Class 800 - Updates

[Ian Hargrave]

Manchester Airport was until recently ( maybe still is ? ) an obstacle course for its customers.....sometimes called passengers .....driving and parking “on airport “ due to the “upgrading “ of its road network.At the moment,it seems for us to be the one of choice,mainly because our travels are with a group who live mainly in the Liverpool/ North West area.Be that as it may,travel by rail there is out of the question,even though it has airport rail facilities.The rail journey would involve two changes,would take too long and is unsuitable in terms of luggage carrying..Odd when you consider we’re only about 60 miles from the airport.Thus it’ s pre book overnight hotel if it’s a morning flight and park at whichever terminal on airport car park nearest to the flight, always taking a photo with the iPhone as an essential aide memoir to the vehicle position on return.

   

       We have used internal UK flights too.Easier and cheaper to fly EMA to Edinburgh than XC and your luggage is more secure stowed away.....though we have twice had bags go astray but not in the UK.

 

 There are occasions when you have little option but to use the train for overnight stays.London is one destination and later this month we’re going to Bath for a couple of nights and that’s a city where it’s inadvisable to take your car if at all possible. So quite possibly we’ll sample the seating and luggage “facilities “ of a GWR Azuma between Temple Meads and Bath.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mallard60022]

1 hour ago, CloggyDog said:

 

If you mean the 8 ex-GatEx Class 460 'Darth Vader' EMUs, they've all been converted to 458 cars - the 30 existing 458s all strengthened to 5-car and most of the remaining 460s cars converted/reformed into 6 additional 458 5 car sets (identifiable by the 'ribbon' glazing on all cars). That left half-a-dozen cars which were stripped for spares and scrapped.

 

 

 

 

Shows how up to date with 'modern stuff' I am!!!

[corneliuslundie]

When the current franchise and non-franchise using the 800 series sets come  up for rebidding is any TOC going to want to take them on? There are enough other current disincentives to bidding for franchises without unsuitable stock. We have already seen one major player withdraw.

Jonathan

[The Stationmaster]

Amusingly our local branch user group (BUG) has a session next week with a person from NR and GWR's 'Head of Complaints' (or whatever her official title is).  Having checked her CV out on Linked In she appears not too have any previous railway experience (or any she is bold enough to mention)  so it could well be rather amusing asking her about getting GWR's IETs the right way round and discussing the seats on them and 387s.  All I need to do then is chuck in questions about catering trolleys plus luggage space and we'll be in for a grand evening 

[Mallard60022]

My friends (and others), I have some good news about the LNER 800s. I saw one yesterday, it was working and it was very shiny as it raced up towards wherever, non stop through 36E. CBA to see if it was service or ECS. I did not get the number as I was half asleep.

Ar$£

[caradoc]

An 'interesting' journey on a Class 802 from the West Country today. Sat in a seat with a green 'Available' reservation light above, another passenger then claimed they had booked that seat; Somebody said that the reservations were not working, but I had walked through from another coach in which they definitely were working; Is it possible for the reservation displays to be working in one vehicle, but not another, of the same set ? 

 

There was also a repeated and at times loud banging from underneath the coach (on an almost brand new train). I considered mentioning it to the Guard, but from Exeter to Reading they never appeared (so there was no ticket check), and the catering trolley made its first appearance 5 minutes before Reading, and had not reached my seat when I alighted ! Nobody else in the vehicle seemed concerned however.

 

I am always prepared to give new trains the benefit of the doubt, but having travelled this week on Cross Country HSTs, and GWR's shortened HSTs, as well as Class 800 and 802 sets, the most comfortable and pleasant journeys by far were on the 40 year old trains, not the new ones. What a state of affairs.

 

[caradoc]

(I should add that I was most impressed at Reading to join the 1230 Paddington-Weston-Super-Mare which was already in the platform at 1254 ! However I subsequently learned that the train had started from Reading due to signalling failure at Chippenham).

[Oldddudders]

A late former senior colleague and mentor, I suppose, found himself travelling in a DEMU coach beneath which there was a horrible banging noise, distracting him. He wondered whether he should react, but just then the banging got worse and then abruptly stopped, indicating that whatever was banging had now fallen off, so he went back to his paper. Nobody died. 

[billbedford]

1 hour ago, caradoc said:

There was also a repeated and at times loud banging from underneath the coach (on an almost brand new train).

 

 

Were you sitting near the Pantograph by any chance? Cos some circuit breakers can make that noise as neutral sections are crossed.

[Coryton]

Today's IET update.

 

Another trip to London.

 

The good news:

 

Trains both ways correctly oriented - including both halves of a 2x5 unit.

 

Reservations seemed to work on both trains.

 

Neither was diesel all the way (unlike my previous trip to London which had them on diesel the full time both ways).

 

On the other hand:

 

Windows still filthy.

 

On the way out no sign of the trolley for the first hour of the journey. No catering announcements on either train.

 

And a distinct lack of water in the toilets. 

 

I would like to be be able to flush toilets and wash my hands, but otherwise I'm still find it a big improvement on what GWR did to their HSTs.

 

 

[rodent279]

10 hours ago, Coryton said:

Today's IET update.

 

Another trip to London.

 

The good news:

 

Trains both ways correctly oriented - including both halves of a 2x5 unit.

 

Reservations seemed to work on both trains.

 

Neither was diesel all the way (unlike my previous trip to London which had them on diesel the full time both ways).

 

On the other hand:

 

Windows still filthy.

 

On the way out no sign of the trolley for the first hour of the journey. No catering announcements on either train.

 

And a distinct lack of water in the toilets. 

 

I would like to be be able to flush toilets and wash my hands, but otherwise I'm still find it a big improvement on what GWR did to their HSTs.

 

 

That is one of my biggest bugbears. If they do nothing else, they should make an effort to ensure toilets work, are clean and have water to wash hands. Better dirty windows and exterior than non-operational toilets.

[Zomboid]

I remember reading (Modern Railways I think) that the method of filling the water tanks on these new trains involves some kind of special threaded connector, rather than the conical thing to jam a hose onto that mk3s had. So it's quite possible that not everywhere that needs water supplies has been upgraded to be 800 compatible. Hopefully it's only temporary, and filling them at stations will come along in due course.

 

Of course, Paddington has plumbing for tank filling installed in the platforms. At 23m intervals...

[rodent279]

2 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

I remember reading (Modern Railways I think) that the method of filling the water tanks on these new trains involves some kind of special threaded connector, rather than the conical thing to jam a hose onto that mk3s had. So it's quite possible that not everywhere that needs water supplies has been upgraded to be 800 compatible. Hopefully it's only temporary, and filling them at stations will come along in due course.

 

Of course, Paddington has plumbing for tank filling installed in the platforms. At 23m intervals...

It's all so well thought through, isn't it?

[The Stationmaster]

14 hours ago, billbedford said:

 

Were you sitting near the Pantograph by any chance? Cos some circuit breakers can make that noise as neutral sections are crossed.

Having sat underneath the pantograph on several occasions they never seem to have made any noticeable noise at any time - the only way you know you're under one is because of the lower ceiling.

Banging from underneath vehicles is a different matter and I suspect it is more linked to noise from bogies than anything else as it becomes most noticeable at times of rough riding - however that is more apparent on 800s than 802s in my experience (or maybe the 802s don't have so much mileage on them?).

[Coryton]

3 hours ago, Zomboid said:

I remember reading (Modern Railways I think) that the method of filling the water tanks on these new trains involves some kind of special threaded connector, rather than the conical thing to jam a hose onto that mk3s had. So it's quite possible that not everywhere that needs water supplies has been upgraded to be 800 compatible. Hopefully it's only temporary, and filling them at stations will come along in due course.

 

Of course, Paddington has plumbing for tank filling installed in the platforms. At 23m intervals...

 

I think it was suggested above that the water tank sizes are matched to the retention tanks so there should be no need to fill during the day - if you did, there would be nowhere for it to go.

 

However...as there were water-less toilets on the 9:26 from Cardiff to Paddington, that suggests to me that either there is a leak or they weren't full enough in the first place.

 

I don't think there is a train early enough for this to have even made one trip from London to Swansea first, and even if it did that shouldn't have emptied the tanks.

 

So not good really. Having people with hands covered in soap wandering the train in search of a working tap is not good. (Though I've seen it on the Eurostar too).

 

On the IET back the toilets had water. But on one of them the inside of the ventilator at the bottom of the door had been removed, leaving it looking very grotty - it looked like a train that had been in service a lot more than two years.

 

And all the carpet in the vestibule had been taken up.

 

It would most interesting to know if the contracts are set up so there is any penalty for turning out trains with empty water tanks, filthy windows and missing carpet.

 

14 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Having sat underneath the pantograph on several occasions they never seem to have made any noticeable noise at any time - the only way you know you're under one is because of the lower ceiling.

Banging from underneath vehicles is a different matter and I suspect it is more linked to noise from bogies than anything else as it becomes most noticeable at times of rough riding - however that is more apparent on 800s than 802s in my experience (or maybe the 802s don't have so much mileage on them?).

 

There was certainly some banging on my return trip too. Something hitting a stop in the suspension?

 

Finally, there was a nice FGW livery in Kings Cross yesterday afternoon, which seems a bit curious.

 

I would have thought now the LNER "IET's" are running (I'm not a fan of the "A" word) they wouldn't need to be bringing in HSTs from elsewhere.

[The Stationmaster]

There seem to be lots of 'gaps' in the contracts if what we see in service is any guide.  I wonder if Hitachi are still short of staff at North Pole?

[Coryton]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

There seem to be lots of 'gaps' in the contracts if what we see in service is any guide.  I wonder if Hitachi are still short of staff at North Pole?

 

It could be that Hitachi are paying penalties for some or all of the less than ideal things seen in service.

 

But either way the setup doesn't seem to be conducive to actually getting the trains in service in the right condition.

 

And as a random comment - it would be nice to see the end seats in the coaches where the door pockets are replaced with luggage racks.

 

It would make the luggage provision a bit more reasonable, do away with seats that aren't that nice to be in, and the reduction in seating capacity would be very small in percentage terms, with overall capacity still considerably higher than in the HST days.

 

Although I think when considering luggage provision I think some people overlook the fact that there is some useful luggage space between seat backs in most coaches where the table seats are.

 

Edited to add a couple of photos:

 

Unusual HST line-up in Kings Cross

 

 

Lack of carpet on the IET home

 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2019 by Coryton
Add photos

[iands]

28 minutes ago, Coryton said:

(I'm not a fan of the "A" word)

Personal preference of course, but I think the "A" word is quite apt for the ECML. However, it is perhaps as well they didn't choose the "Western" translation for the GWR sets. I can't imagine that "Seibu no" would go down very well!

[Coryton]

1 hour ago, iands said:

Personal preference of course, but I think the "A" word is quite apt for the ECML. However, it is perhaps as well they didn't choose the "Western" translation for the GWR sets. I can't imagine that "Seibu no" would go down very well!

 

Personal preference indeed. I think it just sounds daft. Also, despite what Virgin/LNER marketing might say, East in Japanese is "Higashi"

 

Azuma is, I believe, an archaic name for Eastern Japan...

 

We will see if it catches on.

 

 

[iands]

24 minutes ago, Coryton said:

 

Personal preference indeed. I think it just sounds daft. Also, despite what Virgin/LNER marketing might say, East in Japanese is "Higashi"

 

Azuma is, I believe, an archaic name for Eastern Japan...

 

We will see if it catches on.

 

 

I bow to your greater knowledge. I was relying on Google, and it is telling me that Azuma and Higashi are one and the same thing - East. That said, I think I prefer Azuma to Higashi.

[Mallard60022]

4 hours ago, Coryton said:

And as a random comment - it would be nice to see the end seats in the coaches where the door pockets are replaced with luggage racks.

It would make the luggage provision a bit more reasonable, do away with seats that aren't that nice to be in, and the reduction in seating capacity would be very small in percentage terms, with overall capacity still considerably higher than in the HST days.

 

Although I think when considering luggage provision I think some people overlook the fact that there is some useful luggage space between seat backs in most coaches where the table seats are.

What a wizard wheeze dear boy. That is probably one thing that would cut out a huge percentage of the moans on the LNER FB threads. If thetre were some flap down seats there as well it wouldn't be very cosy but it might provide somewhere for someone to  at least rest their legs on some of the well overcrowded services that I have seen on FB.

 

I suppose that might become more 'known' as the trains continue to fall to pieces, sorry, become more frequent in service?

 

That vestibule floor appears to have possibly been damaged by a flood from the bog; that's bad news if it was!

Provision of equipment to turn around a train in super quick time is essential. The cleaning Staff I saw at Leeds managed a whole train in 15 minutes, including a vacuum of First, however the Staff in First are having to set out fresh dining stuff on the tables during the last stages of the previous journey and that seems a bit 'unprofessional', not by the Staff but the obvious lack of time to do stuff. I shall be testing out the first Zoomer to York (from 36E ) on August 1st.  The turn around there is only about 30 IIRC minutes even if the down service is on time and that does not include unloading and loading of 'customers' (yuch). I shall see what's what, but my journey is only about 35 minutes so I will miss the main issues and if I was in First I wouldn't get fodder either, unless I was very clever and sat next to the Galley.

There appears to be some on train Staff that collect 'rubbish' during the journey on LNER services; essential these days. I wonder if they ae also used to service the bogs?

Phil

Edited July 21, 2019 by Mallard60022
An increasing inability to string two wor ds to geth er.

[caradoc]

18 hours ago, billbedford said:

 

Were you sitting near the Pantograph by any chance? Cos some circuit breakers can make that noise as neutral sections are crossed.

 

The banging was definitely from underneath, and anyway it occurred several times between Exeter and Newbury, so no pantograph involved !

 

[Mallard60022]

1 hour ago, caradoc said:

 

The banging was definitely from underneath, and anyway it occurred several times between Exeter and Newbury, so no pantograph involved !

 

Could it have been someone stowing away because the ticket prices are so extortionate?

A.P. Irate

[Ken.W]

5 hours ago, Coryton said:

 

I think it was suggested above that the water tank sizes are matched to the retention tanks so there should be no need to fill during the day - if you did, there would be nowhere for it to go.

 

However...as there were water-less toilets on the 9:26 from Cardiff to Paddington, that suggests to me that either there is a leak or they weren't full enough in the first place.

 

 

 

Finally, there was a nice FGW livery in Kings Cross yesterday afternoon, which seems a bit curious.

 

I would have thought now the LNER "IET's" are running (I'm not a fan of the "A" word) they wouldn't need to be bringing in HSTs from elsewhere.

 

Yes, as has been discussed on here previously, tanking of the toilets is Hitachi's responsibility, and has to be done on the depots. It can't be done in service while platformed.

And as we've seen with a number of issues, including also the external train cleaning, Hitachi don't like letting anyone else play with their train sets.

 

The FGW HST at KGX would most likely be one of a pair of short-formed sets on short-term hire to Hull Trains, as they do seem to have an unfortunate habit of breaking too many of their 180s

[Mallard60022]

5 hours ago, Ken.W said:

 

Yes, as has been discussed on here previously, tanking of the toilets is Hitachi's responsibility, and has to be done on the depots. It can't be done in service while platformed.

And as we've seen with a number of issues, including also the external train cleaning, Hitachi don't like letting anyone else play with their train sets.

 

The FGW HST at KGX would most likely be one of a pair of short-formed sets on short-term hire to Hull Trains, as they do seem to have an unfortunate habit of breaking too many of their 180s

Do HT, as part of First Group, still actually have to hire the things? Seems a bit rotten.

P