pete_mcfarlane Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 And in the meanwhile Lord Adonis yet again proves he hasn't got a clue about what he is talking about. He seems to have replaced Christian Woolmer as the BBC's go to man for negative quotes about the railways. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium iands Posted September 12, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 12, 2018 Yes Ian. The power supply work was - reportedly - completed but some of the physical clearance work wasn't, for example Newcastle was only (very) partially dealt with. I think a set might well have ventured north of York but I know the full filming run never took place (because I had bagged the 'secondman's' seat - for location advising - on the filming helicopter for that job so I missed out in a big way ). Thanks Mike. Sorry to hear you missed out on a "jolly"! Regards, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium iands Posted September 12, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 12, 2018 There was work clearance work done on the down platform at Darlington and a class 373 stop board installed! There were also power related speed restrictions south of York that were in the Sectional Appendix. Mark Saunders Thanks Mark, I was aware of the Sectional Appendix restrictions south of York, but my info for north of York is a bit sketchy, other than I know that the 373/2s were (and still are) banned from operating north of York. Regards, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Don't you just love the railways, due to the traffic estimates in the 1980's when BR was installing the OHLE north of York and the Aire Valley routes seem to be done on the cheap and it's now biting us on the proverbial 30 years on! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium iands Posted September 12, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 12, 2018 Don't you just love the railways, due to the traffic estimates in the 1980's when BR was installing the OHLE north of York and the Aire Valley routes seem to be done on the cheap and it's now biting us on the proverbial 30 years on! The ECML electrification was sanctioned (with funding) from Kings Cross to Newcastle. The powers that be then decided to "extend" the ECML electrification to Edinburgh - but this had to be achieved in the already agreed budget of the original scheme. Therefore, savings had to be made/found, hence the headspans instead of portals, and the spacing between them increased. But I get your point. Just going back to the "clearance" point made earlier, just heard a rumour that the Azumas don't fit across the KE Bridge at Newcastle. This was one of the main issues with the Eurostar's. Seems we've forgotten "lessons learnt" form previous projects! So, even if the "interference" issues between the Azumas and the signalling are sorted out, there are other potentially more expensive problems to sort out - unless all Azuma services are run via the High Level bridge - again, assuming there are no "clearance" issues there? Regards, Ian. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 There were also power related speed restrictions south of York that were in the Sectional Appendix. Mark Saunders Weren't they limited to 110 everywhere? I heard that was due to the effect of the 2 pans, but being bigger trains they'd draw more current than a 91 set to run at 125 so that could be a factor too. Guess that 2 pans at 125 is not a problem any more if 2x5 800 sets are planned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
40052 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 A NoL set did venture north of York, but not under it's own power. It was hauled to Polmadie by two of Eurostar's 37s with match wagons, to commission the work done on the carriage cleaner which had been adapted to retract as each articulated bogie passed by - it worked. We also took the set into Glasgow Central to check signal sighting in the station, the set was propelled into the platform from the last signal before the station (the train left Polmadie with a 37 and match wagon on each end), an interesting move! The train was stopped in both Newcastle Central and Edinburgh Waverley stations at what was the expected 'in service' stopping point to identify where marker boards should be placed at either end of the train. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 I was late shift the day the Eurostar came to Glasgow Central and stopped on my way home to see it; The move had been fully planned but the sheer length of the set plus match wagons and locos had not been taken into account, meaning that even when in the platform the train stretched well outside the station and blocked some routes ! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfsup Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 Hitachi and GWR are not exactly covering themselves in glory tonight, after 802005 + 802010 found themselves sitting down and ending up being declared a major failure near Hele & Bradninch with a major air leak in one of the units. Evacuation subsequently took place with the Voyager following behind, and was completed at just shy of 22:45, nearly 6 hours after the original failure. Not surprisingly it has made the local news outlets, including Devon / Cornwall Live and BBC Spotlight. https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/passengers-evacuated-intercity-express-train-2002629 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted September 14, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 14, 2018 Things break down sometimes - is it really that newsworthy? We don't hear about it every time a new car is spotted on the hard shoulder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 Things break down sometimes - is it really that newsworthy? We don't hear about it every time a new car is spotted on the hard shoulder. Exactly, a major air leak could happen to any train, even the apparently god-like HSTs... Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Richard E Posted September 14, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 14, 2018 There was a 2x5 set I saw going north at Helpston crossing at around 22:00 last night running both pans up and both units drawing power judging by the arcing I saw. The disturbance to the OHL was far more than I have noticed with the 91's and persisted for some time affecting all the wires at the crossing. Are we likely to see more OHLE problems on the ECML when running in service? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfsup Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 Granted HSTs and other stock do fail in service, however is 5 to 6 hours really an acceptable time to effect an evacuation of a failed train? I gather that attempts were made to continue the journey with the second unit but the fault then transferred itself through the computer system into the second unit disabling that unit as well. Add in all of the disruption caused by the blocking of a key line to the South West and Hitachi are facing a fairly substantial bill. Curiously another IET also failed with issues with it's brakes blocking access to Long Rock depot for several hours last night as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 It certainly is a long time to get passengers off a disabled train, but most train failures are not anywhere near as catastrophic and it is unlikely that anybody would know at the start of this incident just how long it would take. Also, the preference is always to keep passengers on the train and move it if at all possible; Evacuating hundreds of people between trains not at a platform is a complicated business, which means blocking the unaffected line as well as that occupied by the train. Meanwhile, on other forms of transport, this summer my wife was delayed 14 (fourteen) hours thanks to British Airways cancelling her flight from Heathrow to Glasgow, and my sister lost the first day of a weekend trip to Barcelona when her Easyjet flight developed a fault and had to divert to Paris. Didn't see either of those incidents covered by BBC News...... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 There was a 2x5 set I saw going north at Helpston crossing at around 22:00 last night running both pans up and both units drawing power judging by the arcing I saw. The disturbance to the OHL was far more than I have noticed with the 91's and persisted for some time affecting all the wires at the crossing. Are we likely to see more OHLE problems on the ECML when running in service?2 pans is harder on the OLE than one. So if nothing else changes, expect more failures. Of course what us outside observers can't easily tell is whether or not any other changes have been made, either to the OLE or the maintenance & inspection regime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 (edited) Granted HSTs and other stock do fail in service, however is 5 to 6 hours really an acceptable time to effect an evacuation of a failed train? I gather that attempts were made to continue the journey with the second unit but the fault then transferred itself through the computer system into the second unit disabling that unit as well. Add in all of the disruption caused by the blocking of a key line to the South West and Hitachi are facing a fairly substantial bill. Curiously another IET also failed with issues with it's brakes blocking access to Long Rock depot for several hours last night as well. Well, for starters the driver has to converse with his control and Hitachi maintenance to establish what the problem is and whether the train can actually be moved under its own power, that could take half an hour. Then if it can't, they'll see if a rescue unit / loco is available, another half an hour of ringing around various companies and depots. If it is established that the train has to be evacuated, then a evacuation train has to be found, this may mean taking that train somewhere to have its passengers detrained and then possibly restocked with water and food for the people on the stricken train, say another hour for that. Depending on the failure (say if the train lost air because it hit a tree), then the other lines may be blocked, which might require the appropriate pilotmen aboard the rescue train, could be an hour for someone to travel to somewhere and get all the appropriate authority . If a pilot working is required, then the rescue train may have to travel at slow speed towards the stricken train, another hour gone. Then it all has to be made safe for the people to be transferred across, quarter of an hour. Finally, the trip to the nearest station may have to be done at slow speed, another hour. I doubt that Hitachi will take the blame for this, they presented a serviceable train for the service (by the fact that it got all the way from Penzance to Exeter without a problem), that's what they are being paid to do. If the train fails on route, it's not necessarily Hitachi's fault. Simon Edited September 14, 2018 by St. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 The "BR days" difference would probably have been that the broken train would have coupled to the other things in the locality more readily and more locos would have been kicking around. Though even that was dwindling following the introduction of PEP-based EMUs, sprinters and the like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 Technically, and on a point of geographical exactitude Somerton to Castle Cary is not on the Berks & Hants and never was (the B&H terminated at Hungerford although the BHL route code includes the Berks & Hants Extension so goes as far as Patney & Chrirton). Anyone from that part of the world railway wise would be very confused to hear of the Langport Cut-off, in reality the Castle Cary - Langport line, route code CCL, being referred to as the B&H; the route code now extends to Cogload. The BHL code ends at Patney where it changes to SWY (Stert and Westbury) which in turn ends at Westbury station where it changes to WEY (for Wilts & Weymouth) or at Heywoord Road where it changes to WES for the Westbury Avoiding Line to Fairwood. Staff working in the area never referred to anything west of Westbury as 'the B&H' because it very definitely wasn't and never had been. Similarly the Stert & Westbury was usually referred to as 'the Lavington cut-off' because the B&H Extension went, of course, to Devizes. I know things have changed but i wonder what Westbury Signalmen would make of Castle Cary - Somerton being referred to as the B&H - one or two who were in Westbury panel would I reckon be less than polite when hearing that. Thank you Mr Pedantic, none of that is relevant to me as a driver over the route, in the mess room its all called the B&H, when talking to the signallers its either the up Athelney or down Athelney depending which track we are on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 I doubt that Hitachi will take the blame for this, they presented a serviceable train for the service (by the fact that it got all the way from Penzance to Exeter without a problem), that's what they are being paid to do. If the train fails on route, it's not necessarily Hitachi's fault. Simon Why not? If its not their fault whose is it? They presented a train with a defect which manifested itself at Hele. Knowing what caused the failures (plural) it is purely and simply gown to Hitachi and no end of 'assistance' would have got it moving Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 Why not? If its not their fault whose is it? They presented a train with a defect which manifested itself at Hele. Knowing what caused the failures (plural) it is purely and simply gown to Hitachi and no end of 'assistance' would have got it moving Loss of air/ main res pressure has never been caused by a ballast strike or anything similar, then? Personally I tend to the view that so early in their service life, this could be attributable to part manufacture or installation, but I don't think it's necessarily fair to blame Hitachi without sight of the defect log and remedial action. Which you may have had sight of, we don't know. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 (edited) Loss of air/ main res pressure has never been caused by a ballast strike or anything similar, then? Personally I tend to the view that so early in their service life, this could be attributable to part manufacture or installation, but I don't think it's necessarily fair to blame Hitachi without sight of the defect log and remedial action. Which you may have had sight of, we don't know. I dont have sight of the log but I did have a chat with the driver last night/ this morning when we all got back to depot. Its not so much the loss of air but the reason for the loss of air which has caused much 'discussion' among the people in suits, yes things can be damaged which can cause issues but this wasnt caused by any external interference, it was purely down to the train builder/ PDI examiner. Be hard put to get a ballast strike inside the nose cone! Edited September 14, 2018 by royaloak Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 (edited) Loss of air/ main res pressure has never been caused by a ballast strike or anything similar, then? Personally I tend to the view that so early in their service life, this could be attributable to part manufacture or installation, but I don't think it's necessarily fair to blame Hitachi without sight of the defect log and remedial action. Which you may have had sight of, we don't know. Transferring an airleak to another unit is quite a feat of software engineering.... Edited September 14, 2018 by Talltim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgman Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 Dunno if I'd want to be stranded on those seats for that length of time with my problem ! P.Iiles 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 Transferring an airleak to another unit is quite a feat of software engineering.... By the time the air leak was fixed the computer had decided it was time for bed and didnt want to play anymore. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 (edited) Why not? If its not their fault whose is it? They presented a train with a defect which manifested itself at Hele. Knowing what caused the failures (plural) it is purely and simply gown to Hitachi and no end of 'assistance' would have got it moving Fair enough, I hadn't seen the log, but the fact that the units had made it to Exeter meant that it was an external cause rather than a train fault. I stand corrected Simon Edited September 14, 2018 by St. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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