Class 800 - Updates

[Bomag]

18 minutes ago, jools1959 said:

Has 800101 been released back into service as I’ve not seen it since it was in Virgin East Coast vinyls.  I’ve seen all the other 800/1’s either on test or in service in full LNER livery but 101 seems to have disappeared 

 

Some vehicles from 800101 were reported as being used in some 800/3s, like 800001 and 002 its not in normal use.

[rodent279]

So..... Is GWR now a fully 80x railway, apart from non-intercity services, and the short formation HST's?

Edited August 8, 2019 by rodent279

[St. Simon]

1 hour ago, rodent279 said:

So..... Is GWR now a fully 80x railway, apart from non-intercity services, and the short formation HST's?

 

Hi,

 

Yes, all the major intercity services are in the hands of Class 80x units.

 

Simon

[West Junction]

8 hours ago, jools1959 said:

Has 800101 been released back into service as I’ve not seen it since it was in Virgin East Coast vinyls.  I’ve seen all the other 800/1’s either on test or in service in full LNER livery but 101 seems to have disappeared 

 

Now back at Eastleigh.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K02697/2019/08/01/advanced

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K02697/2019/08/02/advanced

Hauled by 66719 arriving Eastleigh 02/08.

[talisman56]

2 hours ago, St. Simon said:

 

Hi,

 

Yes, all the major intercity services are in the hands of Class 80x units.

 

Simon

 

But not necessarily correctly oriented. From my observations yesterday, all the 2x 5-car formations were all correctly 'First Class at the London end', whereas of the 9-car sets I saw in South Wales, 50% were so oriented, the others with the First Class at the 'country' end, including the set that we travelled on from Newport to Bristol Parkway.

Edited August 8, 2019 by talisman56

[black and decker boy]

More 80x for LNER to satisfy 2021 timetable upgrade??

 

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/more-new-trains-on-lner-wish-list

[Mallard60022]

9 minutes ago, black and decker boy said:

More 80x for LNER to satisfy 2021 timetable upgrade??

 

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/more-new-trains-on-lner-wish-list

Oh no, not more Azumas? Please get something else; even redundant Midland Mainline Units would be better. Upgraded HSTs that are just lying around? The out of use Elizabeth Line Units are doing bu##er all.

The travelling mobs will be up in arms unless there are a lot of improvements on the Azuma 'problems'. There will be riots.

Ar$£

[ess1uk]

They don’t have to be zumas but would they really want another mixed fleet?

at least they should get some say in what order?

uprated Diesel engines?

[Ron Ron Ron]

......He explained that “slightly more than six” would be required, but did not give a definitive number.

These would likely be ten-car trains.

LNER later confirmed the figure was could be from six to eight.

 

Ideally, the company would like to increase its existing Hitachi order.

However, the operator must comply with European Union regulations which decrees there must be an open competition.

Doughty said there was no option for additional Azumas, and that the 65 on order would be the only ones from that contract.

 

A micro fleet of 6 to 8 trains ???  Mmmmm????

EU regulations.......what about First Group's order for additional trains (the 802's) for GWR and similar for TPX and HT.

Plus October 31st.

 

 

.

[royaloak]

2 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

 

 

A micro fleet of 6 to 8 trains ???  Mmmmm????

EU regulations.......what about First Group's order for additional trains (the 802's) for GWR and similar for TPX and HT.

Plus October 31st.

 

 

.

I believe they all went through the EURJ procurement thingamajig.

[Ron Ron Ron]

18 minutes ago, ess1uk said:

They don’t have to be zumas but would they really want another mixed fleet?

at least they should get some say in what order?

uprated Diesel engines?

 

If they are intended for use on London to Edinburgh, in place of the previous plan to retain a small number of 225 sets, then more 801's would fit the bill and be cheaper.

No need for "uprated Diesel engines" in that case.

 

I guess if it wasn't for the limitations of the IEP contract, they could have extended a number of their 5-car trains to 9 or 10 car and removed some of the 5+5 diagrams.

Each 5+5 becoming two 9 or 10 car trains.

 

 

 

.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Ron Ron Ron

[Siberian Snooper]

2 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Oh no, not more Azumas? Please get something else; even redundant Midland Mainline Units would be better. Upgraded HSTs that are just lying around? The out of use Elizabeth Line Units are doing bu##er all.

The travelling mobs will be up in arms unless there are a lot of improvements on the Azuma 'problems'. There will be riots.

Ar$£

 

You don't want to ride in the Elizabeth Line units, sitting sideways at speed, I found it unsettling between Ealing Broadway and Paddington last year when I rode on one. 

 

 

[Mallard60022]

3 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

If they are intended for use on London to Edinburgh, in place of the previous plan to retain a small number of 225 sets, then more 801's would fit the bill and be cheaper.

No need for "uprated Diesel engines" in that case.

 

I guess if it wasn't for the limitations of the IEP contract, they could have extended a number of their 5-car trains to 9 or 10 car and removed some of the 5+5 diagrams.

Each 5+5 becoming two 9 or 10 car trains.

 

 

 

.

They can do what they like with the Azumas but they will lose many long distance passengers to air (Edinburgh and Newcastle and maybe even Darlo) and shorter distance passengers to car or Thameslink (from Peterborough) if the LNER feedback on their site is to be believed, if LNER can not get some sort of dispensation to do some changes to the existing Azumas. They are not popular with most regular users and the fares are really pi##ing off business users.

Phil

[TravisM]

Reading the article, they have ruled out retaining several Class 91’s and Mk4 sets due to the costs of rebuilding the sets.  I’d say that if Abellio want to replace their complete East Midlands Trains fleet, the Class 222 “Meridians” would be a ideal and several could be even extended back to their 9 car sets.  

 

Ideal substitute’s for the HST’s and a better choice to go over Highland mainline.

[phil-b259]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

They can do what they like with the Azumas but they will lose many long distance passengers to air (Edinburgh and Newcastle and maybe even Darlo) and shorter distance passengers to car or Thameslink (from Peterborough) if the LNER feedback on their site is to be believed, if LNER can not get some sort of dispensation to do some changes to the existing Azumas. They are not popular with most regular users and the fares are really pi##ing off business users.

Phil

 

I would imagine certain sections of HM government would quite like that

 

More car use = more fuel duty revenue and a boost for car manufacturers as folk upgrade.

More air passengers = more air passenger tax revenue plus more justification for airport expansion.

Fewer train passengers = smaller and less frequent trains can be used (i.e. a lower subsidy and less need to renew the rails quite as often helping he government owned NR look better.

 

Now, remind me who was the guiding hand as regards the IEP / class 800 project.....

[frobisher]

8 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

If they are intended for use on London to Edinburgh, in place of the previous plan to retain a small number of 225 sets, then more 801's would fit the bill and be cheaper.

No need for "uprated Diesel engines" in that case.

 

Or, if you went down the uprated engine route, you could displace units from the Aberdeen and Inverness routes and maybe have something that might actually not embarrass itself towards the top of Scotland...

[Mallard60022]

Two 5 Car Units have gone south through York in the last half hour. One in full LNER livery the second still in Grey. Both Heaton to Donny AFAICS.

P

[4630]

An interesting few hours spent at Doncaster station yesterday watching the transition from old to new for LNER and Northern rolling stock on the ECML.  Also the forthcoming demise of East Midlands Trains as it morphs into East Midlands Railway on 18th August, although I understand that some debranding and rebranding is already underway.

 

With class 800s working some LNER diagrams to Leeds, York and Edinburgh, plus others in testing, there were still at the moment numerous class 91s and HSTs about.

 

800104, with additional LNER tartan branding, working 1A18, 08.45 Leeds to London Kings Cross   

 

800203 at the front of 5Q30, 10.19 Doncaster IEP to Leeds...

 

...with 801101 bringing up the rear.

 

Interesting times.

Edited August 9, 2019 by 4630

[corneliuslundie]

that last photo says it all. From the sublime to the ridiculous - or vice versa, as you prefer.

Jonathan

[Mallard60022]

9 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

that last photo says it all. From the sublime to the ridiculous - or vice versa, as you prefer.

Jonathan

I know which one is more comfortable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P

[Gwiwer]

On 08/08/2019 at 08:38, St. Simon said:

 

Hi,

 

Yes, all the major intercity services are in the hands of Class 80x units.

 

Simon

Except, and I hope this counts as a "major intercity service, the Night Riviera.  In my book that is every bit as important as the daytime trains with some of us having fought tooth and nail to keep it and others working overtime to ensure it went into and stayed in the franchise.

 

Unfortunately for the overnight traveller who cannot afford, or obtain (because they often book out), sleeping berths the "wakers" are now refurbished with bright lighting and hard upright seating akin to the 8xx series sets.

 

 

[Gwiwer]

5 hours ago, 4630 said:

An interesting few hours spent at Doncaster station yesterday watching the transition from old to new for LNER .....

Interesting times.

Indeed. 

 

I spent a few hours on each of Tuesday and Thursday around Finsbury Park and Alexandra Palace observing the changeover.  HSTs and Azumas there were in about equal measure with the class 91+Mk4 sets conspicuous by their near-absence.  It might have been luck of the draw as there have always been HST duties to and from destinations other than those north of Edinburgh (for which they have been the only available traction throughout the electrified era) in order to balance the stock diagrams.  It is some years now since I was somewhat miffed to find my Leeds - Kings Cross service was a diesel rather than an electric but in 2019 I would happily settle for either of the old order.

 

No Northern trains on the fringes of the Capital but the changed inner and outer suburban scene was also quite a contrast.  Class 313 suburban electrics have almost given way to the new 717s on Hertford and Welwyn duties, class 387 now has control of the Cambridge / Kings Lynn fast trains other than a few weekday peak services still covered by 365s.  And long white worms called class 700 have taken over the Kings Cross - Peterborough run and the Cambridge stoppers.  It does seem odd to sit at Finsbury Park and hear trains announced as going to Horsham and Brighton!  Moreover Kings Cross is no longer the London stop for them as they use the subterranean box at St. Pancras International - even though one might argue over what constitutes "one station" in that complex these days.  

 

I have to say the Azumas in LNER livery appear very smart with the fine red / black stripes suiting them well.  Far better than plain marrow-green as used by GWR.  I haven't sampled them on the ECML yet so cannot comment upon seating and general comfort though I am assured they feature "proper" catering facilities.  If the latter is good enough for the 4-hour trip to Edinburgh then it should surely be good enough for the much longer trips to Cornwall ......... 

[4630]

42 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

Indeed. 

 

I spent a few hours on each of Tuesday and Thursday around Finsbury Park and Alexandra Palace observing the changeover.  HSTs and Azumas there were in about equal measure with the class 91+Mk4 sets conspicuous by their near-absence.  It might have been luck of the draw as there have always been HST duties to and from destinations other than those north of Edinburgh (for which they have been the only available traction throughout the electrified era) in order to balance the stock diagrams.  It is some years now since I was somewhat miffed to find my Leeds - Kings Cross service was a diesel rather than an electric but in 2019 I would happily settle for either of the old order.

 

I used LNER’s services to and from Leeds and was on Doncaster station from around 8.45am and stayed for a little over 5 hours..

 

My outward service, 1A15 08.15 from Leeds, was correctly booked as an HST as it’s one of the few LNER services in the current timetable that starts at Harrogate and hasn’t yet been diagrammed for an Azuma.

 

The return service, 1D14 14.15 from Doncaster was a class 91 and Mk4 set.

 

During the time I was at Doncaster I’d estimate that the Leeds services were split pretty evenly between HSTs, class 91/Mark 4 and class 800 Azumas.

 

The Newcastle services were, I think, still all class 91/Mark 4, as were all but one each of the York and Edinburgh services where an Azuma is now diagrammed.  

 

HSTs, of course, currently work LNER’s Inverness and Aberdeen services.  

 

The transition is interesting, to me at least, in terms of operationally how it’s being carried out.  How the Azumas are being integrated into the existing timetable and how the service for passengers is changing. 

 

I guess that from LNER’s point of view, the 8th August was a good day.  Network Rail’s wires stayed where they should be - above the trains.  There was no service disruption to LNER that I was aware of.  Their services, on the whole, mostly ran to time.  Nothing ‘sat down’ and the class 67 ‘Thunderbird’ stayed shut down in Doncaster West Yard all the time I was there.  

 

As and when I can I’ll repeat my visit over the coming months to see what’s changed.  In 12 months time it’s certainly going to be a whole lot different.

 

Edited August 9, 2019 by 4630

[hexagon789]

On 08/08/2019 at 12:49, Ron Ron Ron said:

If they are intended for use on London to Edinburgh, in place of the previous plan to retain a small number of 225 sets, then more 801's would fit the bill and be cheaper.

 

They are and the advantage would be no need to shorten to maintain performance.

 

The 225s were going to be reduced to 7+DVT so that they had a comparable level of acceleration to the Azumas, needed for the 2021 timetable improves when the Edinburgh fasts are slated to become more limited stop and indeed faster.

 

Whether it happens is anyone's guess, though the current LNER MD certainly seemed to have aspirations for it, but the proposal is for the Edinburgh fasts to become Newcastle only one hour (4hrs to Edinburgh); York & Newcastle the next hour (4hrs 05 to Edinburgh).

[Ken.W]

Well, this is it

1E08, 10:28 NCL - KGX, 80x