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Mid-Cornwall Lines - 1950s Western Region in 00


St Enodoc
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3 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

Hmm ... not so sure. It feels more 'railway like' for it to be at the side of the running lines rather than in between them.

 

Would it be possible to locate it on the other side of the lines altogether so that it's on the outside of the curve? That would give the real life signalman a better view of trains approaching the station? (Although I appreciate that the 180deg curve is probably for model railway convenience rather than portraying an aspect of the prototype)

Thanks Graham. That's also an option - see above. As it happens, the approach to the real Bugle was dead straight at the Up end and the box was indeed on the Down side...

 

I'll make my mind up later.

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9 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

It feels more 'railway like' for it to be at the side of the running lines rather than in between them.

Generally Yes, but surprisingly often No.

Westbury N was between the lines (albeit with windows at the back) as was Wolverhampton South.  Taunton West Station too, but that was four track.  Truro East has already been mentioned.

For a small place like St. Enodoc it could probably be managed anyway.  Signalman needed to be outside the box for token exchange so could observe tail lamp of down train whilst out there.  Up train could be seen from the box before clearing into section for the down, or confirm with guard if down train needed to be away first.

There are ways to manage it if required!

Paul.

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3 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

Generally Yes, but surprisingly often No.

Westbury N was between the lines (albeit with windows at the back) as was Wolverhampton South.  Taunton West Station too, but that was four track.  Truro East has already been mentioned.

For a small place like St. Enodoc it could probably be managed anyway.  Signalman needed to be outside the box for token exchange so could observe tail lamp of down train whilst out there.  Up train could be seen from the box before clearing into section for the down, or confirm with guard if down train needed to be away first.

There are ways to manage it if required!

Paul.

Thanks Paul. There were at least a couple of others in Cornwall - St Agnes and Perranporth - so it's still an option.

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Yes, I had been thinking of St Agnes and Perranporth.  I think my contribution to the discussion would be to consider the fictional history of St Endoc station, as both Bugle and St Agnes track layouts were substantially reconstructed. Therefore if St Endoc had been expanded, like Bugle, then the signal box may be in a positional that was optimal for the first track layout but less so for the second - perhaps the key consideration is whether the track plan changes would have required a new larger lever frame that was too big for the original box. If the box was to be replaced with a larger one then it might (but might not) have been resited. 

 

Duncan

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1 minute ago, drduncan said:

Yes, I had been thinking of St Agnes and Perranporth.  I think my contribution to the discussion would be to consider the fictional history of St Endoc station, as both Bugle and St Agnes track layouts were substantially reconstructed. Therefore if St Endoc had been expanded, like Bugle, then the signal box may be in a positional that was optimal for the first track layout but less so for the second - perhaps the key consideration is whether the track plan changes would have required a new larger lever frame that was too big for the original box. If the box was to be replaced with a larger one then it might (but might not) have been resited. 

 

Duncan

That's a good point, Duncan - thanks.

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On 22/01/2021 at 23:27, Ashley Bridge said:

How tall is that kid in the green jumper! 

 

Not as tall as the previous owner of the pants he is wearing.

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3 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Today I turned off my woodworking head and turned on my tracklaying head for the first time in over a year.

 

1196975209_20210124001PM-SEpointssetout.JPG.08d9c9d077f26ab9b1182e46c9bda0ec.JPG

 

Ah!!! the poorly vacuum cleaner with its bandage on its trunk.

 

I hope it gets better soon.

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33 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Ah!!! the poorly vacuum cleaner with its bandage on its trunk.

 

I hope it gets better soon.

Yes, it's a bit worse for wear I'm afraid. Very good for sucking up ballast into a nylon stocking though.

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3 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Very good for sucking up ballast into a nylon stocking though.

 

Hopefully NOT whilst you're wearing them ! :stinker:

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4 hours ago, bgman said:

 

Hopefully NOT whilst you're wearing them ! :stinker:

Hi Big G

 

We know that those living in the Antipodes can have some strange habits but as far as I know the wearing of ladies stockings isn't one of them unlike the men folk of Devon are know to do.

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7 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

as far as I know the wearing of ladies stockings isn't one of them unlike the men folk of Devon are know to do.

 

Keep up at the back!

These days they are called "runner's leggings". 

Essential comfort wear for hard working Devon trawler and farming folk.

Or me, on a 10 mile runs on snowy days like today.

 

Some might say we should save the ladies stockings for when we visit the bank and they insist we must wear a mask.

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7 hours ago, bgman said:

 

Hopefully NOT whilst you're wearing them ! :stinker:

 

2 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Big G

 

We know that those living in the Antipodes can have some strange habits but as far as I know the wearing of ladies stockings isn't one of them unlike the men folk of Devon are know to do.

You might think that; I couldn't possibly comment.

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Back to signalbox positions...

 

As the (or one of the) resident signalman I feel my input might be valued.
I current work a in number of boxes within Melbourne. These have a wide variety of positions comparative to running lines. Some are located next to running lines, some between them, some on the platforms and some no where near train lines whatsoever (unfortunately the latter is the standard for any new locations built).

 

I can say with 100% confidence, it doesn't matter where the signalbox is located, you're always going to have a blind spot.
Whether that's 'behind the box', round the bend or because of some bl**dy infrastructure in the way!

My personal preference (both for your model and in prototype) is for the box to be in the middle of the running lines.
There's something satisfying about having trains clattering passed you on either side, and being able to look straight down the line to anything approaching.

 

Below are some pictures of the box I've been currently working at for the past few weeks:

thumbnail_FB_IMG_1568377195954.jpg.0aef7a236eef6b623bba0839fdf0f789.jpg

 

Caulfield Box in 1933, shown positioned between the running lines. This was taken shortly after the new power box (with miniature frame) had taken over the two mechanical boxes.
Sadly the miniature frame was decommissioned in the 90s and is now a 'state of the art' computer panel.

 

thumbnail_20210125_080945_HDR.jpg.32f29c2931f72c68cc0c378a396b5112.jpg

 

And this is the view from the signal box as of 08:09 hrs this morning. This view is looking towards where the photographer of the previous picture was standing nearly 80 years prior.
As you can see the position of the box offers a fantastic over view of the Down junction.

 

Back to models, I also think the signal box positioned in between the running lines is more ascetically pleasing.
The signaller also has a clearer view of all lines within his control from this location. He would struggle to see what is in the loop or what's in the back platform if the box was in front of the operator.

I personally think it would be very difficult to have something 'disappear' behind a box of that size.
This is also what Sleeves/collars were invented for and signalman should use them accordingly.

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Sharky said:

Back to signalbox positions...

 

As the (or one of the) resident signalman I feel my input might be valued.
I current work a in number of boxes within Melbourne. These have a wide variety of positions comparative to running lines. Some are located next to running lines, some between them, some on the platforms and some no where near train lines whatsoever (unfortunately the latter is the standard for any new locations built).

 

I can say with 100% confidence, it doesn't matter where the signalbox is located, you're always going to have a blind spot.
Whether that's 'behind the box', round the bend or because of some bl**dy infrastructure in the way!

My personal preference (both for your model and in prototype) is for the box to be in the middle of the running lines.
There's something satisfying about having trains clattering passed you on either side, and being able to look straight down the line to anything approaching.

 

Below are some pictures of the box I've been currently working at for the past few weeks:

thumbnail_FB_IMG_1568377195954.jpg.0aef7a236eef6b623bba0839fdf0f789.jpg

 

Caulfield Box in 1933, shown positioned between the running lines. This was taken shortly after the new power box (with miniature frame) had taken over the two mechanical boxes.
Sadly the miniature frame was decommissioned in the 90s and is now a 'state of the art' computer panel.

 

thumbnail_20210125_080945_HDR.jpg.32f29c2931f72c68cc0c378a396b5112.jpg

 

And this is the view from the signal box as of 08:09 hrs this morning. This view is looking towards where the photographer of the previous picture was standing nearly 80 years prior.
As you can see the position of the box offers a fantastic over view of the Down junction.

 

Back to models, I also think the signal box positioned in between the running lines is more ascetically pleasing.
The signaller also has a clearer view of all lines within his control from this location. He would struggle to see what is in the loop or what's in the back platform if the box was in front of the operator.

I personally think it would be very difficult to have something 'disappear' behind a box of that size.
This is also what Sleeves/collars were invented for and signalman should use them accordingly.

 

 

A quiet morning peak then?

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When it comes to a box surrounded by lines, St E may recall Longhedge Junction. This had control of four lines in front of it, with crossings between them, which saw very little use in the peaks, unless a freight was standing awaiting a path, and off-peak the traffic was distinctly modest for a box so close to Central London. Immediately behind the box were a pair of lightly-used lines, under others' control, I think, rising from Stewarts Lane to Pouparts Junction. Beyond those were seven more lines in very intensive use - leading to/from Waterloo. And virtually overhead were four more busy lines, leading from that same Pouparts Junction to Battersea Park and Victoria. It was a most odd feeling to be surrounded by busy railways and yet hardly a train under the box's control. Abolished circa 40 years ago. 

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Just now, Oldddudders said:

When it comes to a box surrounded by lines, St E may recall Longhedge Junction. This had control of four lines in front of it, with crossings between them, which saw very little use in the peaks, unless a freight was standing awaiting a path, and off-peak the traffic was distinctly modest for a box so close to Central London. Immediately behind the box were a pair of lightly-used lines, under others' control, I think, rising from Stewarts Lane to Pouparts Junction. Beyond those were seven more lines in very intensive use - leading to/from Waterloo. And virtually overhead were four more busy lines, leading from that same Pouparts Junction to Battersea Park and Victoria. It was a most odd feeling to be surrounded by busy railways and yet hardly a train under the box's control. Abolished circa 40 years ago. 

While I remember the complexity of all the routes/junctions around there, I can only remember a few by name and those are the Central Division ones (including Poupart's). However, as always, Google is your friend:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pouparts_Junction#/media/File:Clapham_Junction,_Stewarts_Lane,_Lavender_Hill_&_Longhedge_RJD_17.jpg

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Longhedge-Jun-Signalling-Signal-Box-Sidings-Railway-Plan-Diagram-Southern-Reg-/353274596886?autorefresh=true

 

I'm not even sure whether, when I worked on the Southern (1983 - 1985), the box was still open.

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On 23/01/2021 at 18:21, St Enodoc said:

I've just looked through Kernow's weekly newsletter and the Bachmann 94xx has arrived, so mine should be on its way south very soon.

It is indeed now on its way. Also in the box should be a Fordhampton signal box kit, which I plan to mix and match with the Ratio model to make Porthmellyn Road signal box.

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On 25/01/2021 at 20:55, St Enodoc said:

It is indeed now on its way. Also in the box should be a Fordhampton signal box kit, which I plan to mix and match with the Ratio model to make Porthmellyn Road signal box.


I’ve not made the Fordhampton (ex-Hornby) kit but I think it does have a window round the back at one end if needed - reference recent discussions.  I made the Metcalfe card kit GWR signal box as a standalone model a couple of years ago: it’s quite nice, but I don’t think it looks particularly Cornish though.

 

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
Edit for text only as photos no longer exist
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6 minutes ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

I’ve not made the Fordhampton (ex-Hornby) kit but I think it does have a window round the back at one end if needed - reference recent discussions.

Yes, being a model of Dunster, it does. Its biggest fault is that the roof pitch is way too flat.

 

When I exhibited the original St Enodoc branch terminus I was often asked how I'd detailed the Hornby signal box...

 

My plan for Porthmellyn Road is to use the Ratio brick bases, the Fordhampton wooden walls, a mixture of windows and two Ratio roofs joined together to cobble up something that will give an impression of Par.

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On 24/01/2021 at 17:30, St Enodoc said:

Today I turned off my woodworking head and turned on my tracklaying head for the first time in over a year.

 

1196975209_20210124001PM-SEpointssetout.JPG.08d9c9d077f26ab9b1182e46c9bda0ec.JPG

After painting the track base and letting it dry over lunch, I set out the five points on the new section of line

 

 

John St E. I continue to be amazed at the amount and quality of your work, and the effort that you put into communicating it - as well as holding down a professional day job.  I have been retired now for a few years and struggle to get just a small task completed most days :o

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14 minutes ago, KymN said:

 

John St E. I continue to be amazed at the amount and quality of your work, and the effort that you put into communicating it - as well as holding down a professional day job.  I have been retired now for a few years and struggle to get just a small task completed most days :o

Thanks Kym, that's very kind.

 

Yes, I'm still working (until my mortgage account tells me I can stop) but now, through choice, only four days a week. As there hasn't been a lot of opportunity to do much else for the past year I have certainly spent more time on the layout and this has been reflected in the rate of progress. Working mostly from home has also given me more time at the start and end of the day to do odds and ends when I would otherwise have been commuting. Overall, I'd estimate that I've done about two normal years' worth of work since the beginning of last year. Don't worry though, I don't think I'm going to run out of things to do!

 

The biggest downside layout-wise is that I haven't been able to share the outcome of all this work with the other members of my operating team during a running session. Fingers crossed for March...

Edited by St Enodoc
speling
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