Mid-Cornwall Lines - 1950s Western Region in 00

[Regularity]

2 hours ago, Barry O said:

got any photos you can post of this size of ballast in situ on a 4mm layout?

 

Baz

I wouldn’t use it.

 

I used some about that size (2mm in size, not scale) on main track, and 2mm (“scale”, about 1mm) in yards about 1978. The contrast was good, but even as someone barely into his teens, I knew it didn’t look like the real thing - but it was better than Peco foam underlay. Didn’t take any photos. Probably just as well: I like to think my modelling has improved… 

Since then, it has been ash ballast prototypes for me ever since, which has its own issues.

 

But put it this way, would you fit 48mm diameter driving wheels on a GER Buckjumper, for example, in place of 16mm? It’s the same degree of error.

 

Prototype ballast sizes was shared with me, and other members of what was then the SGMRS nearly 40 years ago: John will have access to this source (Ian Pusey’s memorable piece in 1982, John), but the information is readily available, e.g. http://igg.org.uk/rail/2-track/02track1.htm, which states that real ballast is between ¾” and 1¾” in size (I was s-raking from vague memory before), or if you prefer, in 4mm scale it will fall through a 0.6mm mesh, but not through 0.25mm.

 

Here’s a link to their webpage photo:

https://www.tracklay.co.uk/product/oo-ballast-chippings-from

Here’s a photo of the real thing:

 

I think the difference is obvious.

[Martin S-C]

1 hour ago, Regularity said:

Since then, it has been ash ballast prototypes for me ever since, which has its own issues.

Now this sentence made me prick up my ears! I plan to use ash ballast within my station limits as well and would be interested to hear yours (or anyone else's) methods and materials for representing it at 4mm scale.

For the moment my (theoretical) intent is to use the finest 2mm scale ballast I can get and then dust in extra fine particles such as Chinchilla dust or even ash from incense sticks (of which I have been assiduously collecting a big tub over several years). It needs to be deep enough and fine enough to make the sleepers disappear.

Thus:


The biggie though is how to keep all this fine - dust like - material stuck down without it turning into a depressing gloop via surface tension.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Martin S-C

[Nick C]

20 minutes ago, Martin S-C said:

Now this sentence made me prick up my ears! I plan to use ash ballast within my station limits as well and would be interested to hear yours (or anyone else's) methods and materials for representing it at 4mm scale.

http://nevardmedia.blogspot.com/2011/08/creating-effect-of-ash-ballast.html

 

I tried laying some on a test piece last night, I'll report back later as to how it looks once dry...

[Regularity]

1 hour ago, Martin S-C said:

Now this sentence made me prick up my ears! I plan to use ash ballast within my station limits as well and would be interested to hear yours (or anyone else's) methods and materials for representing it at 4mm scale.

For the moment my (theoretical) intent is to use the finest 2mm scale ballast I can get and then dust in extra fine particles such as Chinchilla dust or even ash from incense sticks (of which I have been assiduously collecting a big tub over several years). It needs to be deep enough and fine enough to make the sleepers disappear.

Thus:


The biggie though is how to keep all this fine - dust like - material stuck down without it turning into a depressing gloop via surface tension.

Ah, you have noticed the same problem as I have!

I used Woodland Scenics “fine cinders”, which I felt to be a touch coarse (it kept swearing at me) but it did at least provide some bulk underneath the surface. I am a lay track first, add ballast (mush) later person, so the ballast was laid dry, given a good wetting with water+a drop of washing up liquid, then diluted PVA added. It wasn’t great - and if you put too much glue on, it tries to float away - and in desperation, I applied some WS “fine turf” to absorb the moisture more. Because I didn’t want weed-infested ballast, I waited until it dried and slopped blank ink over it, which was absorbed and seemed to do the trick. 
Mind you, this was 24 years ago: there have been numerous false starts since, and I am impressed with what Chris Nevard achieved with air-drying clay, but I think a substrate of 2mm scale fine ballast might be an idea to bulk things up, otherwise it gets expensive!

For a G1 diorama, I used the fine cinders as was and felt it was reasonably ok, in this instance laid directly onto PVA brushed between the sleepers.

 

[KeithMacdonald]

1 hour ago, Martin S-C said:

Now this sentence made me prick up my ears! I plan to use ash ballast within my station limits as well and would be interested to hear yours (or anyone else's) methods and materials for representing it at 4mm scale.

 

Have you tried using wood ash?

 

The way I tried it was best done outdoors on a windless day.

1) spread a thick layer of glue on bare wood board (in the chosen area)

2) sprinkle the wood ash liberally onto the glue so it's well covered

3) press down with another piece of board

4) leave to dry

5) turn board upside down over vegetable patch (or other suitable area) and shake off all loose ash

 

Your results may vary depending on the type of wood ash.

[St Enodoc]

5 hours ago, Regularity said:

John will have access to this source (Ian Pusey’s memorable piece in 1982, John)

Just before my time, Simon. I joined in mid-1983. Wouldn't mind seeing a scan, though!

[St Enodoc]

4 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

Now this sentence made me prick up my ears! I plan to use ash ballast within my station limits as well and would be interested to hear yours (or anyone else's) methods and materials for representing it at 4mm scale.

For the moment my (theoretical) intent is to use the finest 2mm scale ballast I can get and then dust in extra fine particles such as Chinchilla dust or even ash from incense sticks (of which I have been assiduously collecting a big tub over several years). It needs to be deep enough and fine enough to make the sleepers disappear.

Thus:


The biggie though is how to keep all this fine - dust like - material stuck down without it turning into a depressing gloop via surface tension.

I've used builders' sand to cover larger areas such as goods yards. That sticks to PVA in the normal way without clumping.

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Have you tried using wood ash?

 

The way I tried it was best done outdoors on a windless day.

1) spread a thick layer of glue on bare wood board (in the chosen area)

2) sprinkle the wood ash liberally onto the glue so it's well covered

3) press down with another piece of board

4) leave to dry

5) turn board upside down over vegetable patch (or other suitable area) and shake off all loose ash

 

Your results may vary depending on the type of wood ash.

1 to 4 sound OK. I might have trouble with 5 though.

 

I do have a supply of ash from our wood-burning room heater so I'd be interested in how folk get on.

[ian]

30 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

1 to 4 sound OK. I might have trouble with 5 though.

 

But your boards are already upside down... 

[St Enodoc]

It's pouring with rain today, so I've stayed indoors and started fitting the signal box windows.

 

I began with the toilet window, as it is the smallest and most awkward to fit with the blank wall behind it.

 

First, I tacked the frame (which, you will recall, is fabricated from three Ratio 139 windows) in place with MEK.

 

For the glazing, I used my preferred material - empty CD covers. You have to be careful how you cut this, as it is more brittle than styrene sheet, but its extra thickness makes it rigid when installed. After trimming it to size, I did a dry run and marked it at the bottom of the top row of panes then obscured the three lower rows with a piece of self-adhesive address label, stuck to the inside. Finally I ran MEK round all the seams to fix everything in place, taking care not to unstick the four individual parts of the frame.

 

Because the inside of the toilet wall is white, and the roof isn't fitted yet, it's a bit hard to see the difference between the clear and obscured panes but checking with a piece of card across the top of the walls made it more obvious. Before you ask, I chickened out of making the top row open.

 

For the rest of the windows, I'll probably fit the glazing first then insert the windows from the outside afterwards. This will make it easier to get them nice and flush at the back.

Edited June 20, 2022 by St Enodoc
Images restored

[Regularity]

2 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Just before my time, Simon. I joined in mid-1983. Wouldn't mind seeing a scan, though!

Go to the members area, and you can access all Newsletters and Gazettes.

[aardvark]

7 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

Now this sentence made me prick up my ears! I plan to use ash ballast within my station limits as well and would be interested to hear yours (or anyone else's) methods and materials for representing it at 4mm scale.

 

 

Green Scenes 2mm & C&L thin-sleepered track. The different ballast in the middle was some florist sand I picked up and was comparing at the time.

[KingEdwardII]

7 hours ago, aardvark said:

The different ballast in the middle

That looks like a decent representation of an accidental coal spill

 

Yours, Mike.

[Tortuga]

I just scrolled up and glanced at that photo: until I reread the caption I thought it was the real thing!

 

Congratulations on your excellent ballasting and track work. Remind me is that C&L flexi track? 

[Martin S-C]

I'm stuck with Peco track as there's dozens of yards of it I lifted from the First Great Failed Project and I can see that thin-sleepered track such as C&L is a help here. Chris Nevard's method of dried clay seems to me a very labour intensive method. Between tracks I need to raise the surface and so cork sheet will fill that job. I'm aiming to make the ash ballast top coat as thin a skim of material as I can to reduce the amount I need; definitely the deep gaps between the Peco sleepers will need to be filled with something coarser and I have a giant sack of builders sand in the shed so using that (free, local) source looks like the obvious first choice, with something finer on top if needed. Though the builders sand is incredibly small diameter bits as it is. I don't have a micrometer but viewing these through a powerful magnifying lens against a steel rule edge I'd say they were under 0.25mm.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Martin S-C
EDIT: it's cork sheet, not cock sheet!

[Killybegs]

12 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I do have a supply of ash from our wood-burning room heater so I'd be interested in how folk get on.

 

I add a little soot to the ash to make it a bit darker. It turns out like this ......

 

[Chamby]

A reminder to wash sand before using it on model railways... it removes the salt residues that can leach out and cause damage over time.

[aardvark]

10 hours ago, Tortuga said:

Remind me is that C&L flexi track? 

 

Yes.

[Nick C]

On 25/11/2021 at 18:43, Nick C said:

http://nevardmedia.blogspot.com/2011/08/creating-effect-of-ash-ballast.html

 

I tried laying some on a test piece last night, I'll report back later as to how it looks once dry...

And here's how it looks. I'm not particularly happy with it to be honest. 

[St Enodoc]

By yesterday evening I'd finished fitting the windows to the signal box and touched up the paintwork.

 

The difference between the clear and obscured toilet window panes is more obvious with the roof clipped in place temporarily again.

 

The left-hand locking room window frame should be sitting at the bottom of its aperture, like the other two. I fixed it after I took the photo.

 

I also fitted some black styrene sheet as a light blocker, which stops you seeing right through the locking room and out the other side.

 

The next job is the interior, followed by external detailing after which I'll paint the roof, gutters and eaves. The final task will be to make up and fit @Harlequin Phil's superb nameboards.

 

Once I've built the platform, I can blend the box in then build and add the steps.

 

This afternoon I spent a few hours playing trains as intensively as I could on my own, with Up and Down main line trains, the railbus and both clay trains. I turned on all the signal and uncoupler power supplies as well. Everything worked perfectly, although until this is the case after several sessions, involving more operators, I can't really draw any more conclusions.

Edited June 20, 2022 by St Enodoc
Images restored

[St Enodoc]

On 28/11/2021 at 20:02, St Enodoc said:

Everything worked perfectly, although until this is the case after several sessions, involving more operators, I can't really draw any more conclusions.

Of course, if the system freezes while I'm using David's PH Box, that means that the problem is somewhere else.

[FarrMan]

Excuse my ignorance (I could get a PhD in ignorance if I could find somewhere that offered it). What is the purpose of cork under the track? Is it just to give the profile for the ballast, or is there more to it than that? If so, would cork sheeting be used in a goods yard or station area?

 

Lloyd

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, FarrMan said:

Excuse my ignorance (I could get a PhD in ignorance if I could find somewhere that offered it). What is the purpose of cork under the track? Is it just to give the profile for the ballast, or is there more to it than that? If so, would cork sheeting be used in a goods yard or station area?

 

Lloyd

Yes, Lloyd, it's really to bring the track up higher than the baseboard level and give the ballast a profile. On plain track I use DCC Concepts 3mm foam strip, which is ready-profiled, but for infill and larger areas I use cork as it's cheaper.

 

Noise-wise, the foam is quieter than the cork which in turn is quieter than the short lengths of ply at the ends of the lifting flap, which all makes for interesting, if accidental, variations in sound as the trains go round.

[St Enodoc]

I've started the interior for Porthmellyn Road signal box, using the very nicely moulded Ratio 553 parts (even though they're not based on WR equipment).

 

https://peco-uk.com/products/signal-box-interior-2

 

The moulded bases for the levers give a spacing of just under 3mm, which means that I can't fit all 54 in. I decided to use two of the 10-lever base mouldings, glued together end-to-end with a little trimming to make the spacing between levers 20 and 21 (almost) the same as the rest.

 

For the levers themselves, I've culled 3 out of 13 black point levers and 11 out of 31 red stop and subsidiary signal levers, leaving all 8 blue FPL levers and both yellow distant signal levers in. This will still represent fairly well the distribution of colours along the frame.

 

More when these are painted and assembled.

 

Separately, I've been sketching out some possible plans for the secret scenic feature. I'm not ready to reveal all yet though, so you'll still have to wait and see.

[Barry O]

Does it involve a certain aeroplane???

 

Just asking laike..