Mid-Cornwall Lines - 1950s Western Region in 00

[Michael Edge]

7 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Do you remember those happy days at primary school where you drew things and then cut them out? I do, and I relived them today.

 

After drawing the first version of the St Enodoc layout plan yesterday, I realised that I might be able to squeeze another few inches off the length by moving the Down end pointwork closer to the station. The critical factor here is the relationship between the platform, the steps and the road overbridge. The platform is already in place on the existing board, so I checked the dimensions of that and marked it on another sheet of paper. The steps are already built, from an Airfix/Dapol footbridge kit, but on the last layout they had to start from the bottom of the platform ramp so that they didn't bridge (ha!) the baseboard joint. That won't matter on the new layout, so I'll be able to copy the real arrangement where the steps started near the top of the ramp, with a short infill piece, and the pier stood on a plinth. For a picture of what I'm talking about, go to:

 

http://abcrailwayguide.uk/images/stations/BGL/bgl-bugle-1263-1200.jpg

 

I don't know how wide the road bridge is so I made an allowance of about 100mm (easily enough for a bus), then added a bit so that the toe of 19A point, where the Down Main and Wheal Veronica branch diverge, will be far enough from the bridge to get a soldering iron in when, not if, necessary.

 

Here's how it ended up:

 

The perpendicular distance from the edge of the existing baseboard is about 200mm. Remember that for later...

 

I then drew out the rest of the layout, resulting in this:

 

As it turned out, there isn't really room for any transitions here but I don't think that will matter as the tangent points of the reverse curves will be close to the bridge, so trains passing over them will be partly concealed and hence the end throws won't really be visible - I hope. Anyway, it is what it is.

 

For completeness, here are the two sections of layout I drew yesterday.

 

Porthmellyn Road Down end is fairly straightforward. Two B8 curved points leading to the circular curve (760/820mm radius) round to St Enodoc.

 

At St Enodoc the inner track (the Up line) stays at 760mm radius all the way round to the A5 point where the Up sidings lead off. The crossover and the connection to the Loop use B8 curved points again to avoid any reverse curves here. The point to the camping coach siding is a B6.

 

Once I got back indoors I modified the 1/10 scale plan, not by redrawing it but but folding it so that the toe of 19A point is in its new position. Originally it was about 280mm from the baseboard edge but is now 200mm (see above), which taking account of the curves reduces the distance between the curve centres at the Up and Down ends (as shown in square boxes), by about 100mm.

 

This was a very satisfying couple of days' work that has reinforced my confidence that the whole thing will fit!

I can't see any tangent track in that reverse curve - you must put some in, even if only a few inches.

[St Enodoc]

7 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

I can't see any tangent track in that reverse curve - you must put some in, even if only a few inches.

I know, I know...

 

The challenge is the overall length from left to right. There's only just enough room between the Polperran backscene and the gangway next to the viaduct to fit it all in while still maintaining the minimum radius and not having to chop the existing baseboards. I'll have another look though to see if I can get any form of transition in. When I've erected the St Enodoc L-girders I'll be able to do a bit of fine-tuning, to see whether there's any "give" as Graham so wisely put it. If there is, I would prefer some short back-to-back transitions rather than just straight sections between the circular curves.

[St Enodoc]

I've had a good look at this today, nearly wearing out my eraser and running out of pencil leads in the process.

 

 

First, here's the arrangement I drew out yesterday, with no straights between the reverse curves. The centres of the 180-degree curves at the Up and Down ends are marked with blue pins, which are about 2500mm apart.

 

The red pins show the critical gangways: on the left, next to the viaduct/lifting flap (which is between 550mm and 600mm wide, depending on whether I shave a bit off the lifting flap width and/or tighten up the clearance between the single line to Treloggan Junction and the baseboard edge); and at the top, between St Enodoc and Porthmellyn Road (about 600mm). My preferred minimum is 600mm although I'm prepared to go down to about 550mm where the narrow part doesn't extend very far.

 

 

Although adding straights between the reverse curves doesn't add to the overall length or reduce the gangway width at the lifting flap - good - it does mean that St Enodoc swings clockwise around the centre of the curve at the Up end (blue pin on the right), resulting in the top corner of St Enodoc getting too close to Porthmellyn Road and leaving a gangway only 450mm or so wide - bad. That's really too narrow so on the face of it I can't go that way.

 

However, all is not lost.

 

The goods shed road at St Enodoc runs right to the corner of the baseboard where the red pin is at the moment. If I were to shorten it, I could cut off the corner of the board to increase the gangway width. That's something to check another day, when I can get the board in question up on to the workbench and play around with the goods shed mock-up. So, Mike @Michael Edge, watch this space!

 

After all that I needed to do something less complicated and more productive, so I fixed all the loose baseboard joists at Porthmellyn Road now that all the under-board gubbins is in place. I then marked out an offcut of 9mm ply ready to make the first section of the Branch baseboard at Porthmellyn Road. I've got quite a few decent-sized offcuts so I might be able to get all the way to St Enodoc without having to buy any new sheets.

Edited June 28, 2023 by St Enodoc
Images restored

[Michael Edge]

12 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I know, I know...

 

The challenge is the overall length from left to right. There's only just enough room between the Polperran backscene and the gangway next to the viaduct to fit it all in while still maintaining the minimum radius and not having to chop the existing baseboards. I'll have another look though to see if I can get any form of transition in. When I've erected the St Enodoc L-girders I'll be able to do a bit of fine-tuning, to see whether there's any "give" as Graham so wisely put it. If there is, I would prefer some short back-to-back transitions rather than just straight sections between the circular curves.

We found this out in Leeds many years ago when a certain p way engineer told us - with the addition of "doesn't everyone know that". No we didn't but it quickly explained a lot of running problems and I've stuck with it ever since. I've never bothered with transitions though (but perhaps I should....).

[St Enodoc]

4 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

We found this out in Leeds many years ago when a certain p way engineer told us - with the addition of "doesn't everyone know that". No we didn't but it quickly explained a lot of running problems and I've stuck with it ever since. I've never bothered with transitions though (but perhaps I should....).

Yes I'm sure he told me too and it makes very good sense. I use transitions too where I have room but as you can see this is very tight. I'll do some more fiddling around, possibly with shorter straight lengths. At the moment they're about 200mm, slightly more than the bogie centre distance of a Mk 1 coach, which stops the bogies pointing opposite ways. How short do you reckon I could go before there is no longer any value in having them?

[Michael Edge]

That's far longer than you need, a couple of inches makes a big difference.

[St Enodoc]

7 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

a couple of inches makes a big difference

Indeed it does.

 

That certainly sounds more promising - thanks.

[St Enodoc]

I finished DGing another eight Dapol/Airfix wagons this morning. Four from Harry's estate - three vans and a Conflat - and four from my own stockpile - four vans.

 

This turned out to be a bit of a milestone, as for the first time (ever, I think) I now have more wagons available for service than waiting to be commissioned. Of course, that will only last until I buy some more...

[St Enodoc]

13 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Indeed it does.

 

That certainly sounds more promising - thanks.

All good.

 

I had a look at the full size drawing and, by adding about two inches of straight between the reverse curves as suggested by Mike @Michael Edge, the centre lines are offset by about 2 - 3mm each. This is well within Graham @LNER4479's allowance for "give" seeing as I can't usually lay track that accurately in any case. In fact, it wouldn't even show up on the 1/10 plan, which is drawn with a 0.5mm pencil so a pencil line translates to a line about 5mm wide at full size.

 

Thanks, Mike, for putting me "straight"!

[St Enodoc]

Buoyed by this morning's good result, I made a start on the Branch itself after lunch.

 

First, I removed the temporary Up and Down Branch Spurs and made a small shelf at Porthmellyn Road to carry the first section of the Branch trackbed. This is just glued under the existing baseboard.

 

Next, I cut the section of trackbed that I marked out yesterday and fixed it to the shelf. This time I didn't use glue but screwed it from underneath. It just rests on the joist on the right but that's more by luck than judgement.

 

Here it is looking in the Up direction, peering over the Polperran backscene as it were. I need to slit the trackbed between the two tracks to superelevate the curve. In this and the previous photo, you can also see the three EB1 circuit breakers for the Up, Down and Yard track bus zones. They won't be very accessible or visible here once the Branch progresses...

 

...so I moved them to the front of the Polperran L-girder. There will be two more in due course, one for the Branch as far as Treloggan Junction and the other for the junction, Pentowan and Polperran.

 

Finally for today I propped up the new piece of trackbed with a temporary joist and riser, then reinstated the temporary Up and Down Branch Spurs, as the new trackbed isn't quite long enough yet to stable the long clay train unfortunately.

Edited June 28, 2023 by St Enodoc
Images restored

[Michael Edge]

The EB1 circuit breakers don't need to be visible, you can wire in repeater LEDs for the indicator lights and put them somewher much more visible above baseboard.

It's beginning to look like a railway now.

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Michael Edge said:

The EB1 circuit breakers don't need to be visible, you can wire in repeater LEDs for the indicator lights and put them somewher much more visible above baseboard.

It's beginning to look like a railway now.

Thanks Mike. Yes, once I've fitted some fascias I'll mount repeater LEDs on them, just as I did for the accessory bus EB1s at Paddington and Penzance.

 

Thanks too for your comment about looking like a railway - I appreciate that a lot. I'm looking forward to getting the branch round to St Enodoc before too long. We won't expand the sequence for that but just run the clay trains a bit further than we can at the moment.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

3 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Buoyed by this morning's good result, I made a start on the Branch itself after lunch.

 

First, I removed the temporary Up and Down Branch Spurs and made a small shelf at Porthmellyn Road to carry the first section of the Branch trackbed. This is just glued under the existing baseboard.

 

Next, I cut the section of trackbed that I marked out yesterday and fixed it to the shelf. This time I didn't use glue but screwed it from underneath. It just rests on the joist on the right but that's more by luck than judgement.

 

Here it is looking in the Up direction, peering over the Polperran backscene as it were. I need to slit the trackbed between the two tracks to superelevate the curve. In this and the previous photo, you can also see the three EB1 circuit breakers for the Up, Down and Yard track bus zones. They won't be very accessible or visible here once the Branch progresses...

 

...so I moved them to the front of the Polperran L-girder. There will be two more in due course, one for the Branch as far as Treloggan Junction and the other for the junction, Pentowan and Polperran.

 

Finally for today I propped up the new piece of trackbed with a temporary joist and riser, then reinstated the temporary Up and Down Branch Spurs, as the new trackbed isn't quite long enough yet to stable the long clay train unfortunately.

I won’t pretend to understand the electrics / electronics on display, but I think the photos also show the benefits and versatility of L-girder benchwork very well too, even in this small example (it just so happens that I was looking at Linn Westcott’s original Model Railroader article on this from the early 1960s over the weekend).  Keith.

Edited January 4, 2021 by Keith Addenbrooke

[St Enodoc]

1 minute ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

I won’t pretend to understand the electrics / electronics on display, but I think the photos also show the benefits and versatility of L-girder benchwork very well too, even in this small example (it just so happens that I was looking at Linn Westcott’s original Model Railroader article on this from the early 1960s over the weekend).  Keith.

Thanks Keith. Yes, the L-girder framework will come into its own on the branch, much of which will be open-top.

[Oldddudders]

9 minutes ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

I won’t pretend to understand the electrics / electronics on display, but I think the photos also show the benefits and versatility of L-girder benchwork very well too, even in this small example (it just so happens that I was looking at Linn Westcott’s original Model Railroader article on this from the early 1960s over the weekend).  Keith.

Versatile it certainly is. I first read about it in a Freezer article in RM many years ago, and it works very well even for those of us with crap carpentry skills. I have used simple cross members above the L and solid particle board as the baseboard, but it lends itself to open-top etc construction for those with advanced scenic gifts.

[St Enodoc]

21 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Versatile it certainly is. I first read about it in a Freezer article in RM many years ago, and it works very well even for those of us with crap carpentry skills. I have used simple cross members above the L and solid particle board as the baseboard, but it lends itself to open-top etc construction for those with advanced scenic gifts.

That's right Ian. CJF "anglicised" the Westcott system sometime in the mid-1960s (I could find the exact reference if I could be bothered...). As you can see I'm using both closed top, much as you describe but with ply instead of particle board, and open top on the layout. Your comment about carpentry skills is spot-on - and you can get away with some very odd shapes and sizes of timber too.

[St Enodoc]

On 20/12/2020 at 08:58, St Enodoc said:

Thanks. We shall just have to see how things go. Our January running session now looks distinctly doubtful. More immediately, on Thursday I bought my tickets for the Sydney Test on 7 January...

Well, we've already cancelled our January running session, due to the tighter restrictions in Greater Sydney, and as of today the capacity at the Sydney Cricket Ground has been cut to 25% for Thursday's Test. All ticket holders will have their money refunded and have been given the opportunity to buy new tickets. We (there were only five of us this year anyway, instead of the usual dozen or so) have decided not to bother so I'll stay home and listen on the ABC from the railway room.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

I’ve not seen the CJF write up of L-Girder benchwork, but for anyone wanting the reference who has back issues or archive access for Model Railroader, the Westcott version was explained in September 1963, pp 44 - 50.  (I think an earlier description had appeared in a sister publication, Model Trains, early in 1961).  It’s now widely used and described.

[St Enodoc]

9 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

I’ve not seen the CJF write up of L-Girder benchwork, but for anyone wanting the reference who has back issues or archive access for Model Railroader, the Westcott version was explained in September 1963, pp 44 - 50.  (I think an earlier description had appeared in a sister publication, Model Trains, early in 1961).  It’s now widely used and described.

The CJF references I've found are:

 

"L-girder construction" - C J Freezer, Railway Modeller, October 1966

 

"Fresh thoughts on baseboards" - C J Freezer, Railway Modeller, January 1970

 

Don't forget the Kalmbach book "Basic Model Railroad Benchwork" by Jeff Wilson, which has a good section on L-girders too.

Edited January 4, 2021 by St Enodoc

[St Enodoc]

Today I cut the slit in the Branch trackbed for the superelevation, then extended the short joist under the Chapel Sidings to support the branch just on the Down side of the toe of 41B points.

 

I then decided it would make sense to relay the temporary Up and Down Branch Spurs on their correct alignment.

 

First, having lifted the tracks for the second time in two days, I found a small offcut of 9mm ply that would extend the Up Branch Spur just enough to get the full long clay train - 42xx + two Toads + 10 clay tips - in. I used another piece of ply to support the joint and moved the temporary joist and riser to support the extended Spurs.

 

After that, I laid the temporary tracks on both Spurs but without 41A and 41B points at this stage, as these need some fettling before they're ready to reuse.

 

 

Here are the relaid tracks from the end looking Up and from the side. You can see that I also put a further piece of ply in place temporarily to catch anything that might fall off.

 

 

Finally here is the long clay train tucked into the Up Branch Spur, pretending to be at St Dennis Junction awaiting its path back to St Enodoc, Porthmellyn Road and on to Tregissey.

 

That's it for construction for the time being until I get some more timber to make up the St Enodoc L-girders. In the meantime I'll turn to other things, like the platforms. In preparation, I've looked through lots of photos showing the relationship between the various buildings and station furniture at Par, to get the relative positions roughly the same at Porthmellyn Road.

Edited June 28, 2023 by St Enodoc
Images restored

[Mikkel]

Good to see some overview photos. That clay train has a lot of appeal. 

 

The lever frame looks like a piano. I am picturing you working the lever frame like a pianist with tailcoat and bowtie, wild-eyed and unkempt hair as the trains race back and forth.

[Barry O]

Good work! A bit of foam or a blanket or two would make the "stockfallingoff" plywood even safer.

 

And next time We get to Oz those wagons need some more weathering..

 

Baz

[St Enodoc]

10 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Good to see some overview photos. That clay train has a lot of appeal. 

 

The lever frame looks like a piano. I am picturing you working the lever frame like a pianist with tailcoat and bowtie, wild-eyed and unkempt hair as the trains race back and forth.

Wild-eyed and unkempt hair - definitely! Tailcoat and bow tie - hmm...

[St Enodoc]

6 minutes ago, Barry O said:

A bit of foam or a blanket or two would make the "stockfallingoff" plywood even safer.

Good idea. I'll see what I can find.

[aardvark]

21 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

... show the benefits and versatility of L-girder benchwork very well too, even in this small example ...

 

Nothing "small" about this layout