Mid-Cornwall Lines - 1950s Western Region in 00

[5BarVT]

7 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Even I have more Warships and I don't model bandit country.

 

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

Less is more.

That means I win (just): one D600, one D800 and only one D6300.

 

Paul.

[Oldddudders]

48 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

That means I win (just): one D600, one D800 and only one D6300.

I don't have any of the above. But at least I saw all but one of the Warships (D841) and 37 of 58 D63xxs.

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, Chamby said:

 

Bl**dy cheek...   Pirate country, please.

 

And remember, jam first!

Hi Phil

 

Anything west of Royal Oak station is bandit country so my mum told me and no one questioned what my mum said.

 

 

Any how aren't pirates bandits in boats.

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, 5BarVT said:

only one D6300

A bit risky. They usually hunted in pairs to give them a better chance of finishing their run.

[Northroader]

The good thing about 800s was they had two of most things. The control print out each morning would list all the locos stopped for maintenance, then include a list of several 800s, “type 4 running as type 2s”

[Mallard60022]

2 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

A bit risky. They usually hunted in pairs to give them a better chance of finishing their run.

The model is far more reliable than the actual......

 

[Mike_Walker]

Agreed.  A few years back at Warley I expressed my disquiet on the Dapol stand that my two Class 22s were "most unprototypical".  There was a concerned look in response before asking what the problem was.  "Nothing", I replied "they both run as sweet as a nut".  

"Oh, I see.  Well, we can sell you a bag of scale spanners"!  Laughter all round.

[St Enodoc]

I have sketched out the revised single line/Treloggan Junction/Pentowan layout on the draft plan, which now looks even more of a mess than usual. No matter - that's what it's for.

 

Starting with the Pentowan terminus itself, I haven't changed the left-hand section (the buffer stop end) yet. There will definitely be some changes later, especially to the carriage siding arrangement, but I'll wait until I can fiddle around at full size with fouling points and track spacings first.

 

Moving to the other end, you can see the new arrangement for the four inner tracks all leading off inside the continuous 1220mm radius curve. The trick here, which is partly hidden by the Treloggan Junction layout, was to change the radius of the innermost track (platform 1) between the king point and the short straight section from 760mm to 915mm, to get the right track spacing. As I mentioned yesterday, because of these changes the toe of the king point is now roughly one point length (about 280mm) further round the curve.

 

At Treloggan Junction the three A5 points now introduce a straight section between each of the three reverse curves. I think this will improve running and also appearance, not least at the top-right point, which would otherwise have been a 1/2.5 Y. Looking at that end-on would have been rather unrealistic and to be honest this had been bothering me for some time. At the entrance to Polperran, the toe of the Barry slip will be 1450mm from the edge of the main line and Chapel Sidings baseboard, which gives plenty of breathing space for the sidings and especially the headshunt. The triangle is a little closer to the backscene than I would like but I think I'll be able to fit a couple of signals and at least half an overbridge in the space. One of the buses will help hide the join.

 

Moving on to the single line, the curve opens up to 12000mm radius, starting about 50mm beyond the point toe. At the other end, I moved the transition back a little so that it is now about 35mm from the original position, not the 90mm I tried yesterday (the transition is shown by the rectangular box). I used a lot of trial and error in getting to these two measurements, as witnessed by the eraser debris at each end. What I ended up with was an offset of about 20mm between the two 12000mm curves, to be bridged by a common tangent. From the discussion a month or three ago on tangent points, and using the formula shown by Lloyd @FarrMan and Keith @Keith Addenbrooke, I calculated that this would give a distance between the tangent points of about 980mm. This will be long enough to adjust the position of Indian Queens Halt with regard to the future road overbridge next to Wheal Veronica.

 

When I set this out at full size, the length of this tangent may vary slightly due to the uncertainty of scaling from the 1/10 drawing but I'm confident that the overall arrangement will fit and will still give a nice layout of two wide curves and a straight section at the halt platform.

 

Time now to put down the pencil, compasses, ruler and eraser, and see whether it still looks all right in a few days' time.

 

Incidentally, I've just noticed that this is Earl of Clancarty's post. Another 90 and it will be my Wills Big Prairie's turn.

Edited June 29, 2022 by St Enodoc
images restored

[The Stationmaster]

4 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

A bit risky. They usually hunted in pairs to give them a better chance of finishing their run.

I actually travelled behind one that got all the way through the morning part of its diagram without failing - an interesting way to 'do' the Wallingford branch (on a freight trip).   Oddly they never failed either on any of the early morning 'paper trains I travelled on from Paddington.   Hymeks were much more useful as the sump oil they used boosted the mpp (miles per pint of oil) in my Ford Popular from 35 to over 100    

By the time I gave up underlining things in my ABC I had seen all the WR diesel hydraulics that rode on bogies except for five of them (four x D63XX and one D70XX) but I've only got a works plate off one (an NBL DBXX)

 

For somebody aiming at the North & West line I have far too many diesel hydraulics of all persuasions - there must have been a lot of test trips is all I will say.  

 

 

[St Enodoc]

1 minute ago, The Stationmaster said:

Hymeks were much more useful as the sump oil they used boosted the mpp (miles per pint of oil) in my Ford Popular from 35 to over 100 

I wish I'd known that. My first car was a half-share in a Ford Pop 100E, bought by a fellow BR trainee and myself so we could get to Toton from Derby (and back) on shifts. It did about 30mpg of petrol, about 30 mpp of engine oil and about 50 mpp of back-axle oil, because of a lousy seal on one of the half shafts.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

2 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I have sketched out the revised single line/Treloggan Junction/Pentowan layout on the draft plan, which now looks even more of a mess than usual. No matter - that's what it's for.

 

Starting with the Pentowan terminus itself, I haven't changed the left-hand section (the buffer stop end) yet. There will definitely be some changes later, especially to the carriage siding arrangement, but I'll wait until I can fiddle around at full size with fouling points and track spacings first.

 

Moving to the other end, you can see the new arrangement for the four inner tracks all leading off inside the continuous 1220mm radius curve. The trick here, which is partly hidden by the Treloggan Junction layout, was to change the radius of the innermost track (platform 1) between the king point and the short straight section from 760mm to 915mm, to get the right track spacing. As I mentioned yesterday, because of these changes the toe of the king point is now roughly one point length (about 280mm) further round the curve.

 

At Treloggan Junction the three A5 points now introduce a straight section between each of the three reverse curves. I think this will improve running and also appearance, not least at the top-right point, which would otherwise have been a 1/2.5 Y. Looking at that end-on would have been rather unrealistic and to be honest this had been bothering me for some time. At the entrance to Polperran, the toe of the Barry slip will be 1450mm from the edge of the main line and Chapel Sidings baseboard, which gives plenty of breathing space for the sidings and especially the headshunt. The triangle is a little closer to the backscene than I would like but I think I'll be able to fit a couple of signals and at least half an overbridge in the space. One of the buses will help hide the join.

 

Moving on to the single line, the curve opens up to 12000mm radius, starting about 50mm beyond the point toe. At the other end, I moved the transition back a little so that it is now about 35mm from the original position, not the 90mm I tried yesterday (the transition is shown by the rectangular box). I used a lot of trial and error in getting to these two measurements, as witnessed by the eraser debris at each end. What I ended up with was an offset of about 20mm between the two 12000mm curves, to be bridged by a common tangent. From the discussion a month or three ago on transition points, and using the formula shown by Lloyd @FarrMan and Keith @Keith Addenbrooke, I calculated that this would give a distance between the tangent points of about 980mm. This will be long enough to adjust the position of Indian Queens Halt with regard to the future road overbridge next to Wheal Veronica.

 

When I set this out at full size, the length of this tangent may vary slightly due to the uncertainty of scaling from the 1/10 drawing but I'm confident that the overall arrangement will fit and will still give a nice layout of two wide curves and a straight section at the halt platform.

 

Time now to put down the pencil, compasses, ruler and eraser, and see whether it still looks all right in a few days' time.

 

Incidentally, I've just noticed that this is Earl of Clancarty's post. Another 90 and it will be my Wills Big Prairie's turn.

A useful update.  I suppose the challenge with the triangular junction is to make it look like the smaller branch diverges from the main running line, or the later line diverges from that built first (whichever way round that was), but in a situation where the through running line is itself on quite a tight curve.  
If I drew it, it would most likely look like an American turning wye or a light rapid transit urban street junction!  Not using Y points is probably the best way to do it, but I can speak only as an observer.

[Mallard60022]

2 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I wish I'd known that. My first car was a half-share in a Ford Pop 100E, bought by a fellow BR trainee and myself so we could get to Toton from Derby (and back) on shifts. It did about 30mpg of petrol, about 30 mpp of engine oil and about 50 mpp of back-axle oil, because of a lousy seal on one of the half shafts.

Did it have windscreen wipers that slowed down if the engine was working hard e.g all the time and especially uphill?

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

Did it have windscreen wipers that slowed down if the engine was working hard e.g all the time and especially uphill?

Mine was the 'sit up and beg' 103E version so it was all too definitely plagued with vacuum windscreen wipers.

[St Enodoc]

11 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

A useful update.  I suppose the challenge with the triangular junction is to make it look like the smaller branch diverges from the main running line, or the later line diverges from that built first (whichever way round that was), but in a situation where the through running line is itself on quite a tight curve.  
If I drew it, it would most likely look like an American turning wye or a light rapid transit urban street junction!  Not using Y points is probably the best way to do it, but I can speak only as an observer.

It is very much like a wye, Keith and was even more so before I redrew it without Y-points. In fact, it will be used as such for turning locos (not whole trains), there being no turntable at Pentowan, just like the real Newquay. I think it will look OK, though, as it will be viewed more-or-less from the centre of the "main" line curve between Pentowan and St Enodoc, with the two lines to Polperran leading away from the eye.

[St Enodoc]

11 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Did it have windscreen wipers that slowed down if the engine was working hard e.g all the time and especially uphill?

 

10 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Mine was the 'sit up and beg' 103E version so it was all too definitely plagued with vacuum windscreen wipers.

Yes, vacuum-operated wipers that went like the clappers when you were standing still and, of course, only a three-speed-and-reverse gearbox, with reverse where you would expect first to be. This could catch you out from time to time...

 

Another distinguishing feature was a large hole in the boot floor, which meant that you couldn't put anything in there.

 

All in all, a genuine old banger but at least it didn't cost us too much - actually, the radio was worth more than the car.

 

I have models of a 100E and a 103E, which was my Dad's first car. Both will appear, with the correct registration numbers, in Mid-Cornwall in due course.

[Sandhole]

On 18/07/2021 at 22:51, St Enodoc said:

Thanks, Chris, but it's very much in the bodge-it style - which of course is one of the benefits of the L-girder system.

 

You'll be welcome if you ever make it this far south!

 

We had a discussion on this a few pages back. The conclusion, unless any fresh evidence comes along, is that the short china-clay trains will be propelled by the train engine from St Enodoc to Wheal Veronica with a brake van at both ends.

 

Yes, I've got one pair but they only run on the main line. I've also got one each of the D600 and D800 Warships.

Thanks for all the info.
Regards,
Chris.

[Oldddudders]

14 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Yes, vacuum-operated wipers that went like the clappers when you were standing still and, of course, only a three-speed-and-reverse gearbox, with reverse where you would expect first to be. This could catch you out from time to time...

The three-speed box was "a wrong gear for every occasion" according to my mate, having bought one as his first own car. It must have seemed a bit of a comedown after his dad's Zephyr 6. Rough-day-in-the-Channel green, it appealed even less the day the gear stick came off in his hand - some way from home and in second gear. His next car was a Cortina GT.

[Tallpaul69]

On 19/07/2021 at 07:27, 5BarVT said:

 

That means I win (just): one D600, one D800 and only one D6300.

 

Paul.

Can I trump you with the addition of a Western? (plus a Hymek , but someone else has already mentioned them!)

[St Enodoc]

4 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

the gear stick came off in his hand

Had that happen in a Land Rover. That was the day we found the 1,002nd use for a mole wrench.

[St Enodoc]

4 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

Can I trump you with the addition of a Western? (plus a Hymek , but someone else has already mentioned them!)

Too modern for Mid-Cornwall unfortunately (and Hymeks were rare beasts west of the Tamar anyway). A Western is tempting for the future dock layout, although I suspect that in 1968 they would still mainly have been working a higher class of train.

[5BarVT]

4 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

Can I trump you with the addition of a Western? (plus a Hymek , but someone else has already mentioned them!)

I was keeping quiet about Westerns and Hymeks as I have three of each (modern) and another 3 Tri-ang and 1 Lima (old).  With that score I wouldn’t even make the cut!

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

Had that happen in a Land Rover. That was the day we found the 1,002nd use for a mole wrench.

Happened to me in a BR Escort in Newport High Street ( and I mean the street itself, not High Street station).  Fortunately it slotted straight back in but wouldn't find all the gears so it was back to Ebbw Jcn depot in 2nd gear all the way.

 

I refuse to pffert a count the number of model WR diesel hydraiulics in my possession as it might give folk a misleading impression of where my interests lie.  

 

PS Oddly in going through various books lately I am increasingly surprised at the number of pics (albeit not all that many but the fact thast there are some) of Hymeks in the West of England.

Edited July 20, 2021 by The Stationmaster

[Gedward]

6 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

A Western is tempting for the future dock layout, although I suspect that in 1968 they would still mainly have been working a higher class of train.

 

Ahh 1968, a young 13 year old lad, standing on the end of Royal Oak station, spotting Warships and Westerners all day long. That would have been one of the last times, as we moved to Pimlico in 1969 and I don't recall ever spotting at Victoria. 

 

 

 

[Tallpaul69]

19 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

I was keeping quiet about Westerns and Hymeks as I have three of each (modern) and another 3 Tri-ang and 1 Lima (old).  With that score I wouldn’t even make the cut!

Like you, I had an accumulation of BR(W) diesels, ancient, old, and modern. However, I have been reducing my score by selling all my older versions. Mainly this has involved disposing of a good number of Lima models plus the odd Hornby Hymek. This process has been accelerated by my move to sound fitting, which is not easy in the Lima models, and often involves new motors etc.

 

I still have to invoke rule 1 though as my GW&GC line, rarely saw Warships, or Hymeks, and needs more than my small fleet of Westerns! 

But the variety of sounds is ample compensation.

Cheers All, 

[figworthy]

21 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Had that happen in a Land Rover. That was the day we found the 1,002nd use for a mole wrench.

 

Dad had that problem as well with his, but didn't have his tool box to hand, so I had to tow him to work.  Following a trip to the local government surplus dealer, a "new" gear lever was bought and installed, at which point we discovered that they came in RHD and LHD versions.

 

Adrian