Ashley Bridge Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 5 hours ago, St Enodoc said: Our discussions will be with the builder. How he deals with his subbies is something I'd prefer not to see... It’s yer warm climate, mate. You take the spirit level out of the freezer in the morning and by ten o’clock it’s telling you things you don’t want to know! Rich 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted January 15, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2021 My Friday off has started well. I had to nip out to the shops and happened to pass a home-brewing supplies shop that I'd forgotten was there. I went in and, knowing that phosphoric acid is sometimes used by brewers as a steriliser, asked if they had any. "Yes, but only 10% concentration". Perfect! For $7.00 I now have more than a lifetime's supply - 250ml - of flux for steel. When I got home the postman had delivered a Ratio 552 brick signal box kit. I'm thinking of combining two of these (I already had one) to make Porthmellyn Road signal box. Finally, the fourth (and final) Test has just started at The Gabba. Life is good. 6 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted January 15, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2021 (edited) This afternoon went well too. First, I ran 6305 on the layout, in both directions through the pointwork at both ends of Porthmellyn Road - initially on its own and then with the tender attached. All was well except for running in one particular direction when going straight across one of the double slips, where the pony derailed every time by taking the wrong road at the elbow. I don't know whether that's due to my poor point construction or a slight sideways bias on the pony truck. Either way, as it won't normally operate on this bit of track I'm not going to lose too much sleep over it. I then moved on to the St Enodoc L-girders. I assembled the two sets of legs for the Down end L-girders then assembled the Up end L-girders themselves. Why? Because I wanted to sit the Up end L-girders on their shelves and fix them at the Polperran end. The legs at the outboard end are not yet fixed to the floor, which is a good thing as I made a non-deliberate mistake - can you spot it? Yes, the leg assembly should be offset by the thickness of an L-girder upright, so that the outer faces (front faces in these two views) of the two sets of L-girders will be flush with each other. I spotted this and fixed it after I took these photos. All this to the accompaniment of a good day's cricket, although the fielding side might come to regret three dropped catches. Tomorrow I plan to fix the leg assembly to the floor and then erect the Down end L-girders. Edited June 28, 2023 by St Enodoc Images restored 19 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted January 15, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2021 Most likely it's the pony truck pivot on the 43xx - check its position with Baldry's rule. Not that there will be anything you can do about it if it's wrong but it seems to be another one of those things that hardly anyone knows about. Your 10% phosphoric acid will be a lot better than Fluxite but might be a little weak for steel, will work if it's clean enough though. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted January 15, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Michael Edge said: Most likely it's the pony truck pivot on the 43xx - check its position with Baldry's rule. Not that there will be anything you can do about it if it's wrong but it seems to be another one of those things that hardly anyone knows about. Your 10% phosphoric acid will be a lot better than Fluxite but might be a little weak for steel, will work if it's clean enough though. Thanks Mike. I do know Baldry's rule but as there's nothing I could do about it without a complete chassis rebuild I haven't bothered checking. The pony truck has one of those cam arrangements that gives closer coupling on straights and in this case also pushes the pony wheels clear of the cylinders on sharp curves. If you don't have sharp curves this can be a damned nuisance but I'm reluctant to dismantle the body and chassis to change it. I adjusted the back-to-backs from 14.4mm to 14.5mm but that made no difference. What I think is actually happening is that the self-centring action is biasing the pony truck slightly to the right, which in combination with my imperfect work at the elbows (you will remember looking at those when you were here) has caused the problem on one specific route. The loco ran fine over the other routes on that particular double slip and also over the other double slip and the two single slips. On that basis I'm going to leave it alone, at least for now. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted January 15, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2021 6305 now has DG couplings. Locos with NEM pockets should be easy as the top of the pocket is just the right height to screw a coupling to. However, if a) you can't get at the top of the NEM pocket and/or b) there isn't room for the screw head, then you have to find another way. On 6305 the tender coupling was fine, as after removing the body and speaker housing I could extract the complete coupling mount. On the loco there was no way I could remove the pony truck without dismantling the whole loco (see above) so I fitted the coupling to the underside of the NEM pocket and cranked it up quite viciously. All's well that ends well though. That's all for tonight - back to woodwork tomorrow. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted January 15, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2021 1 hour ago, St Enodoc said: Thanks Mike. I do know Baldry's rule but as there's nothing I could do about it without a complete chassis rebuild I haven't bothered checking. The pony truck has one of those cam arrangements that gives closer coupling on straights and in this case also pushes the pony wheels clear of the cylinders on sharp curves. If you don't have sharp curves this can be a damned nuisance but I'm reluctant to dismantle the body and chassis to change it. I adjusted the back-to-backs from 14.4mm to 14.5mm but that made no difference. What I think is actually happening is that the self-centring action is biasing the pony truck slightly to the right, which in combination with my imperfect work at the elbows (you will remember looking at those when you were here) has caused the problem on one specific route. The loco ran fine over the other routes on that particular double slip and also over the other double slip and the two single slips. On that basis I'm going to leave it alone, at least for now. I thought it might be, it's utterly c**p engineering and causes no end of problems with K crossings. Andy Morris had the same problem with a kit built Crab on Chapel, I suggested he look up Baldry's rule, the pivot was moved and it now runs perfectly. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarrMan Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 32 minutes ago, Michael Edge said: I thought it might be, it's utterly c**p engineering and causes no end of problems with K crossings. Andy Morris had the same problem with a kit built Crab on Chapel, I suggested he look up Baldry's rule, the pivot was moved and it now runs perfectly. Could someone please enlighten me as to what this Baldry's rule is? Lloyd 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted January 15, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2021 9 minutes ago, FarrMan said: Could someone please enlighten me as to what this Baldry's rule is? Lloyd https://www.scalefour.org/resources/baldry.html 2 1 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killybegs Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 On 14/01/2021 at 00:09, St Enodoc said: We have just had our laundry renovated. The plans our designer drew up were very specific in two key areas. The joinery makers took no notice. We have some interesting discussions ahead... When we built our house we had a 'bespoke' kitchen fitted. However it did not turn out quite as expected. In fairness they came back ripped most of it out and did it properly. They went bankrupt shortly afterwards! I am still finding uses for the hardwood that was ripped out! 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted January 15, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2021 8 hours ago, Michael Edge said: I thought it might be, it's utterly c**p engineering and causes no end of problems with K crossings. Andy Morris had the same problem with a kit built Crab on Chapel, I suggested he look up Baldry's rule, the pivot was moved and it now runs perfectly. Yes, there are two possible solutions: a) modify the pony truck (and possibly the double slip); or b) bar the Mogul from Porthmellyn Road goods yard. Option b) isn't a problem operationally so that's what I'll do for now. The Hornby 42xx has a similar arrangement and gave trouble early on but a bit of springing fixed that. The Mogul already has a spring though. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted January 15, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2021 7 hours ago, Killybegs said: When we built our house we had a 'bespoke' kitchen fitted. However it did not turn out quite as expected. In fairness they came back ripped most of it out and did it properly. They went bankrupt shortly afterwards! I am still finding uses for the hardwood that was ripped out! I don't really want them to rip it out, mainly because of the buqqeration factor but I don't want them to go bankrupt halfway through! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post St Enodoc Posted January 16, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) Today should have been our first running session of the year but of course that was cancelled due to the lurgy, so instead I fixed the leg unit that I erected yesterday to the floor, then continued with the Down end L-girders. Here's the view from the doorway and lifting flap... ...and from behind roughly where the triangle at Treloggan Junction will be. That didn't take too long, so just for fun I decided to stand the two St Enodoc station boards on the L-girders to see how they looked. I also stood the Wheal Veronica kiln on a spare sheet of ply. Here we're looking across where the reverse curves, that we discussed a few pages ago, will go. At an exhibition many years ago, when it was part of the first St Enodoc branch terminus layout, one of the Wheal Veronica settling tanks ended up with a large shark in it. I wonder where that went? Again, we're looking across Treloggan Junction here, where the track will be about 47mm lower than at St Enodoc to give a bit of visual separation, particularly from the St Enodoc side. This doesn't reflect the final alignment, horizontal or vertical, in any way but it did let me mark out, check, and cut the ply for the trackbed at the Up end. I also made a small shelf on the station board for it to sit on. Everything looked about right so tomorrow I might add a few joists, align the Up station board (the one with the signal box) and make the last piece of trackbed between Porthmellyn Road and St Enodoc. Edited June 28, 2023 by St Enodoc Images restored 28 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted January 16, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2021 Great progress! Shame about the running session.. hopefully you can get them going before too long. Baz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted January 16, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2021 10 minutes ago, Barry O said: Great progress! Shame about the running session.. hopefully you can get them going before too long. Baz Thanks Baz. Yes, I hope so too. We were all set for this one until just before Christmas, when restrictions were tightened. Perhaps March... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted January 16, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2021 Fingers crossee! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted January 16, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2021 13 hours ago, St Enodoc said: Yes, there are two possible solutions: a) modify the pony truck (and possibly the double slip); or b) bar the Mogul from Porthmellyn Road goods yard. Option b) isn't a problem operationally so that's what I'll do for now. The Hornby 42xx has a similar arrangement and gave trouble early on but a bit of springing fixed that. The Mogul already has a spring though. The same or similar problem has been reported by several folk on the Dapol Mogul topic, for example by @Gopher: Now, some Dapol wagons, especially 6-wheel milk tanks, are notorious derailers. I have heard that this is due to a poor wheel profile, which is quite plausible. Replacing the wheels with Hornby, for example, cures the problem. I'll see whether I've got a suitable replacement wheelset. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted January 16, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2021 26 minutes ago, St Enodoc said: The same or similar problem has been reported by several folk on the Dapol Mogul topic, for example by @Gopher: Now, some Dapol wagons, especially 6-wheel milk tanks, are notorious derailers. I have heard that this is due to a poor wheel profile, which is quite plausible. Replacing the wheels with Hornby, for example, cures the problem. I'll see whether I've got a suitable replacement wheelset. I've found a very ancient Gibson 3' 2" 10-spoke bogie wheelset in my spares box (price GBP 1.80 from Puffers at Kenton). The axle seems to be a perfect fit in the Dapol pony truck, so tomorrow I'll make up the wheelset (my wheel press aka vice is outside in the garage) and try it out. All I've got to do is to remember to use the 00 axle, not the EM one... I'll report back. 5 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post St Enodoc Posted January 17, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) On 16/01/2021 at 22:26, St Enodoc said: I've found a very ancient Gibson 3' 2" 10-spoke bogie wheelset in my spares box (price GBP 1.80 from Puffers at Kenton). The axle seems to be a perfect fit in the Dapol pony truck, so tomorrow I'll make up the wheelset (my wheel press aka vice is outside in the garage) and try it out. All I've got to do is to remember to use the 00 axle, not the EM one... I'll report back. The replacement wheelset made no difference whatsoever, so I took it out and put the Dapol one back in. Never mind - nothing ventured, nothing gained. I made better progress with St Enodoc. First, after removing the temporary ends of the branch spur stub tracks, I marked and cut the "missing link" in the trackbed between Porthmellyn Road and St Enodoc and then laid some temporary joists across the L-girders to support the St Enodoc station boards at their correct height. Next, I clamped the missing link in place at both ends and, through trial and error, manoeuvred it and the station boards until I had a smooth curve all the way round and the station boards were located in accordance with the plan. Once I was satisfied with this, I marked the station boards and L-girders with their correct relative positions. At this point I thought it was time for some photos: This is the Up end of St Enodoc, where the track alterations need to be made, with the trackbed clamped to its shelf. A general view of the branch trackbed. The horizontal alignment is final but I will adjust the vertical alignment later. This shows the missing link in its final position, ready to cut at the end of the overlap on the left. St Enodoc station in its final position, showing how it's angled to optimise the location of the 180 degree curves at each end. The gangway here will be 600mm wide at its narrowest point, between the end of St Enodoc station and Porthmellyn Road goods yard. After a nice cup of tea, the next job was to mark and cut the missing link to length and to slit it for superelevation, after which I assembled the three pieces of trackbed, again using ply fishplates underneath. I didn't fix it at the St Enodoc end though, as I plan to do as much work as possible on these two boards while the undersides are accessible, by clamping them to the work bench. Finally, I reinstated the temporary stub tracks. All in all, this has been a good weekend's work (and a good, evenly-balanced Test match at The Gabba). Edited June 28, 2023 by St Enodoc Images restored 29 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted January 17, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2021 What back to back did you set the gibson wheels to? Their finer flanges sometimes need a slightly wider b2b. Baz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted January 17, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Barry O said: What back to back did you set the gibson wheels to? Their finer flanges sometimes need a slightly wider b2b. Baz 14.5mm, same as always. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted January 17, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2021 Try 14.6 or even 14.7.. it works for the newer Gibson wheels. Baz 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted January 17, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2021 42 minutes ago, Barry O said: Try 14.6 or even 14.7.. it works for the newer Gibson wheels. Baz Will do. These are old ones though - Norwich era. I've always set those at 14.5mm. What do you think? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denbridge Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 53 minutes ago, St Enodoc said: Will do. These are old ones though - Norwich era. I've always set those at 14.5mm. What do you think? Ive just measured the btb gauge ive used for many years with finescale wheels such as Gibsons. It is 14.85mm. Cant remember where this dimension came from, but over the years my locos and stock have run on many other layouts, generally successfully. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted January 17, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2021 You lose nowt by trying... Baz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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