Mid-Cornwall Lines - 1950s Western Region in 00

[Stubby47]

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

That's right, Stu. The operation will be similar to the old Carbis branch at Bugle. The loco will run round at St Enodoc and propel the train to Wheal Veronica. After shunting the incoming "empties" and outgoing "fulls" (in inverted commas, because at the moment they're always empty) the loco will pull the outgoing train back to St Enodoc and thence onward to St Blazey (Paddington fiddle yard).

 

That's quite a feat to push those wagons up and around the curve, then shunting double the amount at the Works. The canting of the track will have to be perfect, unless your wagons have compensation built in.

[5BarVT]

Just now, Stubby47 said:

 

That's quite a feat to push those wagons up and around the curve, then shunting double the amount at the Works. The canting of the track will have to be perfect, unless your wagons have compensation built in.

And double the (model) load as you shunt.  Have you tried a double length train on the gradient?

Paul.

[St Enodoc]

45 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

 

That's quite a feat to push those wagons up and around the curve, then shunting double the amount at the Works. The canting of the track will have to be perfect, unless your wagons have compensation built in.

 

42 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

And double the (model) load as you shunt.  Have you tried a double length train on the gradient?

Paul.

I've pushed a single set of five wagons, which are not compensated, up the branch without difficulty. The track is canted for most of the 670mm radius curve.

 

Eventually the short china-clay trains will have six wagons, one for each opening in the front of the kiln, so the combined train will be twelve wagons and a brake van.

 

The branch is level for about the last foot or so before the point, so only about nine wagons and the brake van will be on the gradient and some of those will be on the vertical curve. I'm fairly confident that all will be well. Two of the three locos, the 16xx and the 2021 (not built yet), are Nu-Cast whitemetal kits. If the Bachmann 74xx struggles I'll try to put more weight in it.

 

Next weekend I'll find out...

[Stubby47]

Thought you'd have it all covered, but it doesn't hurt (me   ) to throw in the occasional curve ball.

[St Enodoc]

1 minute ago, Stubby47 said:

Thought you'd have it all covered, but it doesn't hurt (me   ) to throw in the occasional curve ball.

Throw as many as you please, Stu! It makes me think more carefully about what I'm doing, why and how - but until I actually try I won't know for sure.

 

If it really doesn't work it wouldn't be too hard a job to reposition the risers and make the gradient shallower, although I don't want to lose completely the visual effect of one track falling and the other rising.

[Clive Mortimore]

3 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Well, yes - but the switch will be mounted on a panel (piece of MDF) rather than just hanging on the end of the wires...

Does the switch function OK? If so you are just making work for your self, mounting the switch in the MDF will need holes drilled and the control panel (MDF) will have to be screwed on to something as that can't be left dangling in mid air.

[Chamby]

7 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

That's right, Stu. The operation will be similar to the old Carbis branch at Bugle. The loco will run round at St Enodoc and propel the train to Wheal Veronica. After shunting the incoming "empties" and outgoing "fulls" (in inverted commas, because at the moment they're always empty) the loco will pull the outgoing train back to St Enodoc and thence onward to St Blazey (Paddington fiddle yard).

 

If the wagons have their covers on, you won't be able to tell whether they're "full" or empty anyway....

[Martin S-C]

9 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Well, yes - but the switch will be mounted on a panel (piece of MDF) rather than just hanging on the end of the wires...

Oh. So you're not doing it proper, like the rest of us do.

Splitter!

[St Enodoc]

12 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

mounting the switch in the MDF will need holes drilled

I might have a bit with  a hole/holes in it already.

 

12 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

the control panel (MDF) will have to be screwed on to something

Possibly nailed rather than screwed...

[Clive Mortimore]

7 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I might have a bit with  a hole/holes in it already.

 

Possibly nailed rather than screwed...

Hi Sainty

 

Nailed, and you call yourself an engineer

[Ashley Bridge]

23 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

 

I've pushed a single set of five wagons, which are not compensated, up the branch without difficulty. The track is canted for most of the 670mm radius curve.

 

Eventually the short china-clay trains will have six wagons, one for each opening in the front of the kiln, so the combined train will be twelve wagons and a brake van.

 

The branch is level for about the last foot or so before the point, so only about nine wagons and the brake van will be on the gradient and some of those will be on the vertical curve. I'm fairly confident that all will be well. Two of the three locos, the 16xx and the 2021 (not built yet), are Nu-Cast whitemetal kits. If the Bachmann 74xx struggles I'll try to put more weight in it.

 

Next weekend I'll find out...

If you make sure the white metal wagons are in the loaded string it might be easier. Unlike in reality where the empties weigh half as much, you will be propelling stock weight wagons up the incline.

Rich

[Stubby47]

4 minutes ago, Ashley Bridge said:

If you make sure the white metal wagons are in the loaded string it might be easier. Unlike in reality where the empties weigh half as much, you will be propelling stock weight wagons up the incline.

Rich

 

If the wagons have hoods, then at the works the 'empties' will become 'loaded' and on the return trip the same 'loaded' will be the 'empties'.

[Mulgabill]

But didn't the empties run without sheets, hence the inclusion of

a van, to carry the tarp's?

 

TONY

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Sainty

 

Nailed, and you call yourself an engineer

I thought you'd appreciate me bish-bash-boshing something!

[St Enodoc]

39 minutes ago, Ashley Bridge said:

If you make sure the white metal wagons are in the loaded string it might be easier. Unlike in reality where the empties weigh half as much, you will be propelling stock weight wagons up the incline.

Rich

Rich, the wagons are all plastic Kirk kits (with a little added weight). Also, each set is "empty" when it arrives but "full" when it leaves.

[St Enodoc]

34 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

 

If the wagons have hoods, then at the works the 'empties' will become 'loaded' and on the return trip the same 'loaded' will be the 'empties'.

Too early for hoods but the "fulls" were definitely sheeted.

 

9 minutes ago, Mulgabill said:

But didn't the empties run without sheets, hence the inclusion of

a van, to carry the tarp's?

 

TONY

I didn't know that Tony, thanks. I thought the sheets were just folded and placed in the empty wagons. I know vans were used to carry bagged clay.

[Mulgabill]

10 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Too early for hoods but the "fulls" were definitely sheeted.

 

I didn't know that Tony, thanks. I thought the sheets were just folded and placed in the empty wagons. I know vans were used to carry bagged clay.

 

I should add the caveat, that I'm not sure about dates that would apply. But

it certainly was the case at some periods.

 

TONY

[Chamby]

 

Re: the use of vans to carry the tarps... I haven't heard about this before, so apologies but I am left wondering... is this a fact, or speculation?  There are a great many photographs of long and short rakes of empty clay wagons without a van in the rake, so it was certainly not de rigeur.  The references I have to the use of vans all state they are for the carriage of bagged/palleted clay.

 

Re: shunting movements at the dries, the operation sounds similar to the operation of Lower Ruddle Yard on the Trenance branch.  Approached by a 1:40 gradient, the locomotive always operated at the ‘lower’ end of the train and was under strict instructions not to uncouple from the train until the guard had applied the van brake and either sprigged the wheels or applied the brakes of sufficient wagons to prevent rolling away.  Shunting movements were also not permitted during hours of darkness, presumably owing to the risk of runaway wagons?

 

The other traffic that could be included on the branch is the occasional short (2-3 wagons) coal train delivering fuel to the dryers, typically propelled by a pannier tank.  

[The Fatadder]

The van for the wagon sheets, I think was mentioned in either the Vaughn or Dart China clay books 

 

I know I’ve read it in at least one published work. 
 

 

[St Enodoc]

5 hours ago, Chamby said:

 

Re: the use of vans to carry the tarps... I haven't heard about this before, so apologies but I am left wondering... is this a fact, or speculation?  There are a great many photographs of long and short rakes of empty clay wagons without a van in the rake, so it was certainly not de rigeur.  The references I have to the use of vans all state they are for the carriage of bagged/palleted clay.

 

Re: shunting movements at the dries, the operation sounds similar to the operation of Lower Ruddle Yard on the Trenance branch.  Approached by a 1:40 gradient, the locomotive always operated at the ‘lower’ end of the train and was under strict instructions not to uncouple from the train until the guard had applied the van brake and either sprigged the wheels or applied the brakes of sufficient wagons to prevent rolling away.  Shunting movements were also not permitted during hours of darkness, presumably owing to the risk of runaway wagons?

 

The other traffic that could be included on the branch is the occasional short (2-3 wagons) coal train delivering fuel to the dryers, typically propelled by a pannier tank.  

Thanks Phil. That's pretty much how Wheal Veronica will operate too.

 

I plan to have a single coal wagon parked permanently at the buffers of the siding closest to the kiln, to represent the coal working. Using modellers' licence, it might be an ex-PO wagon in ECLP livery.

[aardvark]

16 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Nailed, and you call yourself an engineer

 

An engineer is someone that can do for 10p what anyone else can do for £1 (other currencies are available).

[St Enodoc]

On 20/06/2021 at 20:00, St Enodoc said:

If the Bachmann 74xx struggles I'll try to put more weight in it.

I was working from home today, so at lunchtime I popped out to the railway room and did an experiment.

 

I marshalled 15 china-clay wagons and a brake van and tried to propel them up the curved gradient from St Enodoc towards Wheal Veronica. 1664 (Nu-Cast) had no trouble but 7446 (Bachmann) did. It managed to get the whole train on to the incline but no further. Even a reduced load of 12 wagons plus the brake van was too much so clearly Something Must Be Done.

 

7446 weighed just over 200g. There isn't much room for extra weight but tonight I've squeezed some lead into the front of the boiler between the lower casting and the decoder, which has brought the weight up to about 225g.

 

If anyone knows how to get into the bunker there might be some scope there too - there are three screws underneath but removing them doesn't seem to make any difference.

 

I should have time to try again tomorrow.

[5BarVT]

At least you have one engine up to the job.  At what point does your timetable require both on show together?  Perhaps in the interim they will have to swap locos as they pass . . .

Paul.

[St Enodoc]

Just now, 5BarVT said:

At least you have one engine up to the job.  At what point does your timetable require both on show together?  Perhaps in the interim they will have to swap locos as they pass . . .

Paul.

Thanks Paul. There will actually be three - 1664, 7446 and 2182, which was the last of the 2021 class withdrawn from St Blazey in 1955. All three had very light axle loads so are suitable for the china-clay branches, which is what the real ones were used for. You'll only see one at a time on the scenic area as I've rostered them to work turn and turn about to give variety.

 

Don't worry, I'll make it work somehow.

 

Veronica's just suggested a magnet, funnily enough...

[Clive Mortimore]

10 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

I was working from home today, so at lunchtime I popped out to the railway room and did an experiment.

 

I marshalled 15 china-clay wagons and a brake van and tried to propel them up the curved gradient from St Enodoc towards Wheal Veronica. 1664 (Nu-Cast) had no trouble but 7446 (Bachmann) did. It managed to get the whole train on to the incline but no further. Even a reduced load of 12 wagons plus the brake van was too much so clearly Something Must Be Done.

 

7446 weighed just over 200g. There isn't much room for extra weight but tonight I've squeezed some lead into the front of the boiler between the lower casting and the decoder, which has brought the weight up to about 225g.

 

If anyone knows how to get into the bunker there might be some scope there too - there are three screws underneath but removing them doesn't seem to make any difference.

 

I should have time to try again tomorrow.

Hi Sainty

 

Chop out the plastic coal, fill the bunker with lead and top with real coal.