Class 800 - Updates

[rodent279]

1 hour ago, royaloak said:

No doubt the driver will be suspended while they check the download! 

Parkway, or TM?

There was a Padd-Parkway non-stop scheduled in 67 min at one point, in about 1986.

[royaloak]

26 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

Parkway, or TM?

There was a Padd-Parkway non-stop scheduled in 67 min at one point, in about 1986.

Probably Parkway. as BTM is a bit of a slow slog with an IET on the diesel bits.

[Gwiwer]

On 24/09/2019 at 18:17, Siberian Snooper said:

I had an email from  GW this afternoon about the forthcoming timetable changes,  it seems that we are losing the Plymouth, Paddington via Bristol and Bath,  does this mean that LA drivers will lose the opportunity to maintain their route knowledge via Bristol?

 

 

Probably the same email I received.  I checked with the information which is available online but which is a little thin on the ground for now.  It seems that as feared places like Hayle lose all direct London services meaning an enforced change somewhere - ostensibly Plymouth though at Camborne if one wants to be sure of a seat.  This might not be the final timetable; in other places here and at local council level GWR and their unofficial staff comments have implied that the new timetable would see more trains and different times but no net loss of direct services.

 

First has been attempting to extract passenger traffic from Hayle by running a bus service to St. Erth allegedly to fill in the large service gaps which exist currently.  I have yet to see anyone use it and the drivers suggest likewise that it is never used.  People in Hayle wish to use their own station.

 

Or is it more sinister than this and the 8xx are simply no longer going to stop at short (as opposed to slightly-shorter-than-train) platforms?  2x5-car units stopping at Hayle, Lostwithiel, St. Germans, Saltash and Ivybridge presents a problem in that passengers wishing to alight may be in the rear unit - including in reserved seats - which will not be unlocked at these stations.

[royaloak]

19 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

Or is it more sinister than this and the 8xx are simply no longer going to stop at short (as opposed to slightly-shorter-than-train) platforms?  2x5-car units stopping at Hayle, Lostwithiel, St. Germans, Saltash and Ivybridge presents a problem in that passengers wishing to alight may be in the rear unit - including in reserved seats - which will not be unlocked at these stations.

A situation which should never arise if the seat reservation system was fit for purpose.

[Gwiwer]

11 minutes ago, royaloak said:

A situation which should never arise if the seat reservation system was fit for purpose.

And if sets were reliably the right way round.  Wrong-way-round on an HST or 9-car IET is of less consequence as passengers can walk through (assuming they are alerted to the need to do so) but just as has always been the case when two Voyager or, less commonly, two Meridian units are coupled there is no way through the middle when a pair of 5-car IETs form your train.

 

As I noted above the reservation system doesn't always work at all.  On my down overnight trip card labels were in use and were noticed and respected by those joining.  On my return up trip the entire system was offline but with no option to label the seats at PNZ it had to be open slather.  On other journeys there still seems to be a learning curve (especially in Cornwall) to be climbed as it appears commonplace for anyone to sit anywhere and if challenged simply argue "there's no label".  The traffic lights are better than no lights (as on several slightly older types) but far from everyone notices them as high as they are.

[Covkid]

1 hour ago, Gwiwer said:

First has been attempting to extract passenger traffic from Hayle by running a bus service to St. Erth allegedly to fill in the large service gaps which exist currently.  I have yet to see anyone use it and the drivers suggest likewise that it is never used.  People in Hayle wish to use their own station.

 

Or is it more sinister than this and the 8xx are simply no longer going to stop at short (as opposed to slightly-shorter-than-train) platforms?  2x5-car units stopping at Hayle, Lostwithiel, St. Germans, Saltash and Ivybridge presents a problem in that passengers wishing to alight may be in the rear unit - including in reserved seats - which will not be unlocked at these stations.

 

I thought the whole idea of five car class 802s was the ten cars from Paddington would split at Plymouth with a five car running to Penzance and back.

 

I really dont see any sense in two thirds of intermediate cabs taking up valuable platform space where passengers want to board. Then there is the "double manning" of both sets unless one is locked out of use. I understand the "double fives" just slightly more over at Kings Cross where the first three paired five car Leeds diagrams have started  this week. Once again double on board staff, or units locked out of use.    

[royaloak]

19 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

And if sets were reliably the right way round.  Wrong-way-round on an HST or 9-car IET is of less consequence as passengers can walk through (assuming they are alerted to the need to do so) but just as has always been the case when two Voyager or, less commonly, two Meridian units are coupled there is no way through the middle when a pair of 5-car IETs form your train.

A wrong way round set shouldnt cause an issue because A-E should always be Country end and G-L should be London end, the issue is some staff putting them in wrong or amending them when they were right to start with.

[Siberian Snooper]

7 minutes ago, royaloak said:

A wrong way round set shouldnt cause an issue because A-E should always be Country end and G-L should be London end, the issue is some staff putting them in wrong or amending them when they were right to start with.

 

As happened when I returned from Reading a few weeks ago,  the sets were wrongly labelled at Paddington and when someone noticed it, it was corrected and caused a late departure and all reservations were abandoned as some people were now in the wrong part of the train. Lots of announcements on the approaches to Plymouth to make sure that if you were going forward to Cornwall to make sure you move to the front set.

 

 

[Gwiwer]

So far most Cornish workings I have seen have been 9-car sets.  I too heard the talk about splitting at Plymouth but in simple terms Cornwall is too busy for a  5-car train.  A 9-car set often arrives Up at or departs Down from Plymouth well over half full and sometimes almost completely full.  A couple of workings are booked 5-car I believe but as much as anything because 10-car trains cannot be accommodated at Long Rock.

[TFR]

Is the GWR logo on the nose a new thing getting rolled out across the rest of their fleet or is it only on certain units?

[royaloak]

8 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

So far most Cornish workings I have seen have been 9-car sets.  I too heard the talk about splitting at Plymouth but in simple terms Cornwall is too busy for a  5-car train.  A 9-car set often arrives Up at or departs Down from Plymouth well over half full and sometimes almost completely full.  A couple of workings are booked 5-car I believe but as much as anything because 10-car trains cannot be accommodated at Long Rock.

Not according to those who make these decisions it isnt, from December there are lots of detachments on the Down and attachments on the Up at Plymouth, what could possibly go wrong!

[royaloak]

2 hours ago, TFR said:

Is the GWR logo on the nose a new thing getting rolled out across the rest of their fleet or is it only on certain units?

Most/all should be getting it in the end but at the moment it isnt a priority.

 

The silver strip around the top marker indicating the First class end is a good idea though.

[royaloak]

16 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

 

As happened when I returned from Reading a few weeks ago,  the sets were wrongly labelled at Paddington and when someone noticed it, it was corrected and caused a late departure and all reservations were abandoned as some people were now in the wrong part of the train. Lots of announcements on the approaches to Plymouth to make sure that if you were going forward to Cornwall to make sure you move to the front set.

 

 

By labelled I assume you mean paper reservations, that has been going on for a while with them labelling as if A was on the blocks, words have been had (again) so that issue should be solved, its people getting the electronic reservations wrong which is the current problem, although sometimes the computer does it all by itself without human intervention, I have had that happen to me twice now, once at Newton Abbot on the Up with a Penzance to Paddington service (5 attached to the front at Plymouth), it was correct leaving Plymouth, approaching and leaving Totnes and on approach to Newton Abbot, as the train stopped I checked the TMS for the correct info re the station for the door release and the sets were the wrong way round but it was too late to do anything about it, the other occasion was at Bristol on the Down with a Paddington to Plymouth service which changed while we were sat in the platform at Bristol Temple Meads.

 

Of course when we report it we are told it cant happen and somebody must have altered it, IE they basically called me a liar.

[royaloak]

9 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

So far most Cornish workings I have seen have been 9-car sets.  I too heard the talk about splitting at Plymouth but in simple terms Cornwall is too busy for a  5-car train.  A 9-car set often arrives Up at or departs Down from Plymouth well over half full and sometimes almost completely full.  A couple of workings are booked 5-car I believe but as much as anything because 10-car trains cannot be accommodated at Long Rock.

Neither can 9 car ones without blocking other sidings, the whole IET procurement with 26m long coaches has been one eff up after another.

 

Basically the early morning departures will be a mixture of 5s and then 9s, then during the day it will be 5s down (the other 5 detached at Plymouth so they can attach to a 5 car Up service) then the evening ones will be a mixture of 9s and then 5s to end of service with the 9s being serviced at Long Rock and got out of the way before the 5s arrive, that is how I read it.

 

For information a-

2+8 HST is 216m long (8x22.57, 2x17.7)

9 car IET is 234m long (26m each)

10 car IET 260m long (26m each)

[TFR]

50 minutes ago, royaloak said:

Most/all should be getting it in the end but at the moment it isnt a priority.

 

The silver strip around the top marker indicating the First class end is a good idea though.

Thanks. Now to try and get some transfers for the Hornby models...

[dibber25]

On 25/09/2019 at 19:08, rodent279 said:

Parkway, or TM?

There was a Padd-Parkway non-stop scheduled in 67 min at one point, in about 1986.

From Temple Meads. (CJL)

[rodent279]

1 hour ago, dibber25 said:

From Temple Meads. (CJL)

That's good going if it was from TM!

[Zomboid]

Via Badminton, though?

[rodent279]

With the climb up Filton, I'd still say that's good going.

[Siberian Snooper]

The up ex Plymouth 09.51, a good start this time  we even had the Penzance portion this time.  It was Ivybridge before my back started to play up and it was also the location at which the reservation system failed.  The sciatica kicked in at the Plymouth end of Marleyhead Tunnel. Not entirely sure what was going on,  but from Tivvy Parkway we started to get announcements that we were going to stop at Westbury,  from there we got held at Heywood Road Junction and crawled from there to close to Pewsey, where we went back to normal line speed 20 down at Reading and we clawed back a bit with some smart running to Paddington. The announcements were not very loud or clear about what was going on.

 

Window seat 16 has a nice pillar to look at.

 

The running was a bit rough at speed, I nearly had the trolley dolly and me coffee in me lap at Savernake. I wouldn't have complained about the trolley dolly,  but I would have drawn the line at the coffee.

 

 

[Gwiwer]

11 hours ago, royaloak said:

Not according to those who make these decisions it isnt, from December there are lots of detachments on the Down and attachments on the Up at Plymouth, what could possibly go wrong!

After a few trips on those ironing boards the locals might abandon in sufficient quantity to prove that correct.  It's not just me.  There are others on this thread suffering from the seats.  And for every one here there might be 100 or even 1000 out there in actual reality vowing to take the car next time.  It doesn't overload, you can relax and be comfortable in your seat and you can grab refreshments when ever it suits you.  There are down-sides, true.  Someone has to drive it.  That isn't necessarily relaxing.  But it has the advantage of going from your A to desired B more precisely than most train trips and almost always exactly when you want to go.

 

I very much fear the advantage is tipping back towards the private car as these wretched Japanese things take over on the longer runs.  Maybe not London - Bristol or even Cardiff.  But the comments I hear suggest many people are unhappy and the aches and pains I suffer (sometimes for 2-3 days after the journey) when sitting in the standard class seats may mean that London - Cornwall train travel by GWR will be a thing of the past.  The somewhat slower alternative is via the LSWR route to Exeter thence by HST.  Or possibly 150 or 158 according to what turns up.  

[royaloak]

Cant disagree with any of that, you have to remember the only input GWR had on the interiors was the seat fabric, everything else was at DaFT 'request'.

[jamie92208]

On the subje t of 800's, did anyone else see the episode of Train Truckers on Yesterday on Thursday night. One of the two storylines was movi g three completed 800 vehicles from Teesport to Hitachi at Doncaster. If you discRd the false dramatics in the commentary, i fou d it quite interesting. 

 

Jamie

[Ian Hargrave]

With regard to the seating posted above,what then when LNER introduce the Azuma on The Highland Chieftain on the long KX-Inverness run ? The real benefit there will undoubtedly be increased room and seating capacity.

But then,that applies to all services on the Highland main line which is still a mix of 170’s and “Classic”125 .Overcrowding at peak season (now) is chronic on Scotrail services .

[West Junction]

800113 5X96 Eastleigh to Doncaster this afternoon at Reading. 5Q96 ex Acton.

Edited September 30, 2019 by West Junction