Class 800 - Updates

[jamie92208]

Or as happened when Mk 3 coaches for the HST were being tested in service on the ECML.  There was apparently a rather supercilious steward who didn't want a member of the commissioning team riding in one of his first class seats.  One day he went to the loo and when he emerged he'd "got his own back".   Apparently the problem related to airflow round the toilet waste pipe that was only found when two coaches were coupled together.   My friend said that it couldn't have happened to a nicer fellow.

 

Jamie

Edited November 21, 2017 by jamie92208

[Coryton]

'Engineer' has been a bastardised term for years, though; I well remember when the professional institution to which my father belonged changed its name from the Institute of Heating  Ventilating Engineers to that of the Building Services Engineers, presumably to break the link between them and your average gas boiler fitter.

 

Not to mention parts of the world where it means the person sitting at the front of the train.

 

I did travel on a (road) coach in the US once where a sign announced the name of the "steerologist". I'm sure this was a joke. Fairly sure. Well I hope it was.

[Fat Controller]

No they weren't although the 'Blue Pullmans' carried a fitter for much of their operational lives.  The other ones I do know about were Eurostar Class 373s which didn't actually carry fitters but invariably ran in their early days (basically the shadow running period prior to public service) with a couple of engineers who had a laptop computer which was tapped into the train's software and was used to rectify various faults and 'failures' (almost inevitably software related). At one very early point one wit almost suggested, probably occasionally a bit more than half truthfully, that the trains were being 'driven' on a laptop.

 

Basically I get the impression that most of the Class 800 problems we have heard about relate to the TMS - in other words the computer system which is responsible for much of what goes on in the train and possibly sensor inputs to the TMS.  As I said previously I think it is probably unavoidably inevitable, even in this day and age, that these sorts of issues are more likely to emerge during the early days of 'squadron service' as trains are running to full operational cycles and the passenger related stuff is required to be in operation which it might well not have been during the whole of the testing phase.  Other issues can emerge, or develop, as well - or simply become far more noticeable in their impact - once the trains are in service and subject to lots of things which are not encountered in mileage accumulation running.   Similarly full service running is more likely to encounter a range of weather conditions and there is a possibility that this can have an effect on at least one sensor area from what I have heard.

Perhaps these 'trouble-shooters' could be issued with white lab coats, giving them the air of cricket umpires. It would confuse the Japanese engineers no end to watch two white-coated gentlemen conversing with bizarre hand signals. 

Though the HSTs didn't have engineers on full-time during initial commercial operations, they seemed to be present when the problems with the cooling system started.

[D854_Tiger]

Perhaps these 'trouble-shooters' could be issued with white lab coats, giving them the air of cricket umpires. It would confuse the Japanese engineers no end to watch two white-coated gentlemen conversing with bizarre hand signals. 

Though the HSTs didn't have engineers on full-time during initial commercial operations, they seemed to be present when the problems with the cooling system started.

 

Before Virgin decided to put Royal Scots Grey back into main line service, they first ran a trail run with it on the first blimey-o-clock Brum -Glasgow train of the day.

 

The chap who's task for the day appeared to be looking after the locomotive was wearing a white coat.

 

I got the impression it was in keeping with some kind of tradition.

[Titan]

I realise that it isn't the point of the photo, but it's a fascinating train - with Mk 1, 2 and 3 coaches and that's just in the first three...

 

I must admit that I chose that photo over one that illustrated the point better because I liked the train!

[Coryton]

Before Virgin decided to put Royal Scots Grey back into main line service, they first ran a trail run with it on the first blimey-o-clock Brum -Glasgow train of the day.

 

The chap who's task for the day appeared to be looking after the locomotive was wearing a white coat.

 

I got the impression it was in keeping with some kind of tradition.

 

Looking like a Blue Pullman driver?

[RJS1977]

 

 

 That's when you find out that the green reservation lights go out if somebody flushes two toilets at the same time and the train is travelling under 5 mph.

 

 

 

They must have very long arms....

[JeffP]

I think "fitter" is one of those words, like "engineer", "digital", "turbo" and "autonomous" which has been so heavily abused that many examples of its use have little relation to its traditional usage in engineering.

Ha! You should go to a local steelworks near me...many of the "engineers" are simply fitters with experience. No paerwork, no formal qualifications.

Yet apply to work there, and you'll be asked if you hold an accredited degree above 2.2 in Engineering...

[JeffP]

Does anyone know if HSTs were routinely carrying fitters at this stage in their introduction to passenger service?

I don't think so, but the production Deltics did. And they wore white coats.

[Talltim]

They must have very long arms....

They just flush them using the app on their phone

[Talltim]

The possibility of a Devon and Cornwall TOC could cause interesting things to happen to 800 series train deployment

Edited November 22, 2017 by Talltim

[HillsideDepot]

I had some time at Chippenham station today for work - monitoring bus flow/congestion around the turning area - during which 800003 & 004 arrived and departed with a down working which I assume was a crew training run. Although out of service and advertised on the platform screens as "Not scheduled to stop at this station" the train side displays had it as going to Taunton calling at Bath Spa, Bristol Temple Meads & Bedminster. I have to admit, Bedminster is not a station I'd have expected to see on a class 800 calling point list.

[RfDforever]

Ha! You should go to a local steelworks near me...many of the "engineers" are simply fitters with experience. No paerwork, no formal qualifications.

Yet apply to work there, and you'll be asked if you hold an accredited degree above 2.2 in Engineering...

Nothing new there. When I was on a mech. eng. degree course in the '60's I remember one response to my proud mother telling another parent that I was studying engineering was 'yes, so's my son' - he was 16 and helping at a motor cycle garage.

'Fitter' used to mean someone who carefully scraped bearings until the marking blue confirmed the perfect fit; now, it's someone who takes a part out of a box and 'fits' it...

[Geoff Endacott]

I had some time at Chippenham station today for work - monitoring bus flow/congestion around the turning area - during which 800003 & 004 arrived and departed with a down working which I assume was a crew training run. Although out of service and advertised on the platform screens as "Not scheduled to stop at this station" the train side displays had it as going to Taunton calling at Bath Spa, Bristol Temple Meads & Bedminster. I have to admit, Bedminster is not a station I'd have expected to see on a class 800 calling point list.

 

5Z19 North Pole to Taunton, booked to stop at Nailsea & Backwell, Highbridge & Burnham and Bridgwater, but not Bedminster.

 

Geoff Endacott

[Siberian Snooper]

Nothing new there. When I was on a mech. eng. degree course in the '60's I remember one response to my proud mother telling another parent that I was studying engineering was 'yes, so's my son' - he was 16 and helping at a motor cycle garage.

'Fitter' used to mean someone who carefully scraped bearings until the marking blue confirmed the perfect fit; now, it's someone who takes a part out of a box and 'fits' it...

We called 'em "bolt stretchers".

[Geoff Endacott]

Anyone who wants some numbers about the way the Class 800s are performing can look at the Railway Performance Society data here: http://www.railperf.org.uk/index/iet .

 

Geoff Endacott

Edited November 22, 2017 by Geoff Endacott

[St. Simon]

I had some time at Chippenham station today for work - monitoring bus flow/congestion around the turning area - during which 800003 & 004 arrived and departed with a down working which I assume was a crew training run. Although out of service and advertised on the platform screens as "Not scheduled to stop at this station" the train side displays had it as going to Taunton calling at Bath Spa, Bristol Temple Meads & Bedminster. I have to admit, Bedminster is not a station I'd have expected to see on a class 800 calling point list.

 

You might have seen me dashing from the station to my managers house and back to get some APCO forms signed off and issued!

 

Simon

[Richard E]

5Z19 North Pole to Taunton, booked to stop at Nailsea & Backwell, Highbridge & Burnham and Bridgwater, but not Bedminster.

 

Geoff Endacott

Now I wouldn't have expected Nailsea and Backwell as a stop. Used to be a lovely signal box on the southern end of the up platform there, spent several happy hours chatting to signalmen there many years ago.

[D854_Tiger]

Now I wouldn't have expected Nailsea and Backwell as a stop. Used to be a lovely signal box on the southern end of the up platform there, spent several happy hours chatting to signalmen there many years ago.

 

Some peak time HSTs call at local stations between Bristol, Weston and Taunton, including Nailsea.

 

Guessing a driver training run in preparation for class 800s working beyond Bristol.

[HillsideDepot]

With a few days leave to use up from this year's allowance I decided to renew my acquaintance with class 800 today. I covered all four diagrams and found the units working thus:

 

After my launch day excitement today allowed a more circumspect analysis of performance, including Temple Meads to Swindon which is by far my most travelled section of line. Bristol to Bath doesn't seem much different to an IC125, but the sections either side of Chippenham on the Up (and physically up hill) are noticeably slower. 

 

The rest of my day was spent on the Badminton line, with 4 trips by IET and one by IC125. I did some GPS timings and found 800010 & 005 on the Down with an engine out on 010 achieving a cruising speed of 108mph only managing to better that with the assistance of gravity after Chipping Sodbury Tunnel.

 

The next Up working 011 & 013 (all 6 powering) was brought to a stand at Chipping Sodbury before taking the reversible road to Hullavington. This delay, detour and recommencement of normal running was all explained by announcements from the driver. He was rather optimistic saying "you'll have noticed now that we've crossed back over the the normal track and can resume line speed of 125mph" though. I recorded 30mph at the crossover reaching 100mph at Brinkworth maintaining that until the 70mph restriction at Wootton Bassett which was taken at 68mph. The units worked back up to 84 before braking for Swindon. 

 

009 & 008 were my final units, and we got stopped at Hullavington for a train coming over the reversible road. This time the pre-recorded system made an announcement apologising for the delay "due to a line-side equipment fault"We achieved a maximum of 85 before the Wootton Bassett Junction 70 restriction and were at 98 through Brinkworth reaching 108 before Hullavington. The best we managed after the signal stop was again 108mph. I'm quite happy for people to question the accuracy of my GPS, but 3 trips over Bassett a mile to two under line speed, and 84mph on the reversible which the driver had announced as having an 85 limit suggests its pretty accurate.

 

I deliberately rode in different vehicles today, including a driving car which didn't seem to be noticeably quieter than a motor car. I also discovered the steep ramp in the floor between a motor and non-motor, and found the ride quite rough in the first seats on one coach which must be some way beyond the bogie pivot. There were also unpleasant engine vibrations at the table seat I chose near the middle of a coach, but only while the engine was idling. So a more mixed view of them than my first day excitement.

 

Several workings had two in the cab, I assume for training, and there were also extra staff on board, some of whom were being trained. I also saw a Hitachi engineer on one train. Someone asked one of the catering trolley stewards how the new trains were doing and his reply was "they're still a bit hit and miss at the moment" but he went on to say that he thought they were well designed and thought out. Whilst mentioning catering, I think it would be fair to say that while its not as easy to just pop to the buffet car when you want a drink there are probably more people purchasing at seat than would make the trek to the counter. There is something special about the coffee they serve as the steward was having to explain the lid to everyone, but I didn't quite catch the detail. 

 

Finally, the general public seem to like them, I heard several comments to that effect about various different features. The only negative I heard was that the at seat power supply at needs a 3-pin plug and not a USB. But, that said, judging by the number of gadgets plugged in most people are happy with the arrangement. 

 

It's a real shame that they "run out of puff" on diesel, as have to say I (still) rather like them. 

[The Stationmaster]

One thing Adrian - on the vehicle I travelled in in Set 08 there was at an seat USB socket.  Are they universal (but hard to find) or only fitted in selected places I wonder? 

[Ron Ron Ron]

One thing Adrian - on the vehicle I travelled in in Set 08 there was at an seat USB socket.  Are they universal (but hard to find) or only fitted in selected places I wonder? 

 

 

Was that in First Mike?

 

Without checking back, I think I read somewhere that only First gets 3 pin and USB.

 

 

.

[Coryton]

 

Finally, the general public seem to like them, I heard several comments to that effect about various different features. The only negative I heard was that the at seat power supply at needs a 3-pin plug and not a USB. But, that said, judging by the number of gadgets plugged in most people are happy with the arrangement. 

 

 

There are proper 3 pin sockets in standard class - one per seat rather than shared between two as on the HSTs.

I don't recall USB sockets in standard.

 

With a few days leave to use up from this year's allowance I decided to renew my acquaintance with class 800 today. I covered all four diagrams and found the units working thus:

IET 20171124.JPG

 

 

It's a shame that despite their publicity suggesting that units will be kept with first class at the London end, at the moment they don't seem to be willing or able to keep them in any particular formation.

[HillsideDepot]

 

It's a shame that despite their publicity suggesting that units will be kept with first class at the London end, at the moment they don't seem to be willing or able to keep them in any particular formation.

 

GWR seems to be in bit of a mess at the moment, a lot of HSTs are running in reverse, and/or as 7 car sets. And of those with 8 cars some only manage that with a TF in place of a TS and at least one set was without any form of buffet. I assume its down to wheel flats, there were certainly a good number thumping around today, not surprising really as my first train of the day, battling leaves and fog induced wet rails was slipping and sliding enough for the loss and regaining of traction to be clearly felt in the TGS. 

[Coryton]

GWR seems to be in bit of a mess at the moment, a lot of HSTs are running in reverse, and/or as 7 car sets. And of those with 8 cars some only manage that with a TF in place of a TS and at least one set was without any form of buffet. I assume its down to wheel flats, there were certainly a good number thumping around today, not surprising really as my first train of the day, battling leaves and fog induced wet rails was slipping and sliding enough for the loss and regaining of traction to be clearly felt in the TGS. 

 

You say that is if replacing a TS with a TF is a bad thing  

 

An occasional pleasure we'll miss with the IETs.

 

I hope they will be less prone to wheel flats or they can be fixed more quickly, because I don't think taking a carriage out of the rake to turn the wheels is going to work as well with an IET as an HST.

 

The worst slipping and sliding I've ever come across was on an HST between Edinburgh and Aberdeen. I'm not sure they were running RHHTs on that line then - it certainly didn't seem like it. The train would surge forwards, slow down, then speed up again. As well as the usual hazards, putting your head out of the window was a rather risky business unless you liked your head being hit by the side of the window.