RMweb Premium Tim Dubya Posted July 11, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 11, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, St Enodoc said: - a brand new set of Slaters 1.5mm letters and numbers. These have been out of production for about 10 years to my knowledge. Indeed sir, you want 1.5mm in the new, no chance! 2mm + now we're talking Edited July 11, 2020 by Tim Dubya morning coffee 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Tim Dubya Posted July 11, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 11, 2020 PS: I note the return of the Toplight to the range, which I thought had dropped into the black hole of kits... the Coopercraft (non) continuum. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted July 11, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 11, 2020 19 minutes ago, Tim Dubya said: PS: I note the return of the Toplight to the range, which I thought had dropped into the black hole of kits... the Coopercraft (non) continuum. Yes, I look forward to the day when they are no longer NYA. I see you've started reading from page 1 - Best of British! 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Tim Dubya Posted July 11, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 11, 2020 32 minutes ago, St Enodoc said: I see you've started reading from page 1 - Best of British! Very familiar with St Austell, Pentewan (which is where I thought you'd derived the name from), 'ggisy and Portmellon, where I've stayed many times at a house on the track to Chapel Point. I also spent a fair few holidays in the same friend's house when they lived in St Austell on Bodmin Road, just a few doors up from the General Wolfe. Happy days. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted July 12, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 12, 2020 I had a good look at the Prairie last night. I adjusted the back-to-backs then had a close look at the loco on the rolling road. There was nothing obviously wrong and no clear reason for the wobble, other than rather a lot of side play on all the wheels. This, coupled with the wheel profile that appears to have very little conicity and the very flat profile of the rolling road rollers, means that hunting is almost inevitable. I therefore tried the loco on the layout today, with a temporary DC feed. It behaved much better, especially when hauling a train. Some wobble was still there but not as much as on the rolling road and at moderate speeds it was barely noticeable. So, I've decided not to send it back and will carry on with chipping, renumbering, new couplings and so on. I think I'll also restrict the side play on the front and rear drivers a little. If I can find any, I'll use the old trick of Peco fibre washers with a slit cut in them so that they can be forced over the axles. If not, the same arrangement with bits of styrene will do. A number of folk have commented on the lack of vertical movement on the pony trucks. The rear one is just about OK but the front one needs more. The easiest way to do this will be with a slightly longer M2 screw and washer. After that little test session it was back to ballasting. I finished another yard-and-a-half of the double track main lines through the station before drawing stumps. No photos though, as it doesn't look much different from what's already there. 16 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted July 13, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 13, 2020 On 07/07/2020 at 18:18, St Enodoc said: Nothing to do with the Mid-Cornwall Lines really but this little lot made me drool with nostalgia: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/OO-Gauge-Job-Lot-Very-Large-Amount-Of-Loco-Kits-Wheels-Motors-Kits-Accesories/153991679101?hash=item23da9e8c7d:g:nfcAAOSwBOxe~e4l The same seller has 25 yards of GEM 00 track in new condition... Those were the days! Usual disclaimer. The job lot went for GBP 430.00. Probably a bargain. Did anyone here buy it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted July 13, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 13, 2020 Not me your Honour! Lots of stuff but it is quite " old" Postage is a bigger bargain!! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted July 13, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 13, 2020 Both main lines are now ballasted as far as 33 points. The last couple of feet were a bit awkward, as it was a long reach across the lever frame and the tracks are getting closer to the wall here. I'll now go back and do the Branch (platform 3), Loop and Up Sidings, working as far as the first points in each case. Then I'll do the Down end pointwork, the main lines as far as Penzance throat and the Chapel Sidings. Probably another couple of weeks' work there. I tried the Prairie after chipping and it was very stuttery. Now, I've had the same problem with 7446 and both have TCS decoders, so I did a quick search on the web and found that this is quite common with some decoder/loco combinations. The recommended fix is to disable BEMF, which I've now done. Both were fine after that on the rolling road, using DecoderPro/Sprog, so next time I'm in the railway room I'll see if they behave better. The Prairie is now renumbered as 4167, using the same plates that were on the old Airfix model. These were made up using the old Martin Finney backing plates with individual numbers, so they're not 100% perfect in appearance, but I wanted to keep a little legacy of the old loco's character (if not its performance!). It has also had DG couplings fitted, so it's officially in service. It won't actually appear in the sequence until the Pentowan branch is operational though, so I'll leave final detailing such as lamp brackets, coal and crew until later. 11 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWR1890-1908 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Hooray! GWR back with Slaters. I wondered how many years of bad air with CC it would take for Slaters to take them back. Hopefully they will market the Excellent bogie kits separately as they did before. If you wait long enough..... 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold john dew Posted July 14, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 14, 2020 17 hours ago, St Enodoc said: I tried the Prairie after chipping and it was very stuttery. Now, I've had the same problem with 7446 and both have TCS decoders, so I did a quick search on the web and found that this is quite common with some decoder/loco combinations. The recommended fix is to disable BEMF, which I've now done. Both were fine after that on the rolling road, using DecoderPro/Sprog, so next time I'm in the railway room I'll see if they behave better. Hi John Glad you got it sorted TCS are not my favourite decoders......they all appear to have this flaw where there is an upward spike around speed step 14 followed sometimes by no increase in speed to the next step they then resume an acceptable rate of acceleration. I have tried all manner of combinations but never managed to obtain the smooth speed curve one invariably gets from Lenz or Zimo. I have progressively replaced most of mine, Best wishes John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCGWR Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 45 minutes ago, john dew said: Hi John Glad you got it sorted TCS are not my favourite decoders......they all appear to have this flaw where there is an upward spike around speed step 14 followed sometimes by no increase in speed to the next step they then resume an acceptable rate of acceleration. I have tried all manner of combinations but never managed to obtain the smooth speed curve one invariably gets from Lenz or Zimo. I have progressively replaced most of mine, Best wishes John Interesting, I haven't had a lot of trouble with TCS decoders being the best value for money and most available at a time. Sure some have failed from time to time but not often with this trouble. Nowadays we get all the locos chipped when they are delivered from either Hattons or Kernow Model Rail so they are ready fitted with Hattons decoders which are mostly fine apart from the fitted momentum (acceleration/deceleration) which can be frustrating on shunting and local trains. Kernow's seem to fit locos with whatever they have available. Last year a Hornby King Arthur and Bachmann J11 were ordered in the same order and were fitted with a Lenz and Bachmann respectively. Connor 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted July 14, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 14, 2020 I can recommend Lenz, Digitraxx, ESU and Zimo. Always had problems with TCS, Hornby and Bachmann ones. Bqz 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted July 14, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 14, 2020 2 hours ago, john dew said: Hi John Glad you got it sorted TCS are not my favourite decoders......they all appear to have this flaw where there is an upward spike around speed step 14 followed sometimes by no increase in speed to the next step they then resume an acceptable rate of acceleration. I have tried all manner of combinations but never managed to obtain the smooth speed curve one invariably gets from Lenz or Zimo. I have progressively replaced most of mine, Best wishes John 1 hour ago, CCGWR said: Interesting, I haven't had a lot of trouble with TCS decoders being the best value for money and most available at a time. Sure some have failed from time to time but not often with this trouble. Nowadays we get all the locos chipped when they are delivered from either Hattons or Kernow Model Rail so they are ready fitted with Hattons decoders which are mostly fine apart from the fitted momentum (acceleration/deceleration) which can be frustrating on shunting and local trains. Kernow's seem to fit locos with whatever they have available. Last year a Hornby King Arthur and Bachmann J11 were ordered in the same order and were fitted with a Lenz and Bachmann respectively. Connor 56 minutes ago, Barry O said: I can recommend Lenz, Digitraxx, ESU and Zimo. Always had problems with TCS, Hornby and Bachmann ones. Bqz Thanks gents. TCS aren't my favourites either but since NCE stopped making their small ones with plug attached (N12SRP and Z14SRP), which were my preferred type for years, there is less choice than there used to be. The flaw is not the well-documented one of a discontinuity in the speed curve. It's an intermittent stop-start stutter at any speed but more so at lower speeds. I don't understand why this is happening, as the loco ran perfectly on DC on the rolling road and on the layout before I chipped it (so it shouldn't be dirty wheels/track or pickup problems); ran perfectly last night on the rolling road using DecoderPro/Sprog after I'd disabled BEMF; but ran like a bag on nails on the layout under NCE DCC today. I'll check the settings again tonight but I'm a bit stumped at the moment. 7446, incidentally, has a TCS EUN651 and although it ran better today there was still an occasional stutter from it too. I'd be interested in recommendations for a) direct-fitting decoders like the TCS DP2X-UK or alternatively b) small decoders with a harness and 8-pin plug. I like to have a fairly high current rating but of course I don't use sound as you know. I also don't use Railcom or any such control system. They've got to fit easily into British steam locos and I'd prefer originals rather than rebranded ones. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted July 14, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 14, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, St Enodoc said: Thanks gents. TCS aren't my favourites either but since NCE stopped making their small ones with plug attached (N12SRP and Z14SRP), which were my preferred type for years, there is less choice than there used to be. The flaw is not the well-documented one of a discontinuity in the speed curve. It's an intermittent stop-start stutter at any speed but more so at lower speeds. I don't understand why this is happening, as the loco ran perfectly on DC on the rolling road and on the layout before I chipped it (so it shouldn't be dirty wheels/track or pickup problems); ran perfectly last night on the rolling road using DecoderPro/Sprog after I'd disabled BEMF; but ran like a bag on nails on the layout under NCE DCC today. I'll check the settings again tonight but I'm a bit stumped at the moment. 7446, incidentally, has a TCS EUN651 and although it ran better today there was still an occasional stutter from it too. I'd be interested in recommendations for a) direct-fitting decoders like the TCS DP2X-UK or alternatively b) small decoders with a harness and 8-pin plug. I like to have a fairly high current rating but of course I don't use sound as you know. I also don't use Railcom or any such control system. They've got to fit easily into British steam locos and I'd prefer originals rather than rebranded ones. Well, for no particular reason I tried 4167 on the rolling road again tonight and blow me (other expletives are available) it stuttered there too. So now I"m pretty sure it's a dud decoder and will be going back. Consequently, suggested alternatives will be even more welcome! Edited July 14, 2020 by St Enodoc 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted July 14, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 14, 2020 2 hours ago, St Enodoc said: Thanks gents. TCS aren't my favourites either but since NCE stopped making their small ones with plug attached (N12SRP and Z14SRP), which were my preferred type for years, there is less choice than there used to be. The flaw is not the well-documented one of a discontinuity in the speed curve. It's an intermittent stop-start stutter at any speed but more so at lower speeds. I don't understand why this is happening, as the loco ran perfectly on DC on the rolling road and on the layout before I chipped it (so it shouldn't be dirty wheels/track or pickup problems); ran perfectly last night on the rolling road using DecoderPro/Sprog after I'd disabled BEMF; but ran like a bag on nails on the layout under NCE DCC today. I'll check the settings again tonight but I'm a bit stumped at the moment. 7446, incidentally, has a TCS EUN651 and although it ran better today there was still an occasional stutter from it too. I'd be interested in recommendations for a) direct-fitting decoders like the TCS DP2X-UK or alternatively b) small decoders with a harness and 8-pin plug. I like to have a fairly high current rating but of course I don't use sound as you know. I also don't use Railcom or any such control system. They've got to fit easily into British steam locos and I'd prefer originals rather than rebranded ones. Yeah I fully agree. Can some help me I am totally lost with Sainty's ramblings but one must humour him. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted July 14, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 14, 2020 (edited) Clive, hope this helps... TCS - Trainee counter staff NCE - Non-commissioned engineers N12SRP - National 12 (dinghy), with steel reinforced plating Z14SRP - Zodiac 14ft, with steel reinforced plating discontinuity in the speed curve - it falls off on the bends if you go too fast It's an intermittent stop-start stutter at any speed but more so at lower speeds - incontinence problems I don't understand why this is happening - 'nuff said I chipped it - a golfing term it shouldn't be dirty wheels - off-road vehicle term pickup problems - Ute issues DecoderPro/Sprog - Alan Turing's child BEMF - British Engineer's, Mounted Force like a bag on nails - engineering term NCE DCC - Non-commissioned engineers, District of Columbia Chapter I'm a bit stumped at the moment - Cricket term 7446 - a bit like Kronenburg 1664, but stronger TCS EUN651 - Trainee counter staff, Ecumenical Unit (Nominal), Six-Five (Point 1) Special TCS DP2X-UK - Trainee counter staff, Dorothy Perkins Extra Large, UK shops only small decoders with a harness and 8-pin plug - electric horse term I like to have a fairly high current rating - amount of fruit cake eaten I don't use sound as you know - eh? Edited July 14, 2020 by Stubby47 1 1 1 2 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted July 14, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 14, 2020 Bit of a slow day then Stu? 2 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted July 14, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 14, 2020 As directed, we need to take periodic breaks from our work, get up, stretch, look at something other than the computer screen. I did some of those, well the first one anyway. 4 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold john dew Posted July 14, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 14, 2020 4 hours ago, St Enodoc said: Well, for no particular reason I tried 4167 on the rolling road again tonight and blow me (other expletives are available) it stuttered there too. So now I"m pretty sure it's a dud decoder and will be going back. Consequently, suggested alternatives will be even more welcome! ZIMO MX600 8 Pin Harness should check all your boxes except, perhaps, current draw I will be putting the hardwire equivalent (617) in my Prairies when they arrive Regards John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TrevorP1 Posted July 14, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 14, 2020 3 hours ago, john dew said: ZIMO MX600 8 Pin Harness should check all your boxes except, perhaps, current draw I will be putting the hardwire equivalent (617) in my Prairies when they arrive Regards John I tried one of these in a secondhand Bachmann Hall instead of the Bachmann chip that the previous owner had fitted. Changed the engine completely and it is now smooth and quiet without touching any CV except 29 to change direction. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted July 14, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 14, 2020 9 hours ago, St Enodoc said: Well, for no particular reason I tried 4167 on the rolling road again tonight and blow me (other expletives are available) it stuttered there too. So now I"m pretty sure it's a dud decoder and will be going back. Consequently, suggested alternatives will be even more welcome! I know nothing of DCC or decoders but I wonder whether it might be worth looking at a mechanical solution? I've got three Hornby J50s, I bought two when they first came out (so probably hadn't been on the retailers shelves for long) and the third later as a bargain from Rails (so possibly had been in stock for some time). Anyway all three were OK when tested in the shop but were stuttery on my layout, and not really suitable for station pilot work which was what I wanted them for. I took them apart and found that the bearings weren't sitting properly in their slots, as the slots were packed with hardened grease - the white grease that's slathered all over RTR mechanisms. So the locos were either slightly three legged, or rocking on the middle axle depending which bearings weren't properly seated. So I cleaned out all the grease, this involved scraping with a scriber or knife blade to get it all out of the slots, and then re-lubricated the axles with oil. All three of the locos were suddenly much better runners! Apart from letting the bearings seat properly, I think the bearings are now a bit looser so the whole thing has some 'slackness' in it. I sometimes wonder when you read of people having problems with certain locos while others think they're perfect, whether this might affect a lot of RTR locos. Since the J50 episode, I've found two Oxford Rail N7s to be similar and again I cleaned the packed grease from the bearing slots. 1 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted July 14, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 14, 2020 7 hours ago, john dew said: ZIMO MX600 8 Pin Harness should check all your boxes except, perhaps, current draw I will be putting the hardwire equivalent (617) in my Prairies when they arrive Regards John Thanks John, I"ll check that out. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted July 14, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 14, 2020 2 hours ago, 31A said: I know nothing of DCC or decoders but I wonder whether it might be worth looking at a mechanical solution? I've got three Hornby J50s, I bought two when they first came out (so probably hadn't been on the retailers shelves for long) and the third later as a bargain from Rails (so possibly had been in stock for some time). Anyway all three were OK when tested in the shop but were stuttery on my layout, and not really suitable for station pilot work which was what I wanted them for. I took them apart and found that the bearings weren't sitting properly in their slots, as the slots were packed with hardened grease - the white grease that's slathered all over RTR mechanisms. So the locos were either slightly three legged, or rocking on the middle axle depending which bearings weren't properly seated. So I cleaned out all the grease, this involved scraping with a scriber or knife blade to get it all out of the slots, and then re-lubricated the axles with oil. All three of the locos were suddenly much better runners! Apart from letting the bearings seat properly, I think the bearings are now a bit looser so the whole thing has some 'slackness' in it. I sometimes wonder when you read of people having problems with certain locos while others think they're perfect, whether this might affect a lot of RTR locos. Since the J50 episode, I've found two Oxford Rail N7s to be similar and again I cleaned the packed grease from the bearing slots. That's a fair observation, Steve, and the reason I check new locos out on DC before fitting a decoder. An hour's running in, half- and full-speed in each direction, on the rolling road. In this case that was all fine except for the aforementioned wobble so I did take the keeper plate off to look at the wheelsets. They were all in good order - no white grease but a lighter oil-type lubricant - so in this case I'm pretty sure it's a decoder issue. 1 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted July 15, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 15, 2020 The latest instalment of the 4167 saga is that at the suggestion of a fellow BRMA member I brought another loco that's fitted with a TCS DP2X-UK in from the railway room today - 9732, a Bachmann pannier. First of all, I took the decoder out of 4167 and put a blanking plug in to try it on DC again - all good, I then fitted 9732's decoder to 4167 - all good. Finally I tried 4167 again with its own decoder - still stuttering. That's enough to convince me that I have a dud decoder so I took it out ready to take it back to the shop on Saturday. Regarding a replacement, it will depend on what's in stock locally but based on suggestions here and from BRMA members the short list for integrated plug decoders is: 1. Digitrax DH165IP 2. Lenz Silver Direct + and for wired plug decoders it's: 1. Digitrax DZ123PS 2. Zimo MX600R 3. ESU LokPilot Standard Any further comments on this please folks? 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted July 15, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 15, 2020 15 minutes ago, St Enodoc said: Any further comments on this please folks? Not from me, I'm busy today... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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