw

 

I will be putting the hardwire equivalent (617) in my Prairies when they arrive

 

Regards

 

John

[TrevorP1]

3 hours ago, john dew said:

 

ZIMO MX600 8 Pin Harness should check all your boxes except, perhaps, current draw

 

I will be putting the hardwire equivalent (617) in my Prairies when they arrive

 

Regards

 

John

 

I tried one of these in a secondhand Bachmann Hall instead of the Bachmann chip that the previous owner had fitted. Changed the engine completely and it is now smooth and quiet without touching any CV except 29 to change direction.

[31A]

9 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Well, for no particular reason I tried 4167 on the rolling road again tonight and blow me (other expletives are available) it stuttered there too. So now I"m pretty sure it's a dud decoder and will be going back.

 

Consequently, suggested alternatives will be even more welcome!

 

I know nothing of DCC or decoders but I wonder whether it might be worth looking at a mechanical solution?

 

I've got three Hornby J50s, I bought two when they first came out (so probably hadn't been on the retailers shelves for long) and the third later as a bargain from Rails (so possibly had been in stock for some time).  Anyway all three were OK when tested in the shop but were stuttery on my layout, and not really suitable for station pilot work which was what I wanted them for.  I took them apart and found that the bearings weren't sitting properly in their slots, as the slots were packed with hardened grease - the white grease that's slathered all over RTR mechanisms.  So the locos were either slightly three legged, or rocking on the middle axle depending which bearings weren't properly seated.  So I cleaned out all the grease, this involved scraping with a scriber or knife blade to get it all out of the slots, and then re-lubricated the axles with oil.  All three of the locos were suddenly much better runners!  Apart from letting the bearings seat properly,  I think the bearings are now a bit looser so the whole thing has some 'slackness' in it.

 

I sometimes wonder when you read of people having problems with certain locos while others think they're perfect, whether this might affect a lot of RTR locos.  Since the J50 episode, I've found two Oxford Rail N7s to be similar and again I cleaned the packed grease from the bearing slots.

 

[St Enodoc]

7 hours ago, john dew said:

 

ZIMO MX600 8 Pin Harness should check all your boxes except, perhaps, current draw

 

I will be putting the hardwire equivalent (617) in my Prairies when they arrive

 

Regards

 

John

Thanks John, I"ll check that out.

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, 31A said:

 

I know nothing of DCC or decoders but I wonder whether it might be worth looking at a mechanical solution?

 

I've got three Hornby J50s, I bought two when they first came out (so probably hadn't been on the retailers shelves for long) and the third later as a bargain from Rails (so possibly had been in stock for some time).  Anyway all three were OK when tested in the shop but were stuttery on my layout, and not really suitable for station pilot work which was what I wanted them for.  I took them apart and found that the bearings weren't sitting properly in their slots, as the slots were packed with hardened grease - the white grease that's slathered all over RTR mechanisms.  So the locos were either slightly three legged, or rocking on the middle axle depending which bearings weren't properly seated.  So I cleaned out all the grease, this involved scraping with a scriber or knife blade to get it all out of the slots, and then re-lubricated the axles with oil.  All three of the locos were suddenly much better runners!  Apart from letting the bearings seat properly,  I think the bearings are now a bit looser so the whole thing has some 'slackness' in it.

 

I sometimes wonder when you read of people having problems with certain locos while others think they're perfect, whether this might affect a lot of RTR locos.  Since the J50 episode, I've found two Oxford Rail N7s to be similar and again I cleaned the packed grease from the bearing slots.

 

That's a fair observation, Steve, and the reason I check new locos out on DC before fitting a decoder. An hour's running in, half- and full-speed in each direction, on the rolling road. In this case that was all fine except for the aforementioned wobble so I did take the keeper plate off to look at the wheelsets. They were all in good order - no white grease but a lighter oil-type lubricant - so in this case I'm pretty sure it's a decoder issue.

[St Enodoc]

The latest instalment of the 4167 saga is that at the suggestion of a fellow BRMA member I brought another loco that's fitted with a TCS DP2X-UK in from the railway room today - 9732, a Bachmann pannier.

 

First of all, I took the decoder out of 4167 and put a blanking plug in to try it on DC again - all good,

 

I then fitted 9732's decoder to 4167 - all good.

 

Finally I tried 4167 again with its own decoder - still stuttering.

 

That's enough to convince me that I have a dud decoder so I took it out ready to take it back to the shop on Saturday.

 

Regarding a replacement, it will depend on what's in stock locally but based on suggestions here and from BRMA members the short list for integrated plug decoders is:

 

1. Digitrax DH165IP

2. Lenz Silver Direct +

 

and for wired plug decoders it's:

 

1. Digitrax DZ123PS

2. Zimo MX600R

3. ESU LokPilot Standard

 

Any further comments on this please folks?

[Stubby47]

15 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Any further comments on this please folks?

 

Not from me, I'm busy today...