Class 800 - Updates

[Coach bogie]

Advance booking of London to Newcastle and Edinburgh trains from May onwards will no longer allow you to choose a seat from the seat map. The system only allocated you a reserved seat,  suggesting they are not sure whether it will be class 91 or 800's on these services.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[159220]

Nearly there with the GWR (Eversholt) deliveries, within the next 30 days - shall move straight onto the TPE (Angel) deliveries with these being delivered in pairs as per the 802/0s.

 

GWR IET Status 18/03/19

 

800/0

 

001/002 - Hitachi/Agility Trains West Accepted, Used for testing till May, Bristol/North Pole.

003-036 - GWR Passenger Service. Total available units: 34/36.

 

800/3

 

301-321 - GWR Passenger Service. Total available units: 21/21.

 

802/0

 

001-022 - GWR Passenger Service. Total available units: 22/22.

 

802/1

 

101-108 - GWR Passenger Service. Total available units: 8/14.

109-112 - Hitachi Commissioning, North Pole

113 - en route

114 - Hitachi, Pistoia, Italy.

[HillsideDepot]

Thanks for the update.

 

802110 was out test running for the first time last night as part of its commissioning process. It was running early and right behind 1C25 so stopped in the platform at Chippenham. Although I didn't spot anyone on board other than the driver I did notice various pieces of blue tape on some interior panels - rattles to find and fix, perhaps? There were also a number of the trim strips around the reservation screens which had been removed, and in some places the reservation units were hanging down, suspended by the wiring. All nothing more than little glitches to solve, I'm sure, but interesting to see.

 

I suppose the follow-on question to the news that the fleet is very nearly complete is when will full-length, high speed, HST operation end?

[159220]

It is subject to much speculation, I have been informed the last 'passenger' day is Friday 10th May with Saturday 11th featuring four special runs timed to arrive into Paddington at the same time. But there is still a view the last passenger day shall be Saturday 18th May. I suspect we shall not know 100% until the end of April. Both thoughts, follow on the Monday with the last three IET diagrams starting. 

 

The last HST passenger diagram shall be: 

 

1C98 21.03 Paddington - Plymouth

[royaloak]

On 14/03/2019 at 12:14, talisman56 said:

 

If that is what should be happening, then in my experiences no-one (or thing) is getting it right, apart from the one occasion I mentioned in my post above...

So in your mind its the staffs fault then, so who was to blame for two units attaching at Plymouth deciding to reverse formation on arrival at the second station after the attachment?

 

5 arrive from Kernow correctly displaying A-E, attach to 5 at Plymouth correctly displaying G-L, driver gets set up and checks display is still correct (it is), train departs fine, approaching Totnes the driver checks the TMS to ensure coaches are still correctly orientated (they are), stops at Totnes fine and on departure the driver again checks the TMS to ensure train is still orientated correctly (it is), on arrival at Newton Abbot driver notices he is now driving from coach A instead of the previous coach L because 'something' has decided to change the orientation so driver quickly swaps the units over via the TMS but not before everyone at Newton Abbot has got on the 'wrong' half of the train. Driver ensures the change has been accepted and continues, two minutes later they have swapped again so driver resets them for a second time which remains in place until Reading where the driver left the train.

 

So please explain who is responsible for that debacle, and do you think it reasonable that the driver has to ensure the train hasnt decided to 'throw a hissy' before each station while actually driving the train?

 

You have to remember that driver training is continuing and there are a lot of 'green' drivers out there used to their 1976 vintage HST who are now having to get their heads around the new IETs with their TMS controls etc.

[jim.snowdon]

If each 5-car unit has the option to be either A - E or G - L, I would not be surprised to find something in the software on each unit that defaults to A - E. All it needs to have happen is for the computer to do a reset en route, and hey presto, what was G becomes A.

 

Unless it was written into the specifications that units could run either way round, and arrive for coupling up in either order, the design quite probably assumes that the units are always the correct way round, and always arrive in a particular order for coupling up. If the Spec doesn't reflect reality, getting the train to accept reality will cost extra, because it isn't the designer's fault.

 

Jim

[The Stationmaster]

On 19/03/2019 at 13:27, royaloak said:

So in your mind its the staffs fault then, so who was to blame for two units attaching at Plymouth deciding to reverse formation on arrival at the second station after the attachment?

 

5 arrive from Kernow correctly displaying A-E, attach to 5 at Plymouth correctly displaying G-L, driver gets set up and checks display is still correct (it is), train departs fine, approaching Totnes the driver checks the TMS to ensure coaches are still correctly orientated (they are), stops at Totnes fine and on departure the driver again checks the TMS to ensure train is still orientated correctly (it is), on arrival at Newton Abbot driver notices he is now driving from coach A instead of the previous coach L because 'something' has decided to change the orientation so driver quickly swaps the units over via the TMS but not before everyone at Newton Abbot has got on the 'wrong' half of the train. Driver ensures the change has been accepted and continues, two minutes later they have swapped again so driver resets them for a second time which remains in place until Reading where the driver left the train.

 

So please explain who is responsible for that debacle, and do you think it reasonable that the driver has to ensure the train hasnt decided to 'throw a hissy' before each station while actually driving the train?

 

You have to remember that driver training is continuing and there are a lot of 'green' drivers out there used to their 1976 vintage HST who are now having to get their heads around the new IETs with their TMS controls etc.

Obviously a major software glitch and one for Hitachi to sort on software updates (assuming that such things are reported to them and that the software is actually being updated?).  Mind you that is one heck of a thing to effectively completely reverse the entire train and in the process put all the First Class vehicles where there are actually Standard Class vehicles and vice versa.  A good way to cause total chaos on station platforms and lose time.

 

'Hissy fits' in software are in my experience regrettably a not uncommon problem in modern trains with a high dependency of software for all sorts of things so it is essential that engineers receive feedback on all emerging problems and that they are fed into software revision propgrammes.   Which causes me to ask if there is a procedure for reporting what are, on the face of it,  software faults such as this?   And slightly more worryingly is there a programme of software updates in place for these trains?

[Mallard60022]

On ‎18‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 12:33, Coach bogie said:

Advance booking of London to Newcastle and Edinburgh trains from May onwards will no longer allow you to choose a seat from the seat map. The system only allocated you a reserved seat,  suggesting they are not sure whether it will be class 91 or 800's on these services.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Mike, I never knew you could use a seat map when booking (however I mainly use trainline as it would be a journey on several services).Is this just on LNER services own website?

Phil

[Gwiwer]

25 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Mike, I never knew you could use a seat map when booking (however I mainly use trainline as it would be a journey on several services).Is this just on LNER services own website?

Phil

I believe it’s a Virgin thing. It has been possible on the west coast since the Pendolini arrived and the same system was carried over to the east coast I believe. Where in the absence of any need to change it has probably stayed in use. 

[eastwestdivide]

50 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Mike, I never knew you could use a seat map when booking (however I mainly use trainline as it would be a journey on several services).Is this just on LNER services own website?

Phil

Yes, it's still on the LNER booking site. Used it last night to ensure we had seats on the scenic side of the train.

[Mallard60022]

Thanks. Have just used it by booking some York seats for Easter show. I was able to change the ones just given on booking but missed out on the single seat I like on the HSTs, however that seat is often left not booked/available for walk ons I have noticed so they may keep it unavailable on the diagram?

Another little thing I have learned today. Thank you. all

Phil

[159220]

Technically a class 800 series announcement, sent earlier. I understand additionally these shall be class 803s straight electric with a battery power pack. 

 

Image is a CGI and not the final design. Expected to be built in Newton Aycliffe.

 

 

Quote

FirstGroup and Hitachi announce new partnership for high speed trains linking London and Edinburgh

 

A new high-quality, low fare rail link between London and Edinburgh has come a step closer for customers with news that FirstGroup has confirmed an order for five brand new AT300 125mph intercity electric trains and ongoing maintenance, following completion yesterday of a £100 million deal for the trains between FirstGroup and Hitachi Rail, financed by Beacon Rail.

 

FirstGroup has secured rights from the Office of Rail and Road to run a new ‘open access’ service between the two capitals, with the aim of encouraging people to use trains rather than planes. Currently two-thirds of journeys between the two capitals are made by air. 

 

Under the plans, customers will benefit from an average fare of less than £25, on-board catering and free Wi-Fi, all offered in one high-quality class of travel. FirstGroup already operates an open access service, the award-winning Hull Trains.

 

Today’s news that FirstGroup has procured Hitachi’s latest AT300 125mph intercity electric trains provides confirmation that the service will be going ahead and will start in Autumn 2021.

 

Hitachi will build the five electric intercity trains of five carriages each. As part of the agreement, the new trains will be fully maintained by Hitachi for 10 years. 

 

The benefits of the new trains include:

 

More seats – five new trains will offer an additional 400 seats per train on the route 

Greater comfort – new interiors, air conditioning, Wi-Fi, power sockets

Quieter and more environmentally friendly – electric power is quieter with lower emissions 

High-quality travel for all – one standard class of service will operate throughout the train

 

Steve Montgomery, First Rail’s Managing Director, said: “We’re excited to announce the next step to providing our high-quality low fare service for customers linking London and Edinburgh. There’s a real gap in the market for truly affordable rail travel between the two capitals – our plans show we are serious about competing with low-cost airlines and opening up rail travel on this key route to thousands of new passengers.

 

“The new trains we are introducing will provide the highest level of comfort and service, whilst being great for the environment and air quality.”

 

Karen Boswell, Managing Director of Hitachi Rail Europe, said: "Our Japanese-bullet train inspired fleet will play a vital role in supporting FirstGroup’s exciting new service. 

 

“These trains have been designed to increase the number of seats available whilst harnessing the latest in comfort design to boost passenger experiences.

 

“Today’s deal extends our long-term relationship with FirstGroup, who already use our pioneering intercity trains in other parts of the country to boost reliability and passenger satisfaction.”

 

Rob Dee, Commercial Director of Beacon Rail, said: "Beacon Rail is delighted to be financing, procuring and leasing the new Hitachi Inter-City Trains for FirstGroup’s new London-Edinburgh service. We are delighted to extend our existing relationship with FirstGroup and look forward to working closely with the Hitachi Rail Europe team to deliver a fantastic passenger experience, which will encourage passengers out of planes and onto trains, promoting sustainable travel."

 

[ess1uk]

I’m surprised there are enough paths on the ECML to run that new service 

[159220]

1 hour ago, ess1uk said:

I’m surprised there are enough paths on the ECML to run that new service 

 

See the ORR announcement, all be it, a few years ago for a route surrounded in news: 

 

https://www.railwaygazette.com/news/passenger/single-view/view/vtec-and-firstgroup-granted-east-coast-main-line-paths.html

 

Quote

The Office of Rail & Road announced on May 12 that it had approved applications from Virgin Trains East Coast and FirstGroup for the operation of new passenger services on the East Coast Main Line, but had not approved those from Alliance Rail’s Great North Eastern Railway Company Ltd.

 

The VTEC services formed part of its winning bid for the InterCity East Coast franchise, which started in March 2015 and runs until at least March 31 2023. ORR has extended access rights for VTEC’s existing services from the expiry of the current access agreement in December 2017, and has also granted additional firm rights to add services to Bradford, Lincoln and Harrogate from May 2019 and Edinburgh and Middlesbrough from May 2021. Should capacity become available sooner, the service extensions to Edinburgh could start from May 2019.

 

FirstGroup’s East Coast Trains Ltd has been granted 10-year track access rights which will enable it to launch a London – Edinburgh open access service by 2021, with five trains/day each way calling at Stevenage, Newcastle and Morpeth. It plans to order five ‘state-of-the-art inter-city electric trains’, which would have one class of accommodation and be designed to attract air or coach passengers to rail.

 

The now LNER timetable introduction is running around 18 months late due to late delivery of the rolling stock and infrastructure projects. The additional LNER Edinburgh paths are also dependant on on suitable rolling stock with either 'pocket rocket' 91+Mk4 or additional Azuma's (privately financed). 

[JeffP]

"The award-winning Hull Trains"?

 

Not had many awards recently, unless you count wooden spoons....

[The Stationmaster]

Rode on two Class 800 formations yesterday (Reading to Paddington and back and both rode fairly well although there was some noticeable rolling on the eastbound trip and some rolling on the westbound.  I wonder if 'something' has been done to the suspension to cause the change or was I just lucky in respect of the units I happened to travel on?

 

Passing North pole depot it was salutary to see that a high percentage of the sets visible were the wrong way round, not a good advert for anything I'm afraid.  The 2x5 car train I rode up to Paddington on had one set formed the wrong way round, I didn't see much of the Down train as my joining it was almost akin to a pier head jump but the London end set was definitely the right way round.  Both trains appeared to have the electronic reservation system operational.

[Gwiwer]

Passed through Kings Cross yesterday returning from Allypally. Aside from the GN service being an absolute shambles with at least one in three trains cancelled “due to staff shortage” I found 800107 on the blocks. 

 

I do rather like the livery treatment with fine black lines breaking up the red. But I wasn’t allowed to see much more. Descending from the footbridge I was met by two members of (probably) station staff who ordered me off the platform rather abruptly on the grounds that “This train is private - no-one can look”. Oh really?  So why was it in full view???

 

Jobsworths perhaps. 

 

A shame as I was hoping to compare notes visually with the Go When Ready sets. 

[eastwestdivide]

29 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

Jobsworths perhaps

I've peered inside various ones on test at Doncaster and York, and even exchanged a few pleasantries along the lines of "they look nice" with the platform staff, so either yours was something out of the ordinary, or the "jobsworths" were making things up on the spot (not entirely unknown). 

[burgundy]

Was yesterday's special train from Bristol to London in the morning and return in the evening the first time that a class 800 has run a specially chartered service?

Best wishes 

Eric 

 

[Afroal05]

On 18/03/2019 at 23:34, 159220 said:

802/1

 

101-108 - GWR Passenger Service. Total available units: 8/14.

109-112 - Hitachi Commissioning, North Pole

113 - en route

114 - Hitachi, Pistoia, Italy.

 

109 now in service for GWR, it worked 1G38 13:36 London Paddington - Cheltenham Spa and return on Thursday 21st, can't tell you when exactly its first day was.

[Afroal05]

On 19/03/2019 at 10:04, 159220 said:

It is subject to much speculation, I have been informed the last 'passenger' day is Friday 10th May with Saturday 11th featuring four special runs timed to arrive into Paddington at the same time. But there is still a view the last passenger day shall be Saturday 18th May. I suspect we shall not know 100% until the end of April. Both thoughts, follow on the Monday with the last three IET diagrams starting. 

 

The last HST passenger diagram shall be: 

 

1C98 21.03 Paddington - Plymouth

 

At the moment the diagrams run up to and including Saturday 18th May although they've not been completed yet. There are three diagrams from Monday 29th April to Friday 17th May and four on Saturday 18th May although the weekend diagrams haven't been started yet so that will change. It's probably about another 3/4 weeks before the diagrams will be finished and confirmed.

 

There are plans in place to run a charter/special farewell tour with tickets on sale at Long Rock Open Day next month, the itinerary for the tour on 1st June at the moment is:

Bristol TM - Paddington via Box,

Paddington - Carmarthen via Oxford and Hereford,

Carmarthen - Paddington via Gloucester,

Paddington - Plymouth non stop.

[Coach bogie]

15 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

 

 

Jobsworths perhaps. 

 

 

There are some real tyrants at KGX. This happened to my wife and son last year, who were with another person. They were looking and photographing the one unit on test at the time, when the 'jobsworth' in  most unpleasant manner gave them all some serious verbals about not being there and not allowed to take photographs. The other person then identified himself, took the station staff details and told him, in no uncertain terms, that we would be discussing this later.  My wife and son were being shown around by Virgin's Customer Services Director (or similar title) and they were on their way to be shown inside the cab ( I couldn't get the day off work!). My wife was later informed that the person concerned had been interviewed in the presence of HR and was going to be 'retrained'. My wife, who travels from the North East to KGX at least once a week, has seen this person several times and he just avoids her.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[RJS1977]

On 24/03/2019 at 09:22, ess1uk said:

I’m surprised there are enough paths on the ECML to run that new service 

 

Perhaps more to the point though with all the franchised operators on the ECML having made a loss on it, why would anyone else want to?

[Mallard60022]

7 hours ago, Coach bogie said:

There are some real tyrants at KGX. This happened to my wife and son last year, who were with another person. They were looking and photographing the one unit on test at the time, when the 'jobsworth' in  most unpleasant manner gave them all some serious verbals about not being there and not allowed to take photographs. The other person then identified himself, took the station staff details and told him, in no uncertain terms, that we would be discussing this later.  My wife and son were being shown around by Virgin's Customer Services Director (or similar title) and they were on their way to be shown inside the cab ( I couldn't get the day off work!). My wife was later informed that the person concerned had been interviewed in the presence of HR and was going to be 'retrained'. My wife, who travels from the North East to KGX at least once a week, has seen this person several times and he just avoids her.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Retford (and Donny) allows views of Units at leisure if they are on turn around, sometimes being in P2 for over half an hour. I have spoken with the friendly station staff at Retford (that is really just a fairly quiet, small town station these days) as well as some of the Train Crew. No hassle except when it is about to depart when standing clear is clearly indicated (as for any other departing service). Donny is bigger, busier and a completely open station at the moment and so Staff have a more challenging time and I respect that. However they are very tolerant of 'Enthusiasts' as they know most are actually great eyes and ears and

alert to things unusual.

The Kings Cross, "I'm sorry but this area is not for public use at the moment", situation could be due to the 'interesting characters' that seem to inhabit the place and some access is closed at times and must be a nuisance on occasion to Staff. However, Station Staff not being able to differentiate between these souls and an adult woman, youngster and adult male and being rude is just poor training and I am glad that that situation was dealt with intelligently by the 'Boss'!

Phi

 

 

[mdvle]

13 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

 

Perhaps more to the point though with all the franchised operators on the ECML having made a loss on it, why would anyone else want to?

 

Well, if you don't have to pay the government a significant franchise fee that changes the economics of a service, as does the ability to dictate (within the ability to get paths) the level of service and stops to the convenience of making a profit and not necessarily to serving the greatest amount of public...