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Class 800 - Updates


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49 minutes ago, Ken.W said:

The 3 sets on Tyne Yard at present are 800 006 / 9 / 12 (all 9 car)

(and at least one the wrong way round!)

At least one expected to be changed by tomorrow

 

Am i missing something

 

The 800/0 units are all GWR 5 cars, are the number correct?. If they are GWR units then are they going for modifications or servicing.

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27 minutes ago, Bob83a said:

 

Am i missing something

 

The 800/0 units are all GWR 5 cars, are the number correct?. If they are GWR units then are they going for modifications or servicing.

No you arent missing anything, the numbers quoted are wrong.

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On 30/04/2019 at 17:15, jim.snowdon said:

had a ride from Kings CRoss to Peterborough this morning in one of LNER's HST sets...... The Mk4 set on the return jorney rode better.

 

Jim

I well remember the arrival of the Mk4 stock and the howls of complaint about its poor riding quality compared with Mk3 (HST) and the later Mk2 builds. 

 

And now we have something which might be worse still?  

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2 hours ago, royaloak said:

No you arent missing anything, the numbers quoted are wrong.

Ah, typo trying to do that from memory sorry

 

They are of course, 800 106/9/12, all in LNER livery

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39 minutes ago, Ken.W said:

Ah, typo trying to do that from memory sorry

 

They are of course, 800 106/9/12, all in LNER livery

All this 800/0, 800/1, 801/1 etc etc does that to me as well, or I am just getting too old!

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7 hours ago, royaloak said:

All this 800/0, 800/1, 801/1 etc etc does that to me as well, or I am just getting too old!

 

No, it does the same to me too ! It would have been simpler, to some degree anyway, if the 5-car sets were Class 805, the 9-cars Class 809 and, if there were 10-cars, Class 810.

Edited by caradoc
Factual error
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The other day a friend took a photo of one on the viaduct at Knaresborough travelling from York towards Harrogate.

 

That will give the guys with the Worlds End layout a prototype scenario that they can put into operation!

 

With talk about sets being the wrong way round reminds me of the HST that used to operate from Bradford (interchange) to London quite often could end up with the first at the north end rather than south if it went past Copley Hill with the first at the Bradford end.  

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12 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

I well remember the arrival of the Mk4 stock and the howls of complaint about its poor riding quality compared with Mk3 (HST) and the later Mk2 builds. 

 

And now we have something which might be worse still?  

Probably not, if only because none of us have any measured data from either the 8xx units or previous generations of stock. What we have on here is personal observation from uncalibrated backsides, with historical perceptions that are liable to be coloured by the passage of time and nostalgia. 

As far as the trains themselves are concerned, we are now in a quite different world to that which existed when the Mk3s were built. Trains are built to a price, against a specification, and if the latter is inadequate, the train builder does not adjust the design to compensate, he waits for the customer to complain. At that point, it is made certain in commercial terms that the cost liability lies with the customer. If Hitachi's trains ride badly because the track isn't as per the spec., it won't be their liability (and vice versa).

 

Jim

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1 hour ago, jim.snowdon said:

Probably not, if only because none of us have any measured data from either the 8xx units or previous generations of stock. What we have on here is personal observation from uncalibrated backsides, with historical perceptions that are liable to be coloured by the passage of time and nostalgia. 

 

Fair point, though the time hasn't quite come where comparison of an IET and an HST over the same track requires historical perceptions.

 

In fact there are going to be places where we can continue to do so for some time yet, albeit not at 125 mph.

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Of course, the HST has had the benefit of several decades of experience to optimise it's behaviour. I'd be amazed if they were still running to the same specification that they left the factory with. Whereas 800s are still in the phase of finding out how they behave in the real world. Though contracts will no doubt make any optimising a whole lot more of a palaver than was the case for the MK3.

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The HST has also had the disbenefit recently of swapping out one of the suspension components for an inferior version, according to various reports. 

I know the plural of 'anecdote' isn't 'evidence', but my uncalibrated backside can corroborate this, as my recent journeys in HSTs on the ECML have been decidedly poor in terms of ride quality compared to Mk4s and 180s over the same track.

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At least we can be sure of one thing. Historical noses told us that HST brakes smelled awful until remedial work improved matters. I haven’t come across any complaints about brake smell on the IETs. 

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16 hours ago, royaloak said:

All this 800/0, 800/1, 801/1 etc etc does that to me as well, or I am just getting too old!

 

Well, seems I am, and got the badge to prove it!

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9 hours ago, caradoc said:

 

No, it does the same to me too ! It would have been simpler, to some degree anyway, if the 5-car sets were Class 805, the 9-cars Class 809 and, if there were 10-cars, Class 810.

 

Not really, as the main class differentiation is whether they're Bi-mode or Electric only

 

8 hours ago, Zomboid said:

It always felt wrong to me that the electric ones were 801. I'd have had them as 800 and the bi modes as 801.

 

That's actually the easy part of it as it is, as our instructor put it, an 801 has only1 engine (ie, the 'electric' only)

 

Confusing bit's the sub-classes

eg, in the LNER sets...

In 800s, an 800/1's a 9-car and a 800/2's a 5-car

 

If it's an 801 however, that's the other way round. Why couldn't that part be the same!!??

 

 

800109 departed Tyne Yard last night, leaving /6 and /12 there.

Another was due in to take it's place this afternoon.

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On 30/04/2019 at 09:14, jim.snowdon said:

Poor ride quality is a function of both train and track, and in the circumstances a good thing to check before blaming the train designers would be what the specification said in terms of defining the quality of the track on which these trains are expected to run. It is quite possible that the actual track does not come to what is in the specification in terms of its geometry and quality.

 

Jim

I don't know if you've noticed Jim but there appears to be a stock of spare bogies (mostly sheeted over) at North pole, roughly at the site of the former Old Oak signalbox.  Whether they are spares (that many?) or there for campaign changes I don't know but I wonder if 'improvements' might be underway as there are now noticeable variations in ride quality between sets.  I had a reasonable ride, and definitely better than most previous examples, on a Class 800 from Paddington to Reading on Wednesday - definitely massively better than some previous experiences when I feared we were as likely to come off the road as stay on it.

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1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

I don't know if you've noticed Jim but there appears to be a stock of spare bogies (mostly sheeted over) at North pole, roughly at the site of the former Old Oak signalbox.  Whether they are spares (that many?) or there for campaign changes I don't know but I wonder if 'improvements' might be underway as there are now noticeable variations in ride quality between sets.  I had a reasonable ride, and definitely better than most previous examples, on a Class 800 from Paddington to Reading on Wednesday - definitely massively better than some previous experiences when I feared we were as likely to come off the road as stay on it.

It has been a while since I was last on the books but they were due all the warranty stock from Japan including trains and trains of bogies, interiors etc. 

 

Needless to say there was no idea where exactly they could put it all. 

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6 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I don't know if you've noticed Jim but there appears to be a stock of spare bogies (mostly sheeted over) at North pole, roughly at the site of the former Old Oak signalbox.  Whether they are spares (that many?) or there for campaign changes I don't know but I wonder if 'improvements' might be underway as there are now noticeable variations in ride quality between sets.  I had a reasonable ride, and definitely better than most previous examples, on a Class 800 from Paddington to Reading on Wednesday - definitely massively better than some previous experiences when I feared we were as likely to come off the road as stay on it.

Those bogies have been there from well before the first train arrived.

 

Jim

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On 30/04/2019 at 17:15, jim.snowdon said:

There isn't, but what did the DfT (and its consultants) write into the specification?  Contractually, that is all that matters. Whether it is adeqaute or not is not Hitachi's problem.

 

What we should not do is simply go blaming Hitachi's designers for poor ride quality without knowing the parameters they were given.

 

As an aside, I had a ride from Kings CRoss to Peterborough this morning in one of LNER's HST sets, and I can't say that the ride in that was exactly silky smooth. The Mk4 set on the return jorney rode better.

 

Jim

I have travelled often between Cheltenham and Birmingham New Street. The Class 170s are fine unless you are at the rear of the rear coach, then the ride can be quite alarming. The Voyagers are a better ride wherever you happen to sit, as are Cross Country HSTS. These experiences have taught me that different vehicles behave differently on the same track.

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50 minutes ago, 96701 said:

I have travelled often between Cheltenham and Birmingham New Street. The Class 170s are fine unless you are at the rear of the rear coach, then the ride can be quite alarming. The Voyagers are a better ride wherever you happen to sit, as are Cross Country HSTS. These experiences have taught me that different vehicles behave differently on the same track.

My experience of Turbostars on the MML was that they are smooth riders. Voyagers I find indifferent, not specifically rough, but not what I'd call smooth either.

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802 114 was sitting silently on the down through line at Totnes on Sunday afternoon, looking absolutely pristine, even below the solebar. There were track-circuit operating clips and red flags protecting it at both ends, and it had a tail-lamp at the Plymouth end, maybe both. It appeared that seats had reservation labels. A chap in an orange vest was on board, and a GWR driver, apparently unconnected with the train, was on the platform conversing casually  with him. 

 

I remain confused about the blanking-off of leading seating bays on driving vehicles, losing half a coach. Whatever the reason, 802 114 doesn’t qualify, as it had the leading coach fully fitted out with seats, it appeared. No doubt someone can explain. 

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