Class 800 - Updates

[Ian Hargrave]

So after full introduction of the Hitachi stock,what is the future of the LNER 125’s ?

[Mallard60022]

Talking to some Staff there seems to be several frequent 'problems' at the moment.

Air Con; this is one of those things (AFAIK) only Hitachi can deal with so if it fails en-route, other that turning off and then again there seemingly ain't nowt the train staff can do. 

Bogs (if the train is stopped on a cant'd area such as the ECML/Leeds curved junction just north of Donny) have door open/close issues; they think it is a sensor of some sort that does not work correctly if the coach isn't level.

Door ops is erratic; something to do with the train not recognising it is at a stop and the doors can be opened. At Donny the other day a Unit stopped as per usual place (Platform 4). The doors remained closed much to the consternation of the hordes attempting to get off/on. Train is moved forward a tad.....really big panic from passengers.....stops again and doors are then opened! My 'contact' on the platform, did  not hear any announcements about what was going on re moving the unit, stand clear etc as it was moved 'down a bit'; he said there might have been announcements on board?

Seat reservation sign pods are erratic in that they sometimes do not work (also people that travel infrequently don't quite know how these work yet)

KItchen heating equipment...they don't know what's wrong!

The Trolly service is a real struggle through Standard for the poor  staff member having to fight their way through.

Not technical but:

loads of luggage left in vestibules which is a real pain in TA for the train staff;

the bogs are a real squeeze and the sinks and storage for 'personal materials' are too much like an aircraft, being tucked away.

overcrowding is an issue on many services (but that was the same with the old stock);

too much negative customer 'feedback' during the journey (I think I knw what they mean...poor staff).

However, the staff are getting good comments about cleanliness and smart looking trains and their professional approach to difficulty.

Such fun.

P

[The Stationmaster]

The toilet door problem on canted track has been known about for a long time - seems Hitachi have either done nothing about it or have been unable to fix it.  Maybe they should borrow a Voyager to see how it can be solved?  

 

Reservation systems on GWR units are still very hit or miss but fortunately GWR specified in providing a suitable slot for 'old fashioned' reservations labels to be used - a problem known since the units first entered passenger service

 

I'm left wondering why known faults like these haven't been tackled and resolved - is the dead hand of DafT written contract blocking progress I wonder?  I know, from direct experience, that it can take time to get trains with complex software right but the toilet door thing seems a relatively simple problem that should have been sorted by now.

Edited July 16, 2019 by The Stationmaster

[Steadfast]

Interesting survey.

https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2019/07/new-iets-drive-record-satisfaction-levels-for-gwr.html

Particularly the more luggage space bit. I find that interesting because there is now nowhere for larger items and posters have been put up at stations advising of a limit to the luggage passengers can bring with them. 

Mind you, we don't know the actual wording of the survey question...

 

Jo

[The Stationmaster]

9 minutes ago, Steadfast said:

Interesting survey.

https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2019/07/new-iets-drive-record-satisfaction-levels-for-gwr.html

Particularly the more luggage space bit. I find that interesting because there is now nowhere for larger items and posters have been put up at stations advising of a limit to the luggage passengers can bring with them. 

Mind you, we don't know the actual wording of the survey question...

 

Jo

That would appear to include bot the 387s and the IETs so we don't know which classes any individual comments might relate to?  There was a considerable increase in 'customer satisfaction' when the 387s were introduced mainly due to a major increase in the number of seats but also relating to better on-train facilities (apart ftom them having harder seats)

[Reorte]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

That would appear to include bot the 387s and the IETs so we don't know which classes any individual comments might relate to?  There was a considerable increase in 'customer satisfaction' when the 387s were introduced mainly due to a major increase in the number of seats but also relating to better on-train facilities (apart ftom them having harder seats)

 

A bit worrying if some fancy facilities win out over comfortable seats - the main purpose of a train is to get me from A to B and one of the basic things in making that a decent experience is not feeling like I've walked when I get to my destination. I'd happily throw away every electronic gizmo for some comfort (and a view) - so more seats at least wins (unless it comes with even less legroom).

 

Just as there's a tendency for some to dismiss anything because it's new there's also one from others of saying anything's great just because it's new.

[Banger Blue]

6 hours ago, Steadfast said:

I find that interesting because there is now nowhere for larger items

 

Yes there is, the “bicycle areas” are also for large luggage. 

The bicycle spaces must be reserved (enforcing that is another issue ) but if not reserved and empty can be used for luggage. I do believe there are baggage icons on the doors to the ‘cubicle’.

 

What also doesn’t help is the current trend for people to travel with ‘suitcases’ the size of a medium garden shed! 

[Ian Hargrave]

31 minutes ago, Banger Blue said:

 

Yes there is, the “bicycle areas” are also for large luggage. 

The bicycle spaces must be reserved (enforcing that is another issue ) but if not reserved and empty can be used for luggage. I do believe there are baggage icons on the doors to the ‘cubicle’.

 

What also doesn’t help is the current trend for people to travel with ‘suitcases’ the size of a medium garden shed! 

 

So if you’re a student travelling to uni ....and currently our rail network is planning special grace for prospective students to travel .....how would restrictions on luggage help you if limitation on size was introduced ? There are I’m afraid two sides to every coin. 

  Luggage space on our overloaded rail network is zero incentive to leave the car at home. 

[Ken.W]

1 hour ago, Banger Blue said:

 

Yes there is, the “bicycle areas” are also for large luggage. 

The bicycle spaces must be reserved (enforcing that is another issue ) but if not reserved and empty can be used for luggage. I do believe there are baggage icons on the doors to the ‘cubicle’.

 

What also doesn’t help is the current trend for people to travel with ‘suitcases’ the size of a medium garden shed! 

 

There's two separate sets of cupboards, they're hardly 'luggage areas', in different coaches, one pair for large luggage and the other for reserved  cycles.

Cycle reservations are generally well enforced at present on LNERs current trains where they're loaded in a van area, and don't inconvenience others if extra ones are allowed.

 

The bigger problem with these new things is likely to be passengers boarding with reserved cycles and finding their 'reserved' space already full of luggage.

There's just a small grey label, on an off white background, instructing passengers not to store luggage in them

[Mallard60022]

Now, shall we be honest about this luggage situation? Who wants to leave their suitcase coaches away from where they are seated?

Older folk find train travel quite challenging anyway and if they are to be separated from their precious travel case because this is how they travel to their holiday destination, then I don't think they are going to be that impressed and who is going to show them where the 'van' is on a busy station like KIngs Cross. The days of Porters and Station staff being available to assist and take bags from passengers to a luggage area of a Guard's Brake area (as on the ACE for example) and unload those at the person's destination are just a long lost memory from the days of steam. Book for assistance yes, but howmany assistants are there at (say) Donny?

It isn't just older folk either, what about the family with children and all the guff that goes with that sort of group? Then there are the good people of (say) Hull and my town of Retford who choose to travel to London by train before catching a flight from Gatwick or Heathrow because that is their well earned holiday. These folk do not want to drive down there as it is a shite drive and Taxis, although available, cost almost as much as the bl##dy holiday. 

The incentive to travel by train with luggage is becoming strained.

Phil

[Reorte]

I did find notices some years back asking people to keep the luggage down especially facepalming - at Manchester Airport station. TOCs obviously can't just get whatever trains they want but sufficient luggage provision I'd regard as a fairly essential part of an airport service.

[Oldddudders]

Sadly the TOCs' performance isn't measured on how many bikes, buggies or bloomin' great cases they carried, but how many passengers. 

 

Expect no changes. 

[Fat Controller]

Perhaps it's time to resurrect the old 'Passengers' Luggage in Advance', though it would have to be by road; unless someone converted the Pacers to luggage vans....

[31A]

1 hour ago, Fat Controller said:

Perhaps it's time to resurrect the old 'Passengers' Luggage in Advance', though it would have to be by road; unless someone converted the Pacers to luggage vans....

 

In that connection, to be fair LNER do give this advice regarding luggage:

 

https://www.lner.co.uk/the-east-coast-experience/travel-tips/luggage/

 

Including advertising this:

 

https://www.carrymyluggage.com

 

[Ken.W]

2 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

Perhaps it's time to resurrect the old 'Passengers' Luggage in Advance', though it would have to be by road; unless someone converted the Pacers to luggage vans....

 

Best idea yet for a Pacer, and if you hang them on the back of the zoomer they can give it a push up the hills

[Ken.W]

4 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Now, shall we be honest about this luggage situation? Who wants to leave their suitcase coaches away from where they are seated?

Older folk find train travel quite challenging anyway and if they are to be separated from their precious travel case because this is how they travel to their holiday destination, then I don't think they are going to be that impressed and who is going to show them where the 'van' is on a busy station like KIngs Cross. The days of Porters and Station staff being available to assist and take bags from passengers to a luggage area of a Guard's Brake area (as on the ACE for example) and unload those at the person's destination are just a long lost memory from the days of steam. Book for assistance yes, but howmany assistants are there at (say) Donny?

It isn't just older folk either, what about the family with children and all the guff that goes with that sort of group? Then there are the good people of (say) Hull and my town of Retford who choose to travel to London by train before catching a flight from Gatwick or Heathrow because that is their well earned holiday. These folk do not want to drive down there as it is a shite drive and Taxis, although available, cost almost as much as the bl##dy holiday. 

The incentive to travel by train with luggage is becoming strained.

Phil

 

The system of stowing large items of luggage in the Mk4 DVT / 43 van actually works quite well.

It's usually just for passengers from the originating station to the destination, or sometimes one or two selected intermediate stops. This often means passengers have to pass the collection point when entering the platform, especially at KGX. There's also plenty staff on hand to deal with this service, at main holiday periods when it's mostly in use they appear to be mostly 'student' types brought in for the job.

The luggage is secure during the journey, in fact more so than in the in-coach racks, as the vans are locked throughout - the DVT van doors are self locking when closed, and on the 43s, due to some issue caused when re-engined, besides the external budget lock they also always have to be secured by the internal tower bolt, and access by the door from the adjacent vestibule is by a security key.

And while this service isn't for use by everyone it does still help them as it frees up a considerable amount of in-coach storage space.

 

Only problem with this service - there's nowhere to offer it on a satsuma. I've seen the vans to be quite full at times - sometimes you're actually not able to get through them, so that's going to be fun on the satsuma when it all has to go in the coaches.

And then, as for the 'Chieftain' during high holidays, 'please sit with your suitcase on your knees'

[Ken.W]

15 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

So after full introduction of the Hitachi stock,what is the future of the LNER 125’s ?

 

So far, none other than joining the stock already stored off lease.

All the sets being converted for further use are either XC's existing sets, or taken from ex-GW sets already off lease.

 

There may still be further proposals from other operators to re-use some, such as railtours. The A1SLT have announced plans for a Mk3 charter set, but would they be more likely to use ex-GA stock which is already the loco hauled type so wouldn't need converting?

 

There's also been the proposal for a new 'High Speed Freight' service using converted redundant HSTs. Perhaps they could get themselves started by solving the Satsuma luggage question?

That would be somewhat ironically typical of eco planning though. Passengers on the Highland services will be able to travel under electric power south of Edinburgh / Stirling...

While their luggage follows along on the old diesel train

[Ken.W]

4 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Sadly the TOCs' performance isn't measured on how many bikes, buggies or bloomin' great cases they carried, but how many passengers. 

 

Expect no changes. 

 

Oh but I do expect some changes...

 

Passengers with luggage taking to the Motorways

[JJGraphics]

7 hours ago, Ken.W said:

 

Oh but I do expect some changes...

 

Passengers with luggage taking to the Motorways

 

Never mind the lack of luggage space, the bum-numbing seats (which was beginning to cause me back problems), coupled with the lousy ride in some of the units (which seemed to be getting worse during the last few journeys I made) and the many other regular irritations have persuaded me to do just that.

 

I used to really enjoy the journey to Bath or Bristol or Cardiff by train. Not any more. My regular couple of journeys a week on GWR have now dropped to zero and it will take a lot to get me out of my car (shared with an associate) and back onto those trains.

 

I am a life-long railway enthusiast who would have chosen the train over the car just for the pleasure of it. I still continue to do other journeys by train and must say that recent journeys to Birmingham and Sheffield with XC on a Vomiter have been remarkably comfortable and trouble-free after my experiences on the IETs.

 

I just wonder how many other people are doing the same and how many more will start to do so when they have experienced travelling in the peak season with a lot of luggage and the family?

 

I feel really sorry for the customer-facing staff whom I witnessed to be on the receiving end of complaints about one thing or another on a fairly regular basis but I must say that they generally dealt with them pleasantly and maintained a polite and helpful manner.

 

John

Edited July 17, 2019 by JJGraphics
Correct typos

[adb968008]

Add into this the mix of changing at Old Oak Common for Heathrow from HS2 and you have all the justification you need the OC is a white elephant...

 

if you cant take luggage by train, and cant go direct to Heathrow, why do you even want to consider a change at OC for LHR ?

[Mallard60022]

16 hours ago, Reorte said:

I did find notices some years back asking people to keep the luggage down especially facepalming - at Manchester Airport station. TOCs obviously can't just get whatever trains they want but sufficient luggage provision I'd regard as a fairly essential part of an airport service.

Strange that the dedicated Gatwick Express sets (now redundant?) were very loads of luggage friendly. Maybe they could be converted and used to and

Manchester Airport?

T.O.O. Cleverfortheplanners.

[Mallard60022]

Sadly the passenger that wants to use the railway for other than business purposes or just light luggage leisure trips has actually almost been factored out on the Inter City services by the look of it. Sadly JJ Graphics' post is probably reflecting the attitude of a hell of a lot of what were regular train users. There are loads of folk from Scotland and Newcastle that are saying that it is now getting cheaper to fly and also less hassle even if it includes the airport queues and associated transfers at each end if the trip. Let's face it, Newcastle to (say) Norwich and even Doncaster to Cornwall (Newquay) is probably becoming a better choice and the airline(s) know this. I know there are certain choices that people can make for taking the train, including being able to 'work', however the 'railway industry' as a whole really needs to get its' act together or it s going to suffer the consequences on the money making routes.

Some time ago I used Retford to Sheffield, then Sheffield to Manchester Airport on a Saturday to catch a Sunday flight and return on a Sunday use trains on the Monday, staying at one of the Airport Hotels each time. That risked train cancellations and quite a protracted journey each way and the cost of the Hotel deal was, we discovered twice the cost of a two way luxury meet and greet posh taxi service. We never used the trains again, not because of bad experiences but simply because it was less expensive and a damn site easier. The slight risk was with traffic problems, however our flight times were OK for early morning to Manchester and late at night back to Retford meant that was unlikely as was a breakdown as the car was a Merc!

Not really relevant here but the railway really needs to do what it can be good at, better and at a cost that attracts passengers to use the train travel option when the car option is just a 'similar' choice and not a more convenient one. Same with air travel. An hour from Donny to Newquay by plane! I know which transport I'd use and plan around the slightly weird days on which the service runs.

P

[Reorte]

39 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Strange that the dedicated Gatwick Express sets (now redundant?) were very loads of luggage friendly. Maybe they could be converted and used to and

Manchester Airport?

T.O.O. Cleverfortheplanners.

Last time I saw one of those (think it's the ones you mean?) it was slowly going up and down a few miles of the Eden Valley.  Rather surreal, that, especially with the Network South East map inside.

[Zomboid]

The class 460 EMUs that replaced the 73/MK2/GLV sets have since been disbanded and some vehicles used to extend the 458 sets to 5 cars. The luggage cars are most likely wrapped around baked beans and the like by now.

[CloggyDog]

44 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Strange that the dedicated Gatwick Express sets (now redundant?) were very loads of luggage friendly. Maybe they could be converted and used to and

Manchester Airport?

T.O.O. Cleverfortheplanners.

 

If you mean the 8 ex-GatEx Class 460 'Darth Vader' EMUs, they've all been converted to 458 cars - the 30 existing 458s all strengthened to 5-car and most of the remaining 460s cars converted/reformed into 6 additional 458 5 car sets (identifiable by the 'ribbon' glazing on all cars). That left half-a-dozen cars which were stripped for spares and scrapped.