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Class 800 - Updates


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Interesting to note that “Javelin” class 395s - the nearest thing we have to the 800 family - have been split and joined in traffic many times every weekday since new and still only require a few minutes for the procedure. Not as quick as the older generations of SR EMU types with a buckeye and two hoses but still pretty swift.

 

One cannot block the platforms at the likes of Ashford for too long. Neither will network capacity be helped if trains have to couple / uncouple Cornish or west Welsh portions at Plymouth or Swansea.

 

But in terms of computing task along way from the 80X series.   Hopefully with development (assuming somebody is prepared to pay for it some times can be reduced but it will not make much differeence to nboot up time from cold unless some slightly different computer technology is used.

 

And never overlook the fact that it took a bit over 5 years to get the software on the 373s more or less fully sorted - which took them to Version 17 of the software (and there was still one part of it which didn't work but that was 100% down to Railtrack failing to deliver promised GSM transmission capability on the Southern Zone CTR routes).

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But in terms of computing task along way from the 80X series.   Hopefully with development (assuming somebody is prepared to pay for it some times can be reduced but it will not make much differeence to nboot up time from cold unless some slightly different computer technology is used.

But, how different is the train software on an 8xx to that on a 395 (or other multiple unit trains that Hitachi have built? They aren't exactly newcomers to the business.

 

Jim

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But, how different is the train software on an 8xx to that on a 395 (or other multiple unit trains that Hitachi have built? They aren't exactly newcomers to the business.

 

Jim

 

Sadly, probably quite different if not entirely different.  They hardware is a decade older, which in computer terms is what, 4? generations.

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Sadly, probably quite different if not entirely different.  They hardware is a decade older, which in computer terms is what, 4? generations.

I did say software, intentionally. A lot depends on which family of microprocessors is being used, rather than the actual version, and in turn, the coding language.

That apart, what matters more, I think, in the total dwell time for coupling and uncoupling is the time taken whilst the train doors are still closed. That is lost time as far as passenger handling is concerned.

 

Jim

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800201 stood in platform 7 at York this morning at 09.15 with it's pantograph raised. Didn't see it arrive or depart as I was changing trains and didn't have time to wait around so unable to say if it moved in this state. This seems to be a regular training/test run but it has been on diesel over the last few weeks, have things changed regarding running on electric North of Doncaster?

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800201 stood in platform 7 at York this morning at 09.15 with it's pantograph raised. Didn't see it arrive or depart as I was changing trains and didn't have time to wait around so unable to say if it moved in this state. This seems to be a regular training/test run but it has been on diesel over the last few weeks, have things changed regarding running on electric North of Doncaster?

Not heard anything from within the industry, so I assume the general state of the 800s being banned on electric power north of Doncaster still stands. Could it have been a one-off special run (on electric power) to carry out some additional clarification/configuration/calibration type testing/analysis?

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Not heard anything from within the industry, so I assume the general state of the 800s being banned on electric power north of Doncaster still stands. Could it have been a one-off special run (on electric power) to carry out some additional clarification/configuration/calibration type testing/analysis?

 

That sounds a distinct possibility.   From Uncle Roger's scribblings the ban is north of Colton Junction, so only a mile or two from York Station.  It would make sense for them to use the section from Colton into the station as a test section for the implementation of the various fixes so that Trains could operate to York on the juice.

 

Jamie

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But, how different is the train software on an 8xx to that on a 395 (or other multiple unit trains that Hitachi have built? They aren't exactly newcomers to the business.

 

Jim

 

Quite a number of differences I'm sure Jim.  for a start instead of being dual voltage electric they are bi-mode electric/diesel so there's a whole different array of things to monitor.  Interestingly they seem - still - to be suffering door opening /closing problems which indicates they haven't used the mechanism which is  proven in traffic on the Javelins.

 

But how's this one.  A former colleague related to me yesterday how he was unable to get the toilet door to open when he wished to get out of the toilet.  It worked at the third try and he reported said problem to the Conductor Guard (or whatever the grade is currently titled on GWR).  in response he was told that it wasn't the first time this had happened and it always seems to be on curved track when the door won't open but all becomes well as the track straightens - and this incident happened on curved track west of Reading.   Clearly all soirts of little niggles still need to be sorted (I daren't say 'bottomed'  :O ) on the 800s.

 

Three 9 car sets seen yesterday morning at/east of Reading but only one of them had the pans up, the other two were very definitely on diesel.

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That sounds a distinct possibility.   From Uncle Roger's scribblings the ban is north of Colton Junction, so only a mile or two from York Station.  It would make sense for them to use the section from Colton into the station as a test section for the implementation of the various fixes so that Trains could operate to York on the juice.

 

Jamie

That would explain things although it is more than a one-off run as it was back in York (platform 6 this time) at about 4pm with pan up and headlights still on, so I assume it arrived on electric. Crew changed ends and put front pan up ready to depart South. Had a look inside the train as the lights were on and the only activity (other than a couple of drivers eating their bait) was one chap with a laptop in first class.

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That sounds a distinct possibility.   From Uncle Roger's scribblings the ban is north of Colton Junction, so only a mile or two from York Station.  It would make sense for them to use the section from Colton into the station as a test section for the implementation of the various fixes so that Trains could operate to York on the juice.

 

Jamie

Hi Jamie,

 

Colton is a bit further away than 'a mile or two' (Chaloners Whin junction was a fraction under 2 miles from York station), Colton is about 6 miles away. It makes sense that the 'electric ban' is imposed at Doncaster for the 800s, as the York "control" (which is SSI) occurs around Balne, which is someway south of Colton.

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I did say software, intentionally. A lot depends on which family of microprocessors is being used, rather than the actual version, and in turn, the coding language.

That apart, what matters more, I think, in the total dwell time for coupling and uncoupling is the time taken whilst the train doors are still closed. That is lost time as far as passenger handling is concerned.

 

Jim

Coupling nicely illustrated here, from 6m 13s in. https://youtu.be/Aff3VXhVvMI

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I wonder when the eight-car sets are going to be introduced? They must be planned because that's what's shown in the GWR Famous Five cartoons for their sponsorship of the ITV West weather forecast.

 

Geoff Endacott

Weirdly, GWR also sponsor the local weather forecast on Meridian when I visit my folks in Kent, a little way from GWR territory. I guess it's because Meridian also cover Newbury/Reading areas, but I thought the forecasts were more local than that, with the area split into more than one region for local news and weather - certainly the Kent news never mentions stuff in Reading.

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Three 9 car sets seen yesterday morning at/east of Reading but only one of them had the pans up, the other two were very definitely on diesel.

 

 

I believe another damaged / cracked pantograph was found a couple of days ago which apparenrly pushed the "diesel only" list to over 40 units before they were physically checked on depots.  

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And while we are about it, looks as though ASLEF have "blacked" the use of the DOO camera and screens on the IETs for use on DOO "Thames Valley" services. This impacts Paddington-Oxford and Paddington - Berks & Hants DOO trains, which is awkward for the latter because Turbos cannot be released to go west, until IETs can operate DOO.

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And while we are about it, looks as though ASLEF have "blacked" the use of the DOO camera and screens on the IETs for use on DOO "Thames Valley" services. This impacts Paddington-Oxford and Paddington - Berks & Hants DOO trains, which is awkward for the latter because Turbos cannot be released to go west, until IETs can operate DOO.

 

Have they said why?  Presumably we might have to suffer cancelled trains for some totally spurious reason just v because somebody doesn't like them.

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There does appear to be an issue surrounding the DOO cameras on the IET precluding their use, uncertain of exactly what, but DOO trains can / will operate in the Thames Valley but there are restrictions as to where they can stop (must be dispatched by platform staff using CD/RA or the traditional method so effectively just like a DOO Turbo!).

From the list of stations I've seen, I think the only station that an IET would call at and will be affected will be Bedwyn.

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I believe another damaged / cracked pantograph was found a couple of days ago which apparenrly pushed the "diesel only" list to over 40 units before they were physically checked on depots.  

 

I posted about this on the 26th in the GWML electrification thread as it was thought to be Infrastructure related. The 387 fleet also had inspections carried out, as they came through Depot, as a precaution. That morning there were approx 34 IET on the diesel only restriction list, mostly as you state were because they were awaiting Pan checks, some due to the fact they were in locations where these checks were unable to be carried out.

 

This morning there are about 20 on the naughty list.

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There does appear to be an issue surrounding the DOO cameras on the IET precluding their use, uncertain of exactly what, but DOO trains can / will operate in the Thames Valley but there are restrictions as to where they can stop (must be dispatched by platform staff using CD/RA or the traditional method so effectively just like a DOO Turbo!).

From the list of stations I've seen, I think the only station that an IET would call at and will be affected will be Bedwyn.

 

Strange then as DOO trains worked by Class 16X units call everyday at any number of stations where there are no platform staff (so no CD/RA indicator) and no mirrors or cameras and have done for a quarter of a century.  And of course Class 387s are now regularly calling at some of those stations and have done since their introduction to traffic.

 

Hence I do wonder if we are getting some spurious mumblings or is it because the Driver of a Class 80X can't as easily look back along the train?

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