RMweb Premium Popular Post St Enodoc Posted August 25, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted August 25, 2021 (edited) I finished the Barry slip last night. Not too many challenges here apart from the usual ones with slips of finding places to gauge the different rails from. I extended the tiebars so that the point motors will be well clear of the secondary joist at the back of Polperran. Once I've cleaned it up, it will be ready to lay at the weekend. Just one more A5 LH to build and I'll have enough points for the whole right-hand (Porthmellyn Road) end of Polperran. Edited June 29, 2022 by St Enodoc images restored 16 16 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 8 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said: Groan button is still missing. Found one for you. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chamby Posted August 25, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 25, 2021 7 hours ago, St Enodoc said: I finished the Barry slip last night. Not too many challenges here apart from the usual ones with slips of finding places to gauge the different rails from. I extended the tiebars so that the point motors will be well clear of the secondary joist at the back of Polperran. Once I've cleaned it up, it will be ready to lay at the weekend. Just one more A5 LH to build and I'll have enough points for the whole right-hand (Porthmellyn Road) end of Polperran. Sod’s law says that, when you start operating the Barry slip in earnest, you’ll suddenly realise that the missing straight road would actually be useful in some situations! 1 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 25, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 25, 2021 20 hours ago, Barry O said: Yes I am delighted that St Enodoc is building a slip named after me!! Baz However you will be required to ballast it (or rather ballast the scenically visible lparts of the layout leading to it). 4 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted August 26, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 26, 2021 (edited) I sketched out the arrangement for the polarity reversal at Treloggan Junction 13 points, having already confirmed with DCC Concepts that the Cobalt changeover switches are break-before-make. As I did so, I realised (I think) that I don't need two separate motors after all. If you look at the two tracks converging towards the heel of the point, the inner rails are both at the same polarity as each other (in this case Red). The only reason to switch the frog is to ensure it has the same polarity as the adjoining rail - but if they are both the same then the frog doesn't need switching, because whichever way the point is set the adjoining rail will be Red. Consequently, the frog can be wired permanently to the Red bus wire. This means that I only need two changeover switches, to switch the stock rails, and so the two on the motor that actually changes the points will be sufficient. Perhaps you can all have a look at this and tell me whether I'm right. Edited June 29, 2022 by St Enodoc images restored 3 2 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nick C Posted August 26, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 26, 2021 Yep, that looks right to me - I've just sketched out the whole junction to check it in context... 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted August 26, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 26, 2021 I agree. The switching as you have it will provide the Polperran power correctly depending on the setting of the point. 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 5BarVT Posted August 26, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 26, 2021 As you say, the frog doesn’t need switching as it’s always Red but the two Polperran rails do, thus two switches are sufficient. BUT . . . What colour should the wires be? Can’t use frog wire colour as there are two switched rails, but I would be nervous using black and red for confusion near the ‘join’’. (There’s always the AC101 approach to showing earthed rails in adjacent sidings, a green wrap at intervals on the switched black and red.) Paul. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chamby Posted August 26, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 26, 2021 You also only need four rail breaks, not six. The two on the LHS of your diagram can be dispensed with. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted August 26, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 26, 2021 Obviously, one of the two wires should be Red/Black, and the other should be Black/Red. 1 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 5BarVT Posted August 26, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 26, 2021 4 minutes ago, Stubby47 said: Obviously, one of the two wires should be Red/Black, and the other should be Black/Red. Of course, easy to identify then. Paul. 3 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted August 26, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 26, 2021 9 hours ago, 5BarVT said: As you say, the frog doesn’t need switching as it’s always Red but the two Polperran rails do, thus two switches are sufficient. BUT . . . What colour should the wires be? Can’t use frog wire colour as there are two switched rails, but I would be nervous using black and red for confusion near the ‘join’’. (There’s always the AC101 approach to showing earthed rails in adjacent sidings, a green wrap at intervals on the switched black and red.) Paul. 9 hours ago, Stubby47 said: Obviously, one of the two wires should be Red/Black, and the other should be Black/Red. 9 hours ago, 5BarVT said: Of course, easy to identify then. Paul. Funnily enough, I'd thought about that! My plan is to use the usual red and black wires but with a wrap of the opposite colour insulation tape near each joint, so Stu (perhaps unintentionally) has got it right. The labels will identify the wires too of course - "Polperran Front" and "Polperran Back". 5 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted August 27, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 27, 2021 (edited) On 24/08/2021 at 15:03, St Enodoc said: Today a second-hand Bachmann St Blazey brake van, which was a Kernow limited edition, arrived from Hattons. Once I've fitted DG couplings, it can take over on the long train and the Par van will go back on to the shelf until it can be put to work on the Branch freight. I've cheated a bit by removing the couplings from one of the spare vans (the Helston branch one) and fitting them temporarily to the St Blazey van. This was very easy, as they're just screwed to the NEM pocket mountings. I atoned for my laziness by fitting side lamps and a tail lamp. These are fixed, as both ends of the long china-clay train's run are off-stage so we can turn the van (and the loco) round by hand. This is the first freight train I've ever had that is fully-lamped, which is quite pleasing. The previous owner had fitted vacuum pipes to the St Blazey van. I'll leave them as they are, because I think that removing them would create too much mess. Photos later. Edit: According to part 5 of John Lewis' comprehensive survey of GWR brake vans (Scale Trains, October 1983), this van might well have been vacuum fitted - so I'll definitely leave it as it is. Edited August 27, 2021 by St Enodoc 10 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post St Enodoc Posted August 27, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted August 27, 2021 (edited) On 27/08/2021 at 08:48, St Enodoc said: My plan is to use the usual red and black wires but with a wrap of the opposite colour insulation tape near each joint, so Stu (perhaps unintentionally) has got it right. The labels will identify the wires too of course - "Polperran Front" and "Polperran Back". Well, that plan didn't survive contact with reality for very long, because I haven't got any black insulation tape (or, rather, I've got some but couldn't find it). I therefore used blue tape, so the Polperran feeds are now red/blue (front) and black/blue (back). I connected everything up except the point motor power, which I won't need until the whole triangle is in use, and checked all the rail polarities with the multimeter. All good, so the spare Cobalt has gone back into its box. I then moved on to the rest of the track into Polperran, working from left to right. There's a short section of plain track followed by the Barry slip, which I laid at the same time, then a short length of SMP and shorter length of Peco code 75 up to the buffer stops on road 6. That all went well, so I fitted the two point motors (remembering to use Cobalt Digital motors not Analogue this time!) and drilled the holes for the droppers. I didn't take any photos, though, as the Barry slip is still being weighed down by a couple of bricks. I did take a couple of photos of the St Blazey brake van though: As well as being fully-lamped, this train is also fully-crewed (actually, all the brake vans have guards on board but they're hiding inside...). Tomorrow's target is to connect the Barry slip's point motors to the accessory bus, program them and connect all the droppers and feeders too. This will let trains run in and out of Polperran road 6. After that, I can lay the points and track for roads 7 and 8 before I need to build the next point. Edited June 29, 2022 by St Enodoc images restored 31 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tankerman Posted August 27, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 27, 2021 10 hours ago, St Enodoc said: Funnily enough, I'd thought about that! My plan is to use the usual red and black wires but with a wrap of the opposite colour insulation tape near each joint, so Stu (perhaps unintentionally) has got it right. The labels will identify the wires too of course - "Polperran Front" and "Polperran Back". Which is very similar to what electricians do with the switch wire from the lighting switch when wiring a four plate junction box on a lighting circuit. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post Chamby Posted August 27, 2021 RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted August 27, 2021 9 hours ago, St Enodoc said: I atoned for my laziness by fitting side lamps and a tail lamp. These are fixed, as both ends of the long china-clay train's run are off-stage so we can turn the van (and the loco) round by hand. This is the first freight train I've ever had that is fully-lamped, which is quite pleasing. The Bachmann Toad is really easy to add working lamps to, which I find adds to the pleasure. I use the DCC Concepts red lamps. The underside is uncluttered for installing pick-ups, and the body is easily removed for installing the lamp, running the wires unobtrusively, and hiding a 50K ohm resistor and diode inside: 15 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted August 27, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 27, 2021 If the van is vac. fitted shouldn't it be in bauxite livery? 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted August 27, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Michael Edge said: If the van is vac. fitted shouldn't it be in bauxite livery? Probably! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 27, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 27, 2021 2 hours ago, Michael Edge said: If the van is vac. fitted shouldn't it be in bauxite livery? Interesting question that. Firstly as the standpipe is painted white it isn't fitted in any case but it would presumably have had a brake setter. i know - from seeing them regularly - that at the mid 1960s fitted GW pattern vans were definitely painted bauxite (they were by 19966 in use as vacuum head so they were obviously fitted). The problem however is in finding reliable pictures, especially colour pictures but there was a lot of discussion on RMweb some time back about the six-wheel van which ended its days allocated to the Bridport branch (and was photo'd in BR times) it definitely had vacuum bags (and steam pipes!!) but the discussion concluded that it was probably painted grey. Some sources have stated that Western piped vans were painted bauxite and that was very definitely the case with BR Standard vans so logically, depending on Swindon etc's paint stocks, it is quite likely that Western piped vans might have been painted bauxite, Hunt to start now for colour pictures - 7 books just checked and no firm information one way or another; most Western vans which can be seen were grey and only one was Bauxite but the pipes aren't visible on any of them. Another book has numerous b&w illustrations and some are probably the wrong shade to be grey so I assume bauxite however the notes refer to late build piped vans being painted bauxite. Balance of evidence found thus far suggests that piped vans were probably painted bauxite. But did every works repairing wagons follow the rules? 1 6 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted August 28, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 28, 2021 (edited) 13 hours ago, The Stationmaster said: Interesting question that. Firstly as the standpipe is painted white it isn't fitted in any case but it would presumably have had a brake setter. i know - from seeing them regularly - that at the mid 1960s fitted GW pattern vans were definitely painted bauxite (they were by 19966 in use as vacuum head so they were obviously fitted). The problem however is in finding reliable pictures, especially colour pictures but there was a lot of discussion on RMweb some time back about the six-wheel van which ended its days allocated to the Bridport branch (and was photo'd in BR times) it definitely had vacuum bags (and steam pipes!!) but the discussion concluded that it was probably painted grey. Some sources have stated that Western piped vans were painted bauxite and that was very definitely the case with BR Standard vans so logically, depending on Swindon etc's paint stocks, it is quite likely that Western piped vans might have been painted bauxite, Hunt to start now for colour pictures - 7 books just checked and no firm information one way or another; most Western vans which can be seen were grey and only one was Bauxite but the pipes aren't visible on any of them. Another book has numerous b&w illustrations and some are probably the wrong shade to be grey so I assume bauxite however the notes refer to late build piped vans being painted bauxite. Balance of evidence found thus far suggests that piped vans were probably painted bauxite. But did every works repairing wagons follow the rules? Thanks Mike. I have two or three bauxite brake vans but this isn't one of them! As I said, I'm leaving it alone as removing the pipes would certainly spoil the finish on the ends. Point taken about the white pipes too. In fact, the only reason I decided to fit the lamps was because the previous owner had added side lamps of entirely the wrong type, which left some paint damage when I removed them. Rather than try to repair the damage, I just glued a different pair of lamps on. As and when I weather the van eventually, I might remove the pipes and hide the mess with white china-clay dust. Edited August 28, 2021 by St Enodoc 9 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted August 28, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 28, 2021 Here's a thought on the brake van: Fitted = bauxite. Piped = grey. Yes/no/maybe? 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 5BarVT Posted August 28, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 28, 2021 That was my thought too. Don’t know enough to say a definite yes or no. Paul. 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post St Enodoc Posted August 28, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted August 28, 2021 (edited) I wired up the Barry slip and the track from Treloggan Junction to Polperran 6 road today. First I soldered the droppers to the rails, then connected the frog wires and the "PP front" and "PP back" bus wires to their respective droppers. Next, I installed a new spur off the accessory bus. This goes through a switch, as do all the other spurs, to minimise any risk of overload at power-up but so far I haven't fitted a circuit breaker to the new spur. I'll do that when all the points at the right-hand end are installed and wired, since the spur will be daisy-chained to each of them in turn.. Then I wired up the point motors themselves and programmed them. That went well enough once I'd remembered how to use address 197 to swap between Normal and Reverse. On the Barry slip, like any other slip, the motor at one end switches the frog at the other. Like a single slip, you have to set both ends to run through - even if the train doesn't pass over one set of switch blades both frogs need to be at the correct polarity. I've decided that the straight position for both sets of switches is Normal, so to run from Treloggan Junction to 6 road needs point 705 reversed and 706 Normal. Here's the whole formation in context. I ran the long china-clay train in and out a couple of times without problems, so tomorrow I plan to carry on with 707 and 708 points and 7 and 8 roads. Edited June 29, 2022 by St Enodoc images restored 16 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chamby Posted August 28, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 28, 2021 2 hours ago, St Enodoc said: Here's a thought on the brake van: Fitted = bauxite. Piped = grey. Yes/no/maybe? My understanding is: Unfitted = grey Fitted = bauxite with red pipe upstand Piped = bauxite with white pipe upstand. Piped brake vans could be used to apply the brakes on their trains, but the van itself was not fitted with vacuum brakes. Hence the bauxite colour is determined by functionality rather than fitting. I don’t have access to primary reference sources though, or knowledge of any regional variations, so may stand corrected. 3 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Gough Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 Thank goodness my period is 1930s - so no question - they are all grey! 4 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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