Class 800 - Updates

[Siberian Snooper]

More Zoomering next weekend as I've decided not to drive up to the girlfriend's due to the ongoing upset guys. Means nearly an extra hour in bed, but she has to meet me at Reading station for the poo tube to Brum.

 

 

[royaloak]

On 20/06/2019 at 14:25, Mallard60022 said:

Totally off topic, there ae hundreds of Diesel Gricers at the West Somerset today.....don't go there.

Phil

I took your advice and went today instead!

[Mallard60022]

Son sent a text to me today; first Zoomer experience from Leeds at about 16.10. Nice train, shame about the space! Standing room only in Standard (certainly to Wakefield and probably to Donny) but seemingly that train is always stuffed and maybe even worse on a Friday? Suggested he was at an advantage having to stand as the seats are you know what.

[Coryton]

On an IET from Cardiff to London.

 

2 x 5 cars. No reservations. No catering in the rear unit. No announcements of the fact until we'd boarded the train.

 

And on boarding we were greeted to an announcement that this train terminated here and we should take our belongings with us as we left the train.

 

Seats don't seem too bad though. I know I keep saying this but I really do think they are softening up.

 

Edit: We seem to have stayed on diesel rather than changing over at Parkway.

Edited June 24, 2019 by Coryton

[Zomboid]

Plenty of them about on the ECML today. I caught HSTs both ways but I saw at least 6 different LNER 80x units and the plain grey TPE one (only the 2 end coaches so don't know if it was attached to the coloured in one).

 

LNER colours look very nice in real life, vastly better than GWRs dull green.

[Indomitable026]

So, having started this thread in January 2015, today I ride on my first LNER unit as part of my commute.

 

[Calidore]

It’s interesting that at this point, people seem to be so used to reservations not working that when the system is operating it causes more confusion than it saves. I’m currently on a single very crowded 802 and the crush of people is actually being made worse by the attempts to leave reserved seats free, causing a lot of backwards-and-forwards as people try to work out where they’re allowed to sit. The service was already 13L on arrival at Oxford and the dwell time was extended further because people couldn’t even get on the train due to the congestion.

 

Pretty sure the first off-peak up fast is normally formed of a 9 or 2x5 set anyway, which is another matter, but at least this way there won’t be any question of which seat to take for passengers at Reading or Slough — there aren’t any!

[Mallard60022]

On ‎26‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 07:38, Indomitable026 said:

So, having started this thread in January 2015, today I ride on my first LNER unit as part of my commute.

 

Be that a Leeds service dear heart? A few now call at the place at which you are standing; early morning both ways (a couple?) and a late afternoon Up I think it is? CBA to check my TT.

How was it for you then?

Philth

[Ken.W]

Well, as Virgin would have said if still here, these Azumas really do "take you to amazing"

This week I finally completed my 3 week Satsuma training, after NINE weeks!

 

I've also had a look (from a safe distance!) under an 800, and there may be some risk relating to the restriction I posted about earlier. There is, as I mentioned before, live electric equipment under the vehicles, including 25kv equipment on some.

Unlike the Mk3s and 4s though, the underframe equipment is not enclosed as there's no floor to side valances as on Mk3 & 4.

 

However, on any other stock, we would know how to electrically isolate a vehicle if necessary in case of emergency, and not have to phone the builder for instruction / permission to touch it! So this does still seem to have a strong hint of Hitachi's 'attitude' I've talked of, not wanting anyone else to play with their train set.

[jim.snowdon]

10 hours ago, Ken.W said:

There is, as I mentioned before, live electric equipment under the vehicles, including 25kv equipment on some.

As in, exposed live conductors/connections?

 

Jim

[The Stationmaster]

13 hours ago, Ken.W said:

Well, as Virgin would have said if still here, these Azumas really do "take you to amazing"

This week I finally completed my 3 week Satsuma training, after NINE weeks!

 

I've also had a look (from a safe distance!) under an 800, and there may be some risk relating to the restriction I posted about earlier. There is, as I mentioned before, live electric equipment under the vehicles, including 25kv equipment on some.

Unlike the Mk3s and 4s though, the underframe equipment is not enclosed as there's no floor to side valances as on Mk3 & 4.

 

However, on any other stock, we would know how to electrically isolate a vehicle if necessary in case of emergency, and not have to phone the builder for instruction / permission to touch it! So this does still seem to have a strong hint of Hitachi's 'attitude' I've talked of, not wanting anyone else to play with their train set.

I wonder how they managed to get that signed-off?   if you have exposed electrical equipment, or at least electrical equipment which potentially poses a risk if you come within a certain distance of it, why on earth was it permitted to enter traffic without appropriate safety instructions for traincrews?   I wonder whose safety case these trains appear on because something sounds 'a little bit odd' to say the least and I wonder if HMRI needs to be involved?

[RANGERS]

I had my first ride on one on Friday and left it distinctly underwhelmed. The ride was little better, maybe no better, perhaps even worse than the Mk4 sets. There was a swaying overe crossings which was unnerving and I can vouch for what’s been written elsewhere about the seats, they are worse than most buses and a long way fro the kind of thing that’s likely to entice people out of their cars.

[Jonboy]

Given the situations that occur with suicides and level crossing incidents it seems bizarre the emergency services cannot rely on the driver to isolate the unit and confirm safe without a phone call to tell them how to do it, or is that just me being naive with no experience of these situations?

[TravisM]

1 hour ago, Jonboy said:

it seems bizarre the emergency services cannot rely on the driver to isolate the unit and confirm safe without a phone call to tell them how to do it,

 

Dropping the pan with isolate the 25Kv AC or switching engines off should do it, then isolating the switches so they don’t get switched back on.

[Zomboid]

It's probably some kind of contractual provision that's now having an unintended consequence.

 

Hitachi are no doubt highly liable for the performance of these trains, and so to protect that they don't want anyone else mucking around with them. I'd probably be the same, if I was going to be penalised for things going wrong then at the very least I'd want to actually be at fault for them.

[The Stationmaster]

20 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

It's probably some kind of contractual provision that's now having an unintended consequence.

 

Hitachi are no doubt highly liable for the performance of these trains, and so to protect that they don't want anyone else mucking around with them. I'd probably be the same, if I was going to be penalised for things going wrong then at the very least I'd want to actually be at fault for them.

But that's bit like saying Englisjh Electric, GEC, and North British should have had somebody riding round on the electric locos they built for BR or on locos or trains with their electrical equipment.  If there is anything which needs to be isolated before somebody can go under a train then it should be possible for persons trained on the traction to do it if it is isolated by accessible switches etc.  If it requires partial dismantling to attend to it then obviously technical staff have to be called - but then they need to be readily available and suitably trained to be on or about running lines.

 

I'm left wondering what on earth would happen in the event of someone or something being trapped under the train and it needs somebody to travel umpteen miles just to turn a switch. - will Hitachi carry and pay for any delay minutes down the extra time it takes their personnel to get to site?  The more we hear about various contractual aspects of these trains the more I reaffirm my conclusion that they were drawn up by somebody who had little or no knowledge of everyday railway working and the various problems and constraints it involves.

[Oldddudders]

I am aware that some low-voltage, and certainly mains equipment, can retain a positive voltage charge even when switched off. A desk calculator I knew back in the '60s could give a nasty kick if you touched the mains pins - after unplugging. The complexity of modern rolling-stock makes it possible that residual currents of this sort might be present. While that doesn't justify the design, in our litigation-centric society it is a reason to be very prescriptive about who may touch what. 

[Zomboid]

22 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

But that's bit like saying Englisjh Electric, GEC, and North British should have had somebody riding round on the electric locos they built for BR or on locos or trains with their electrical equipment.

No, that's a stupid as having to get Hitachi in to deal with everything under the sun.

 

But it may be a necessity of the contract. Perhaps it's just blind prejudice, but I tend to think that the root of almost all issues with the 800 fleet can all be traced back to the DfT.

Edited June 30, 2019 by Zomboid

[The Stationmaster]

23 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

I am aware that some low-voltage, and certainly mains equipment, can retain a positive voltage charge even when switched off. A desk calculator I knew back in the '60s could give a nasty kick if you touched the mains pins - after unplugging. The complexity of modern rolling-stock makes it possible that residual currents of this sort might be present. While that doesn't justify the design, in our litigation-centric society it is a reason to be very prescriptive about who may touch what. 

25kv is even better at it - we had some Techs who powered down the overhead on a particular siding in the depot but neglected to earth it.  When they climbed up through the roof hatch of the power car they were working on the first two out made a very rapid descent to the ground thanks to the 'kick' from the overhead, the third man didn't bother to go out through the hatch.

[Oldddudders]

5 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

25kv is even better at it - we had some Techs who powered down the overhead on a particular siding in the depot but neglected to earth it.  When they climbed up through the roof hatch of the power car they were working on the first two out made a very rapid descent to the ground thanks to the 'kick' from the overhead, the third man didn't bother to go out through the hatch.

I knew a chap whose mate had climbed up onto the roof of a unit he had been told was electrically dead - and discovered it wasn't. The funeral was the following week. 

[royaloak]

19 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

No, that's a stupid as having to get Hitachi in to deal with everything under the sun.

 

But it may be a necessity of the contract. Perhaps it's just blind prejudice, but I tend to think that the root of almost all issues with the 800 fleet can all be traced back to the DfT.

Hitachi do have their own ream of TRIs riding around fixing faults on these trains.

 

The way the contract (and training) is written train crew are not allowed to touch pretty much anything without direct instruction from Hitachi, like it or not it is what it is!

[TravisM]

I was talking to a LNER driver at York yesterday and he told me that Network Rail had signed off the use of Class 800’s using 25Kv between York and Newcastle last week.  If that’s the case, I would expect the 800/1’s to start running on trains north of York fairly soon but I was wondering when the Class 800/2’s and 801(both 5 and 9 car sets) will start entering service?

[Richard E]

First revenue earning Azuma runs to Edinburgh start from 1st August.

[caradoc]

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

 

I'm left wondering what on earth would happen in the event of someone or something being trapped under the train and it needs somebody to travel umpteen miles just to turn a switch. - will Hitachi carry and pay for any delay minutes down the extra time it takes their personnel to get to site?  The more we hear about various contractual aspects of these trains the more I reaffirm my conclusion that they were drawn up by somebody who had little or no knowledge of everyday railway working and the various problems and constraints it involves.

 

One solution, albeit hugely disruptive, would be to impose an emergency switch off of the OLE power, however given that the area affected would be Neutral Section to Neutral Section it would have to be an absolute last resort (this is assuming that simply lowering the pantograph would not be accepted as sufficient). 

 

[rab]

A friend of mine travelled on an IET service from Plymouth to Newton Abbot yesterday. Bearing in mind how hot it's been the last few days, guess what - aircon not working.

Isn't modern technology great?

Edited June 30, 2019 by rab