Class 800 - Updates

[iands]

22 hours ago, Coryton said:

Previous factories in the UK that fitted out bodyshells must have managed without a turntable, if this is the first such one...or were they all built somewhere that had a turntable left over from steam days?

 

 

 

 

I can't speak for all rolling stock factories, but York Carriage Works had a turntable as well as a traverser.

[Mallard60022]

1 minute ago, iands said:

I can't speak for all rolling stock factories, but York Carriage Works had a turntable as well as a traverser.

Not 100% sure but I think that turntable might still be there?

Phil

[iands]

8 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Not 100% sure but I think that turntable might still be there?

Phil

I think the turntable is still in-situ but I'm uncertain if it is still connected to the rail 'network'.

 

Edit: I stand corrected. Just looked on Routeview and the turntable is still connected to the rail network.

Edited June 4, 2019 by iands
Correction.

[Mallard60022]

12 minutes ago, iands said:

I think the turntable is still in-situ but I'm uncertain if it is still connected to the rail 'network'.

 

Edit: I stand corrected. Just looked on Routeview and the turntable is still connected to the rail network.

I think it might be the one the railtour loco's use. Pity the RM don't own it and that whole area; lack of funds sadly I should think?

Phil

[The Stationmaster]

6 hours ago, HillsideDepot said:

Re the dirty windows, I am told that a problem was found with the design of the washing plants at two of the three Western depots (my contact couldn't remember which two, as it is outwith his role). The problem is the design of the plumbing and legionella. Whether this was an actual problem which had occurred, or a theoretical one it was decreed that washing was to cease until the problem was solved. The system was re-designed, contractors made the necessary changes, but the washes remain out of use as someone from DfT needs to visit the depots to sign off the work. Said person from DfT is apparently so busy he can't leave his desk. I'm told that there are well over 50 sets which are over due washing, and the further concern is that they will need three or four passes through the plant to really get them clean, and depot time is already tight.

 

However, the bodyside cameras are being washed by hand at Paddington (although I saw what appeared to be a feather duster being used at Temple Meads) and the excess water from that operation dribbles down the windows, giving very narrow clean bits...

Several aspects of this worry me - considerably.

 

Firstly I must admit to being puzzled that a company such as Hitachi with a substantial international reputation can't build a proper carriage washing plant in three brand new depots (but then they did build the trains - although they are of course to DafT's spec so not quite the same thing)?

 

Secondly, and immensely more worrying - is the idea that somebody in DafT is charged with responsibility for ensuring that carriage washing plants comply with various health directives and procedures.  Let's face there are many examples of that bunch being incapable of carrying out their primary task dealing with various aspects of transport in and around the UK.  To learn they have a public health responsibility too verges on setting in my mind a conviction that they really are out to get us all and even it isn't by numb b*ms it will be by poisoned air. 

 

But it seems to me that GWR might also be missing a trick here.  Presumably IETs pass through the washer at Penzance, and possibly Plymouth so hopefully GWR is charging Hitachi for that (if it happens).  Looks like GWR could make a few quid out of Hitrachi's habit of seemingly turning out anything on any diagram and giving the sets a good washing at its depots - even BR would have seen that as a 'commercial opportunity'.

[4630]

It will be interesting over the next few months to see how Hitachi's external cleaning efforts on LNER's IETs compare with their efforts on GWR's, now that they're entering service on the ECML.

[4630]

2 hours ago, jim.snowdon said:

I can only recall two - Alstom (Metro-Cammell) when they did the Pendolinos, and Brush when they put the 60s together. Everything else, at least in the UK, was fitted out in the same works as built the bodyshells.

 

Jim

 

 

Fairly sure that the class 92s should be added to your list too.  The body shells, similar to the class 60, were also fabricated by Procor in Wakefield before transport to Brush in Loughborough.

[Mallard60022]

49 minutes ago, 4630 said:

It will be interesting over the next few months to see how Hitachi's external cleaning efforts on LNER's IETs compare with their efforts on GWR's, now that they're entering service on the ECML.

Apart from one grey one still on test, the in service sets I have seen are gleamingly shiny and smart.

For some unknown reason I now can't stop thinking about the lyrics "Shiny Boots of Leather" in Venus in Firs; I think I need treatment especially as it now means I'm listening to https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Lou+Reed+I'm+Waiting+for+the+Man&&view=detail&mid=546DE9298C37E1E1F53A546DE9298C37E1E1F53A&&FORM=VRDGAR

Apologies if this offends.

P

Edited June 4, 2019 by Mallard60022

[jim.snowdon]

1 hour ago, 4630 said:

 

 

Fairly sure that the class 92s should be added to your list too.  The body shells, similar to the class 60, were also fabricated by Procor in Wakefield before transport to Brush in Loughborough.

Thanks, I wasn't certain about them.

 

Jim

[royaloak]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

But it seems to me that GWR might also be missing a trick here.  Presumably IETs pass through the washer at Penzance, and possibly Plymouth so hopefully GWR is charging Hitachi for that (if it happens).  Looks like GWR could make a few quid out of Hitrachi's habit of seemingly turning out anything on any diagram and giving the sets a good washing at its depots - even BR would have seen that as a 'commercial opportunity'.

The 800s are a DaFT contractwhilst the 802s are a GWR contract and they are very different.

 

An 800 arriving on Laira (there are a couple a day which go there for a few hours) are not allowed to be cleaned (internally or externally), fuelled or any work carried out on them while on the non Hitachi Depot.

 

No 800 is allowed to finish the day at a non Hitachi Depot, if they did during disruption (unlikely to be sanctioned and the train cancelled instead) they cannot be cleaned or fuelled etc, yep its bloody maddening.

[jim.snowdon]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

Several aspects of this worry me - considerably.

 

Firstly I must admit to being puzzled that a company such as Hitachi with a substantial international reputation can't build a proper carriage washing plant in three brand new depots (but then they did build the trains - although they are of course to DafT's spec so not quite the same thing)?

 

Secondly, and immensely more worrying - is the idea that somebody in DafT is charged with responsibility for ensuring that carriage washing plants comply with various health directives and procedures.  Let's face there are many examples of that bunch being incapable of carrying out their primary task dealing with various aspects of transport in and around the UK.  To learn they have a public health responsibility too verges on setting in my mind a conviction that they really are out to get us all and even it isn't by numb b*ms it will be by poisoned air. 

 

But it seems to me that GWR might also be missing a trick here.  Presumably IETs pass through the washer at Penzance, and possibly Plymouth so hopefully GWR is charging Hitachi for that (if it happens).  Looks like GWR could make a few quid out of Hitrachi's habit of seemingly turning out anything on any diagram and giving the sets a good washing at its depots - even BR would have seen that as a 'commercial opportunity'.

I'd be rather surprised if Hitachi built the carriage washers in their depots. More likely is that, whoever the actual client is, that they would have been subcontracted to one of the specialist companies that designs and builds such equipment. That said, the 387 on which I am currently travelling shows all the same signs of inadequate washing by machine, namely a growing covering of droplet stains, common to harder water areas and carriage washers that leave the train to drip dry. Each drying droplet leaves a limescale deposit that attracts more droplets and limescale deposition every time the carriage is washed.

 

Jim

[jim.snowdon]

8 minutes ago, royaloak said:

The 800s are a DaFT contractwhilst the 802s are a GWR contract and they are very different.

 

An 800 arriving on Laira (there are a couple a day which go there for a few hours) are not allowed to be cleaned (internally or externally), fuelled or any work carried out on them while on the non Hitachi Depot.

 

No 800 is allowed to finish the day at a non Hitachi Depot, if they did during disruption (unlikely to be sanctioned and the train cancelled instead) they cannot be cleaned or fuelled etc, yep its bloody maddening.

Lunatics and asylums come to mind (and I don't mean the authors of any of the posts).

 

Jim

[Siberian Snooper]

44 minutes ago, jim.snowdon said:

Lunatics and asylums come to mind (and I don't mean the authors of any of the posts).

 

Jim

 

 

This has given me earworm,  Brain Damage,  from Pink floyd's Dark Side of the Moon.

 

 

[HillsideDepot]

Following the replies/comments to my earlier post about IET washing I have been back to my source, and it seems that "DfT" was exasperated shorthand for ORR, and a search on their website finds a prohibition notice

P-CVI-HMRI-0802-019-1 Hitachi Rail Europe Ltd prohibition notice.pdf

and an improvement notice

I-HMRI-CVI-21-02-19 Hitachi Rail Europe Ltd improvement notice.pdf

for Stoke Gifford. I've not been able to find mention of North Pole or Maliphant.

 

It is surprising that an industrial concern, be that considered to be Hitachi, the depot construction contractor, or the wash sub-contractor didn't spot the issue. By comparison we've just employed local trades people to built a new class room/ meeting room next to church, and the idea of running the hot water from the church boiler about 5 metres from the new sink was met with an instant "can't do that, there's a risk of legionella."

 

None of which gets the trains clean....

Edited June 4, 2019 by HillsideDepot
PDFs in wrong order

[phil-b259]

14 minutes ago, HillsideDepot said:

 

It is surprising that an industrial concern, be that considered to be Hitachi, the depot construction contractor, or the wash sub-contractor didn't spot the issue. By comparison we've just employed local trades people to built a new class room/ meeting room next to church, and the idea of running the hot water from the church boiler about 5 metres from the new sink was met with an instant "can't do that, there's a risk of legionella."

 

 

Then how comes it is perfectly acceptable to have a hot water tap in a domestic kitchen fed from a hot water tank in an upstairs cupboard considerably more than 5 meters away?

 

Not for the first time I do wonder about those in charge of writing various regulations that prohibit things in the work place which are considered perfectly acceptable things for individuals to do in their own time - the Legionella organism doesn’t turn round and say ‘hang on lads this is a domestic installation so we carn’t infect anyone’ does it?

 

 

[31A]

3 hours ago, iands said:

I think the turntable is still in-situ but I'm uncertain if it is still connected to the rail 'network'.

 

Edit: I stand corrected. Just looked on Routeview and the turntable is still connected to the rail network.

 

3 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

I think it might be the one the railtour loco's use. Pity the RM don't own it and that whole area; lack of funds sadly I should think?

Phil

 

The turntable at York that railtour locos use was only installed a few years ago.  It is near the Carriage Works, but was never part of it.  Before that, the 'Engineer's Triangle' (ostensibly for turning tampers etc.) was used to turn railtour locos, but that was taken away to make room for the ROC to be built, so a new turntable was put in.  As an off-topic aside, the Carriage Works (now Network Rail's Holgate Works) traverser is being altered and the trackwork in the area re-modelled to allow direct rail access to (some of?) the Works roads, which in recent years have only been accessible via the traverser.

[96701]

14 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Then how comes it is perfectly acceptable to have a hot water tap in a domestic kitchen fed from a hot water tank in an upstairs cupboard considerably more than 5 meters away?

 

Not for the first time I do wonder about those in charge of writing various regulations that prohibit things in the work place which are considered perfectly acceptable things for individuals to do in their own time - the Legionella organism doesn’t turn round and say ‘hang on lads this is a domestic installation so we carn’t infect anyone’ does it?

 

 

Water in a domestic environment does tend to move at a more regular and frequent rate than possibly in a church hall. Also, there is the temperature to take into account. We have depots with showers in them and taps outside. The water risk assessments calls for the shower and the outside taps to be operated at least once a week and the shower head to be disinfected on a 3 monthly basis.

 

I reckon whoever said you can't do that in a church hall was way too risk averse.

Edited June 4, 2019 by 96701
bad spelling

[caradoc]

On 03/06/2019 at 07:47, Ken.W said:

Meanwhile, the latest issue to arise with these;

No attempt can be made to rescue persons or recover property or equipment that’s fallen under the train until specific confirmation has been received from Hitachi the vehicle has been electrically isolated and made safe.

This applies to both staff and emergency services.

 

Does that instruction only apply when the train is in electric mode (in which case would lowering the pan, plus a safeguard to prevent it being raised again without thought, not be sufficient) or at all times ? And regardless, Hitachi should not be involved in safety incidents on the running line, the relevant Train Operator and Network Rail should deal with them (and having two organisations in the loop has caused issues in the past, never mind three).

 

[iands]

1 hour ago, 31A said:

 

 

The turntable at York that railtour locos use was only installed a few years ago.  It is near the Carriage Works, but was never part of it.  Before that, the 'Engineer's Triangle' (ostensibly for turning tampers etc.) was used to turn railtour locos, but that was taken away to make room for the ROC to be built, so a new turntable was put in.  As an off-topic aside, the Carriage Works (now Network Rail's Holgate Works) traverser is being altered and the trackwork in the area re-modelled to allow direct rail access to (some of?) the Works roads, which in recent years have only been accessible via the traverser.

Thanks for that detail 31A. I was unsure how modern the turntable that the Railtour locos use is. There was another turntable (now gone) further north (somewhere close to half way between Yard South and Yard North) but looking closer at the maps that seems to be more in the Klondyke Sidings than the carriage works.

[iands]

Just to finish of the Hitachi visit post, two more photos.

 

As our visit came to an end, we walked back though the main factory. By this time the internal traverser had been moved from one side of the factory to the other in readiness to move a vehicle to a new position within the factory for it's next fit-out process.

 

And finally, on our way back to Heighington station I took a photo of the track layout showing the 'electrified' line on the left going to the factory. Heighington station, level crossing and Signal Box can just be seen in the centre distance, with the line continuing on and towards Shildon and eventually Bishop Auckland.  

 

Hope these have been of some interest.

[Ken.W]

On 03/06/2019 at 16:57, Coryton said:

 

I wonder how quickly such confirmation can be obtained in an emergency?

 

Agreed, just hope I don't have to find out!

 

2 hours ago, caradoc said:

 

Does that instruction only apply when the train is in electric mode (in which case would lowering the pan, plus a safeguard to prevent it being raised again without thought, not be sufficient) or at all times ? And regardless, Hitachi should not be involved in safety incidents on the running line, the relevant Train Operator and Network Rail should deal with them (and having two organisations in the loop has caused issues in the past, never mind three).

 

 

It appears to apply all the time, as simply states until an assurance is received that the vehicle is electrically isolated.

Platform staff are also barred from using grabbers to retrieve items of property without this procedure being followed, or the item's left until after the train's departed.

Basically, any incident's to be treated as though being in contact with the OHL

[jim.snowdon]

1 hour ago, Ken.W said:

Platform staff are also barred from using grabbers to retrieve items of property without this procedure being followed, or the item's left until after the train's departed.

Basically, any incident's to be treated as though being in contact with the OHL

Any more of this, and next we'll have staff being told that the running rails are to be treated as live. They do have traction current flowing through them, after all.

 

This has all the feel of risk aversion getting out of hand.

 

Jim

[Siberian Snooper]

I think this is one of the problems these days, to much emphasis put on academic qualifications without some hands on practical experience of having been on the coalface and done it. We had a lot of that when we lost our crown immunity and the yard employed some university graduates to write the elf and safety documentation and the PPE required to do the job, we got 'em down to show us how they expected us to do the job, with what they had prescribed, exit one red faced, wet behind the ears university Waller. Give him his due though, when we were ready to do the job, he came down and wrote it up as we did it and this became the standard for that and a lot of similar jobs.

 

 

[caradoc]

10 hours ago, Ken.W said:

 

Agreed, just hope I don't have to find out!

 

 

It appears to apply all the time, as simply states until an assurance is received that the vehicle is electrically isolated.

Platform staff are also barred from using grabbers to retrieve items of property without this procedure being followed, or the item's left until after the train's departed.

Basically, any incident's to be treated as though being in contact with the OHL

 

Thanks Ken.W. I have to say, having been involved (as a Controller) in innumerable incidents of objects and, sadly, people, under trains, such an restriction has never been imposed on any other type of traction. Occasionally the Emergency Services would request the OLE power to be switched off when they were on the line, but once we had explained the system to them they were satisfied and the OLE remained live.

 

[40052]

On 25 May 2019 at 01:02, Ken.W said:

 

Current rumour has it as August for operation to Newcastle. Any definite info however is rather scarce

 

 

As I posted a few weeks ago, the traction changover point is now Darlington, and I've been doing so on training runs this week.

 

The 801s certainly won't be changing over, they're the 'all electric' sets (801 = 1 engine). I believe they are acceptance runs, being done by GBRf, as this is the first time I've actually noticed 801s running.

 

Yes, most LNER sets that I've noticed seem to have been the correct way round. It's also easy to identify the First class end by the end three blanked windows in the space occupied by the kitchen. The 801s showing Aberdeen as the destination? Hmm that would be erm, rather challenging, it's challenging enough up there for the 800s!

 

Ken,

 

Yesterday afternoon 801201 departed North from Darlington on electric, have they now got electrical clearance through to Newcastle? It looked like most of the carriages were only fitted with skeleton seats (no seat or back cushions) although I couldn't get a close-up view as the train wasn't on a platform line.

 

Graham