Mid-Cornwall Lines - 1950s Western Region in 00

[St Enodoc]

I won't be making any physical changes until after 13/8/16 as we have visitors coming that day who will want to play trains, so I think the staging of the Paddington remodelling will go something like this.

 

Start any time:

 

1. Finalise the revised layout for both Paddington and Penzance and draw it to scale on the layout project plan.

2. Connect the EB1 circuit breakers between the accessory bus and the two existing point decoder groups

3. Check (on the bench) whether or not two H&M point motors will work properly if driven by a single decoder.

4. Mark out the changes to the Paddington loops track layout.

5. Mark out the Penzance loops track layout. 

 

Start after 13/8/16:

 

6. If necessary (see task 3 above) change the two point motors at the Paddington Up end crossover (currently points 213 and 214) from H&M to SEEP.

7. Replace point 215, leading from the Up Main to the Paddington loops, by plain track.

8. Add the new connection between Paddington loops 13 and 14 (the current loop 12 and Up Main).

9. Add the new connection between Paddington loops 1 and 2 (the current Down Main and loop 1).

10. Remove and remodel Paddington Up end.

11. Replace the Paddington point control panel face and rewire as necessary.

12. Lay the Up end of the Penzance Up crossover using the recovered point 215.

13. Lay Penzance loop 13 between Penzance Up end (with a temporary connection to the Down Main) and Paddington Up end.

 

That will complete the remodelling of Paddington after which I can move on to Penzance as originally planned.

 

Any comments?

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

I won't be making any physical changes until after 13/8/16 as we have visitors coming that day who will want to play trains, so I think the staging of the Paddington remodelling will go something like this.

 

Start any time:

 

1. Finalise the revised layout for both Paddington and Penzance and draw it to scale on the layout project plan.

2. Connect the EB1 circuit breakers between the accessory bus and the two existing point decoder groups

3. Check (on the bench) whether or not two H&M point motors will work properly if driven by a single decoder.

4. Mark out the changes to the Paddington loops track layout.

5. Mark out the Penzance loops track layout. 

 

Start after 13/8/16:

 

6. If necessary (see task 3 above) change the two point motors at the Paddington Up end crossover (currently points 213 and 214) from H&M to SEEP.

7. Replace point 215, leading from the Up Main to the Paddington loops, by plain track.

8. Add the new connection between Paddington loops 13 and 14 (the current loop 12 and Up Main).

9. Add the new connection between Paddington loops 1 and 2 (the current Down Main and loop 1).

10. Remove and remodel Paddington Up end.

11. Replace the Paddington point control panel face and rewire as necessary.

12. Lay the Up end of the Penzance Up crossover using the recovered point 215.

13. Lay Penzance loop 13 between Penzance Up end (with a temporary connection to the Down Main) and Paddington Up end.

 

That will complete the remodelling of Paddington after which I can move on to Penzance as originally planned.

 

Any comments?

That order looks fine, go for it!

[LNER4479]

Hi John,

 

Been having a bit of catch up (I've been away you know!) and have just come across your dilemma re fiddle yard design.

 

All very interesting, as some of your conundrums (conundra?) strike a chord. The pic below was taken by Tony Wright at this year's Nottingham show. (that's Barry O, all a blur in the background!)

 

Like you, it is configured so that the two through lines are on the outside. We run all the non-stops round twice and the fiddle yard operators can 'fiddle' in the middle whilst that is going on. But it gives us the same problem in that anti-clockwise / Up / inside circuit trains have only one way of getting into the fiddle yard and that is bottom centre (to the right of the mug). From there they can get access to 8 of the 10 roads in the immediate 'South' yard (ie King's Cross). If they want to get through to the North yard (in the background) then they use the straight on road from the double slip ('South 3'), followed by a double right-left wiggle(!) to get to the king point of the North yard (Lincoln/Boston and GNML/ECML north). South roads 1 & 2 are for northbound trains only - South 2 holds the Scotch Goods which we only run once during the sequence; South 3 holds Teak Set 5 which runs northbound three times, and is remarshaled between each.

 

I guess I'm just empathising really but one or two aspects might stimulate the grey cells further whilst you're still sleeping on it.

 

I guess also there is no one 'perfect' design of fiddle yard. At least with Grantham it's fairly easy to chop and change it around and we have already done a couple of such changes but otherwise we're learning to live with its imperfections!

[St Enodoc]

Hi John,

 

Been having a bit of catch up (I've been away you know!) and have just come across your dilemma re fiddle yard design.

 

All very interesting, as some of your conundrums (conundra?) strike a chord. The pic below was taken by Tony Wright at this year's Nottingham show. (that's Barry O, all a blur in the background!)

 

Grantham 8 18 fiddle yard.jpg

Like you, it is configured so that the two through lines are on the outside. We run all the non-stops round twice and the fiddle yard operators can 'fiddle' in the middle whilst that is going on. But it gives us the same problem in that anti-clockwise / Up / inside circuit trains have only one way of getting into the fiddle yard and that is bottom centre (to the right of the mug). From there they can get access to 8 of the 10 roads in the immediate 'South' yard (ie King's Cross). If they want to get through to the North yard (in the background) then they use the straight on road from the double slip ('South 3'), followed by a double right-left wiggle(!) to get to the king point of the North yard (Lincoln/Boston and GNML/ECML north). South roads 1 & 2 are for northbound trains only - South 2 holds the Scotch Goods which we only run once during the sequence; South 3 holds Teak Set 5 which runs northbound three times, and is remarshaled between each.

 

I guess I'm just empathising really but one or two aspects might stimulate the grey cells further whilst you're still sleeping on it.

 

I guess also there is no one 'perfect' design of fiddle yard. At least with Grantham it's fairly easy to chop and change it around and we have already done a couple of such changes but otherwise we're learning to live with its imperfections!

Graham, that is indeed very helpful. Your basic configuration looks very similar to mine topologically, although straightened out of course and different in detail - I have, for example, avoided slips and tandems in the off-stage area.

 

I did a bit more doodling at lunchtime today to see if facing crossovers at the outer ends made more sense than trailing but for various reasons I decided that they did not, so I will stay with where I was last week. I'm still tempted to leave the "dotted" tracks in as suggested last week by Stubby47, but that would definitely lead to too many routes for a single Mini Panel at each end. However, I might well leave the plain track in place, but isolated physically, to future-proof the arrangement so that if I ever do trade up to a full Power Pro I can fit extra Mini Panels without reducing the number of throttles. That would restore the ability to circulate round either track while a move between the loops and the other track was taking place.

 

I like your idea of running trains round twice. I think David Jenkinson used to do that at exhibitions with Garsdale Road, his theory being that folk might spot something interesting on the first circuit and so could take a closer look on the second.

 

Anyway, I set it all out to scale on the layout project plan this evening and it will fit, although squeezing in some of the new points will mean losing the smoothness of a couple of the curves. I think the die is now cast and I will start the rest of the preparatory work so that I can get cracking with the physical changes in three weeks time.

 

By the way, you don't often see "Barry O" and "all a blur" in the same sentence. Tony must have used a very long exposure.

[Barry O]

Cheeky!

[St Enodoc]

Having slept on this, I have now realised that I am designing the layout to suit the control system rather than the other way round. The critical factor is the limited capacity of the SB5 for throttles and other inputs, which is holding me back from getting more Mini Panels as that would reduce the number of cabs I can use accordingly. To a lesser extent the limited number of macros is also a constraint.

 

As a result, I think I will spend a bit more of the children's inheritance and upgrade to the equivalent of a full Power Pro system. I think I can do this by getting a CS-02 command station and using the existing SB5 as the booster, or by getting a PH-Box combined command station/booster. The second alternative should let me use the existing SB5 as a dumb booster for the accessory bus, so I am inclined to go this way rather than buy another SB5 later.

 

Can anyone see any flaws in this idea or is there anything that I have missed?

[acg5324]

None as far as a the children's inheritance is concerned

[LNER4479]

Having slept on this, I have now realised that I am designing the layout to suit the control system rather than the other way round. The critical factor is the limited capacity of the SB5 for throttles and other inputs, which is holding me back from getting more Mini Panels as that would reduce the number of cabs I can use accordingly. To a lesser extent the limited number of macros is also a constraint.

 

As a result, I think I will spend a bit more of the children's inheritance and upgrade to the equivalent of a full Power Pro system. I think I can do this by getting a CS-02 command station and using the existing SB5 as the booster, or by getting a PH-Box combined command station/booster. The second alternative should let me use the existing SB5 as a dumb booster for the accessory bus, so I am inclined to go this way rather than buy another SB5 later.

?Que?

 

Sorry, I didn't understand a word of that! Agree re spending the Little Persons' inheritance though

 

Anna Logdynosaw

[St Enodoc]

?Que?

 

Sorry, I didn't understand a word of that! Agree re spending the Little Persons' inheritance though

 

Anna Logdynosaw

It's a trick we use in consulting engineering. If you don't know what you are talking about, just make it sound as though you do. All it really means is that if I spend more money I can do more stuff.

 

S. Mokeandmirrors.

[LNER4479]

It's a trick we use in consulting engineering. If you don't know what you are talking about, just make it sound as though you do. All it really means is that if I spend more money I can do more stuff.

Hmm! Many a true work spoken in jest... 

[St Enodoc]

Here we are with what I think might be the final answer.

 

 

I've almost come full circle in that, by reinstating Stu's Dotted Bits (shown hatched on the sketches), the outer ends of the loops remain unchanged from how they are now - which is good. There will be six extra crossovers, not shown on the sketches, that give access to and from the inner ends. To achieve this, the former Up and Down Mains on either side of the loops will now be bidirectional so I have dropped the Up and Down designations and they will just be known as loops 1 and 14. They will need to be kept clear, as before, so train storage will be confined to loops 2 to 13.

 

The average length of the Penzance loops is now about 3500 mm and of the Paddington loops about 3800 mm.

 

Given the size and shape of the room, this is probably as good as it will get.

 

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and encouragement.

Edited July 21, 2023 by St Enodoc
images restored

[Barry O]

starting to look more Grantham like - it should work fine St Enodoc...

 

Baz

[St Enodoc]

starting to look more Grantham like - it should work fine St Enodoc...

 

Baz

Thanks Baz - I hope so! You can find out for yourself in about 18 months' time.

[The Stationmaster]

Here we are with what I think might be the final answer.

 

20160726 001 Penzance - Paddington schematic proposed 3.jpg

 

20160726 002 Penzance - Paddington schematic proposed semi-geographic 3.jpg

I've almost come full circle in that, by reinstating Stu's Dotted Bits (shown hatched on the sketches), the outer ends of the loops remain unchanged from how they are now - which is good. There will be six extra crossovers, not shown on the sketches, that give access to and from the inner ends. To achieve this, the former Up and Down Mains on either side of the loops will now be bidirectional so I have dropped the Up and Down designations and they will just be known as loops 1 and 14. They will need to be kept clear, as before, so train storage will be confined to loops 2 to 13.

 

The average length of the Penzance loops is now about 3500 mm and of the Paddington loops about 3800 mm.

 

Given the size and shape of the room, this is probably as good as it will get.

 

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and encouragement.

 

Definitely keep those hatched bits of track - their absence would be a distinct b*ggeration factor if you just want to sit back and let trains circulate in both directions.

[St Enodoc]

Definitely keep those hatched bits of track - their absence would be a distinct b*ggeration factor if you just want to sit back and let trains circulate in both directions.

Thanks Mike. Yes, they are back in for good now.

[St Enodoc]

The changes to the layout actually simplify the Paddington remodelling staging plan, which now looks something like this:

 

Start any time:

 

1. Finalise the revised layout for both Paddington and Penzance and draw it to scale on the layout project plan. Done.

2. Connect the EB1 circuit breakers between the accessory bus and the two existing point decoder groups

3. Check (on the bench) whether or not two H&M point motors will work properly if driven by a single decoder. No longer necessary.

34. Mark out the changes to the Paddington loops track layout.

45. Mark out the Penzance loops track layout. 

 

Start after 13/8/16:

 

6. If necessary (see task 3 above) change the two point motors at the Paddington Up end crossover (currently points 213 and 214) from H&M to SEEP. No longer necessary.

7. Replace point 215, leading from the Up Main to the Paddington loops, by plain track. No longer necessary.

58. Add the new connection between Paddington loops 13 and 14 (the current loop 12 and Up Main).

69. Add the new connection between Paddington loops 1 and 2 (the current Down Main and loop 1).

710. Remove and remodel Paddington Up end.

811. Replace the Paddington point control panel face and rewire as necessary.

912. Lay the Y-point in the Down Main at Up end of the Penzance Up end crossover using the recovered point 215.

1013. Lay a temporary connection between Penzance loop 1413 and the Down Main Y-point at between Penzance Up end (with a temporary connection to the Down Main) and Paddington Up end.

Edited July 26, 2016 by St Enodoc

[St Enodoc]

Having slept on this, I have now realised that I am designing the layout to suit the control system rather than the other way round. The critical factor is the limited capacity of the SB5 for throttles and other inputs, which is holding me back from getting more Mini Panels as that would reduce the number of cabs I can use accordingly. To a lesser extent the limited number of macros is also a constraint.

 

As a result, I think I will spend a bit more of the children's inheritance and upgrade to the equivalent of a full Power Pro system. I think I can do this by getting a CS-02 command station and using the existing SB5 as the booster, or by getting a PH-Box combined command station/booster. The second alternative should let me use the existing SB5 as a dumb booster for the accessory bus, so I am inclined to go this way rather than buy another SB5 later.

 

Can anyone see any flaws in this idea or is there anything that I have missed?

One NCE PH-Box now on order, following very helpful feedback here and on the NCE-DCC Yahoo group.

[islandbridgejct]

Henry T. Forbes* suggests that you might be able to use a single outlet on the Mini Panels to drive the motors to set a road for both the Paddington and Penzance yards at the same time - eg, outlet 2 drives the points to access storage road 2 in both Paddington and Penzance. Provided you kept the access to the yards independent, you could set roads 2 to 13 in both yards in this way. You'd have to remember not to try to set a road in Penzance while you had a train moving in or out of Paddinton though, to avoid the carnage.

 

It's not too late to cancel that nice PH Box ....

 

Alan

 

* Chief engineer of the CDRJC and a noted master of economy / money saver / skinflint (delete as preferred.) By the time he had finished saving money, the railway was so run down it had to be closed, but only about 3 or 4 years before it would have been anyway. There may be a cautionary tale here, but I'm not clever enough to figure it out.

[St Enodoc]

Henry T. Forbes* suggests that you might be able to use a single outlet on the Mini Panels to drive the motors to set a road for both the Paddington and Penzance yards at the same time - eg, outlet 2 drives the points to access storage road 2 in both Paddington and Penzance. Provided you kept the access to the yards independent, you could set roads 2 to 13 in both yards in this way. You'd have to remember not to try to set a road in Penzance while you had a train moving in or out of Paddinton though, to avoid the carnage.

 

It's not too late to cancel that nice PH Box ....

 

Alan

 

* Chief engineer of the CDRJC and a noted master of economy / money saver / skinflint (delete as preferred.) By the time he had finished saving money, the railway was so run down it had to be closed, but only about 3 or 4 years before it would have been anyway. There may be a cautionary tale here, but I'm not clever enough to figure it out.

That's very interesting Alan - thanks, even though I haven't quite worked out yet whether you are being serious or not. Notwithstanding, the PH-Box is definitely on order as I would have needed to upgrade eventually - it's just coming sooner rather than later.

 

Didn't I read somewhere that every time the Wee Donegal closed a section of line it ended up making more money?

[St Enodoc]

Here are the before and after layouts for the area where the loops overlap.

 

In the original layout you can see that the Penzance loops on the right fit inside the Paddington loops at the bottom.

 

In the revised layout (for which this is only a working drawing hence the numerous erasures and corrections) the Paddington loops fit inside the Penzance loops. You can also see two of the six extra crossovers, one at the bottom left and the other at the top right.

 

The other four new crossovers are at the outer ends of the loops, two each at Paddington and Penzance, connecting loops 1 and 14 in each case to the respective throats and hence to or from either of the main lines at both ends.

 

Even as I look at this I think I can simplify the layouts further by taking out four of the six extra crossovers, leaving only the one between Penzance loops 14 and 13 at Penzance Up end and the one between Penzance loops 1 and 2 at Paddington Down end.

 

More to mull over while I watch the Super Rugby semi-finals this evening...

Edited July 21, 2023 by St Enodoc
images restored

[islandbridgejct]

Do you know, I'm not sure if I was serious either.

 

I can't comment on the economics of the Wee Donegal, but I don't think anyone else ever understood them either.

 

If you put a hump at one end of the yard, you could use it for gravity shunting. (It's Saturday evening - now I'm definitely not being serious. Carry on and pay no heed.)

 

Alan

[St Enodoc]

Do you know, I'm not sure if I was serious either.

 

I can't comment on the economics of the Wee Donegal, but I don't think anyone else ever understood them either.

 

If you put a hump at one end of the yard, you could use it for gravity shunting. (It's Saturday evening - now I'm definitely not being serious. Carry on and pay no heed.)

 

Alan

Thanks Alan. Gravity shunting in 00 can be, how can I put this, "interesting" as Barry O and others of this parish can testify - Mike Edge's Cwmafon refers.

[St Enodoc]

First things first - two good semi-finals last night with plenty of tries. No spoilers, but let me just say that there will be at least one New Zealand team in next week's final (this isn't much of a giveaway seeing as three of the four semi-finalists were from NZ).

 

 

Here is the final (maybe?) configuration of the loops. I've coloured them in so that I can see more clearly how the routes work. The pink lines (my red felt-tip had dried out) are where movements are normally only in the Down direction, the green lines are where movements are normally only in the Up direction and the orange lines are bi-directional. The only new sections of track (as distinct from the flipped loops) are the two crossovers I mentioned yesterday, which give me all the routing options as with the original plan plus the ability to get out of Paddington in the Up direction and out of Penzance in the Down direction (yes, I know, I know...). Two trains can also circulate on the main lines which will please me and Mike the Stationmaster.

 

Interestingly, all this means that a single Mini Panel at each of Paddington and Penzance will be enough. Penzance now has exactly 30 routes and although Paddington has 31, one of these (from the Up Main to Paddington loop 14) only fires one point motor coil so I will drive that direct from the push button to the decoder.

 

 

I fitted some EB1s to the accessory bus today which was very successful, although I need one more to finish off the present set-up. I also marked out the flipped loops in red so that I will be able to see which are the old lines and which the new.

 

Finally I had a little testing session, running all 12 trains plus the railbus round the Down Main while the Limited was circulating on the Up. All went well, although one of the Hornby Hawksworth BGs seems to have a jammed close-coupling cam. I was especially pleased with the goods trains which trundled round sedately without derailing and without grinding to a halt with a slipping loco. That bodes well for the future.

Edited July 21, 2023 by St Enodoc
images restored

[St Enodoc]

Last night's Super Rugby final was a bit disappointing, with a gale and rain in Wellington preventing either side from playing expansive rugby. Still, the result was a fair reflection of who was the better team on the night.

 

Earlier in the day I went along to our monthly BRMA meeting. The layout we visited this month features a four-track main line with a 10-platform terminus, a large MPD and a low-level fiddle yard. Some photos of the layout are on Anthony Ashley's North Welsh Coast Railway topic http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/71151-north-welsh-coast-railway-welsh-dragon-rail/page-23 for example. A highlight for me was to see (and hear!) the Rapido APT-E in action.

 

Back on the Mid-Cornwall Lines I fitted another EB1 so all the decoder groups now protect the SB5 individually. Apart from that, and moving the RB02 to the back of the baseboard rather than the front, I did nothing other than checking that both layouts worked properly before our visitors come on Saturday. Of course, it will be a different story when they are actually here.

Edited August 7, 2016 by St Enodoc

[St Enodoc]

As predicted, we got off to a bad start today when the visitors came (the visitors being the BRMA National Committee). Last Sunday, the last thing I did was to select every route at Paddington to make sure that the points were throwing fully. Today, the first thing I did was to select every route at Paddington to make sure that the points were throwing fully.

 

What did I find? One of the push buttons had disintegrated into its component parts. It just happened to be the button that selects the route from all six loops to the Down Main - marvellous.

 

So I spent the afternoon shorting out the contacts every time we wanted to run a train out of the Down loops onto the main. Grrrr...

 

Tomorrow I plan to start the reconfiguration of the Paddington loops by lifting the Up end tracks. Having built the extra point I need during the week, the basic reconfiguration shouldn't take too many weekends.