Class 800 - Updates

[APOLLO]

New beer sponsored by GWR / LNER. Only available on the 800/1/2 !!

 

 

Brit15

[Mallard60022]

Bleddy hilarious. Wish I could drink some of that. 

However, apart from being in an absolute mess, Hull Trains are due some 'new' Zoomers in the not too distant future. I shall have to sample their examples to pop over to 'ull to see the arty farty exhibition that is on there just now. Somehow I am not expecting any difference except for livery and interior colours.

Softar$£.

[The Stationmaster]

20 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Despite the dire warnings in this thread that I will have back pain forever, be thrown about, and forced to drink unpalatable quasi-rosie-lee, I fully intend, on Thursday afternoon, to entrust life and limb to an IET from Padlington to Newton Abbot. Survival is likely. 

You'll probably be alright Ian, especially if you're on the right set.  In my experience the 802s ride better than the 800s but that might be down to age or the way the factory adjust suspension or w.h.y?   The ride also varies between vehicles and in my experience the ones with an engine underneath ride better than the ones that don't have that ballast while those on the outer ends of a set have, again in my experience, been the worst riders.  What is not very satisfactory in my view and experience is the lack of consistency in ride, for example going full bore on the Up Main you'll go through the running junction at Twyford West/Lands End on one set hardly noticing while on another everything underneath gets 'very busy' with some motion and a lot of banging and clattering.   Equally on the Down Main between, roughly, Acton/Ealing Broadway and just past Southall West Jcn one set I travelled on developed some genuinely alarming (to me) bad riding very much of the sort that in days gone by I'd have been 'phoning Control to get the set stopped for exam at the end of its journey but I have never experienced that since then on any IET = perfectly good riding all the way along that stretch.

 

As  yet I haven't experienced a 387 running at anything above 90 mph but they do ride well and it would probably be worth having a Main Line ride on one to see what they are likel flat out at 110mph.  But overall there is no doubt at all in my mind that the state of the track on the WR is worse than in was in the days whem Phillip Rees was WR CCE imposing his requirements on both design and maintenance; I wonder if his NR successor ever travels by train?

 

But bad riding is not limited to IETs.  I recently had a real rough house ride from KX to York on an HST and coming back on a Voyager via X Country wasn't much better.

[Ken.W]

On 01/11/2019 at 21:40, The Stationmaster said:

The rock & roll of the 'Nelsons' was quite enjoyable actually as it always seemed to be gradual rather than abrupt (or was that because of the track on the Portsmouth Direct?).  Gresley bogies could give a ropey ride at times and the design definitely gave rough riding on the GE suburban electric units.  Never noticed any problems on various Hawksworth, Collett or Stanier stock and the GW American bogies gave a lovely smooth ride although on the two trips I had on them although I doubt we got much faster than 60-70mph (on breakdown vans).

 

There were differing types of Gresley bogie though, and the GE Suburban units would probably have had the single bolster variety, rather than the compound bolster bogie used on mainline stock which was, apparently, noted for good riding (so I've read), and was used by BR in place of the BR1 when that proved inadequate on catering vehicles, before the Commonwealth type was adopted.

Perhaps that's where the problem lies with the 80x's, someone mentioned earlier they're based on a suburban type train, perhaps someone forgot to spec mainline bogies?

 

I found the ride on the 800s to be rather firm, and somewhat harsher than HSTs / Mk4s.

As various posts have commented on poor riding of a variety of stock, it seems to suggest that the real culprit lies elsewhere...

As one post remarked, even a Pacer's capable of a reasonable ride on good track. Over recent years I've noticed a marked decline in the condition of the ECML, and it's a long way from the "neglected" state handed over by BR on privatisation - not a single P-way caution and rode like a billiard table.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Ken.W

[melmerby]

Looks like these new Azumas have "warp drive" capability if you look at these times from Real Time Trains:

[Richard E]

7 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Looks like these new Azumas have "warp drive" capability if you look at these times from Real Time Trains:

 

It looks like an anomaly that has now been corrected:

 

[rodent279]

How do 800's compare to 395's for ride quality? Aren't they similar designs?

Edited November 5, 2019 by rodent279

[talisman56]

3 hours ago, Richard E said:

 

It looks like an anomaly that has now been corrected:

 

 

So what happened just before/at PBO that turned 2 minutes up to 118 down?

[Richard E]

Fatality at Grantham.

[4630]

 

Post deleted - posted at the same time as Richard E.

Edited November 5, 2019 by 4630

[Fat Controller]

3 hours ago, rodent279 said:

How do 800's compare to 395's for ride quality? Aren't they similar designs?

When first introduced, 395s were very hard-riding, most noticeably at the beginning of the London Tunnels. Subsequently, the suspension has been 're-tuned' to give a softer ride. I used the 800 series when they first appeared, about once every ten days or so,  and didn't notice them being as hard-riding.

[Mallard60022]

42 minutes ago, Richard E said:

Fatality at Grantham.

Sadly that is yet another in that area within 4 weeks. I received a text at 08.16 from LNER telling me the Retford York (10.49) was cancelled and their website was showing loads of 'troubles'. Thus I decided not to take my trip to York, went to the station to collect my tickets and sent them off for cancellation refund. I then discovered that services were running north and south and I could have taken the 10.05 for York or a later Leeds to Donny and change to something from there. No idea if this was a revised timetable or what? I CBA to check.

The 395 I took from St P to Broadstairs recently performed well on the fast main to Ashford and then fine on the country route out through Canterbury. Comfortable and would not have known it was at full tilt on HS1. My verdict on those, commuterish but impressive.

Phil

Edited November 5, 2019 by Mallard60022

[rodent279]

29 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

The 395 I took from St P to Broadstairs recently performed well on the fast main to Ashford and then fine on the country route out through Canterbury. Comfortable and would not have known it was at full tilt on HS1. My verdict on those, commuterish but impressive.

Phil

My one experience of a 395, a year or so before the Olympics, was that they were no worse than a 350 or similar EMU. Commuter interior, but no worries about ride or noise level.

[eastwestdivide]

37 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

commuterish but impressive

That's a good summary of my experience on the Javelins/395s, usually once every couple of months over the last 10 (!) years. 

140mph on a 395 on HS1 being a better ride quality than 125mph on an 800 between Doncaster/KX.

Move the doors to the ends, and the 395s wouldn't be far off inter-city standards.

[melmerby]

4 hours ago, Richard E said:

 

It looks like an anomaly that has now been corrected:

 

I think an up train's timings had crept into the down train table which was closing in on the destinations, just before i posted there were a couple more anomalous times but the down train was replacing them as it went on it's way.

[Gwiwer]

On 04/11/2019 at 00:17, adb968008 said:

Complaints about the ride of the 800’s and comparisons with pre-war LNER and SR rolling stock....

 

has everyone forgotten about pacers ? - and they've not even gone yet.

Pacers don’t travel at 125mph. And while they do get used on some inappropriately long journeys they are mostly of a nature where passengers make shorter journeys. 
 

London to Penzance or Aberdeen far exceed any Pacer working. 

[Mallard60022]

43 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

Pacers don’t travel at 125mph. And while they do get used on some inappropriately long journeys they are mostly of a nature where passengers make shorter journeys. 
 

London to Penzance or Aberdeen far exceed any Pacer working. 

Yup, I discovered one that went from Leeds to Morecambe, taking just over two hours. Fortunately I was only going to Shipley and that was enough.

P

[The Stationmaster]

16 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Yup, I discovered one that went from Leeds to Morecambe, taking just over two hours. Fortunately I was only going to Shipley and that was enough.

P

The longest trip I have made on one was Leeds to Castleford, regrettably I had to go back to Leeds on one.  I have travelled on one on the Cardiff valleys, and spent the entir  journey hoping for the return of Class 116 units.  And I have, twice, travelled on one running at maximum speed for much of my near 10 mile trip on the ECML wondering when the bl**dy doors were going to blow off and why the heater was set to 'burn a passenger to a crisp' temperature.  The nearest comparison I can make with them in respect of riding is a 4 wheel freight brakevan and the trip in the pacer on the ECML also came pretty near to one of them for draughts.

 

It would really be damning with faint praise to compare with a Pacer any other passenger vehicles running on British rails of standard gauge.

[Gwiwer]

I once had a real pacer misfortune.  Using a staff "box" for some free travel over otherwise seldom-travelled lines in the north-east and north-west I had one of the wretched things turn up on the Middlesbrough - Sunderland working.  I wasn't surprised when that turned into the Newcastle working because it appeared to be a through service on some but not all of the relevant timetable pages.  What I had failed to spot was that the very same service was advertised on another table as a through working from Sunderland to Metro Centre and such it duly became.  But the real pain (in many senses) was the fact that the Metro Centre journey was a through train to Carlisle meaning I was aboard the confounded thing from Middlesbrough to Carlisle.

 

My onward travels then took me via the Cumbrian coast to Workington and thence on to Lancaster.  Guess what formed the Lancaster-via-the-coast train for another four hours .........  

 

Back in the days when all those services were BR Provincial Sector, the 142 had its original bus seating but despite near-freezing temperatures no heating because oop north they are supposedly a tougher breed of folk.  At least the toilet worked.

 

I see 8xx are now in traffic with TPX.  Any first-hand accounts?  If nothing else they should ease the desperate (dangerous) levels of overcrowding found with the three-car 185s normally used.  

[adb968008]

On 05/11/2019 at 17:48, Gwiwer said:

Pacers don’t travel at 125mph. And while they do get used on some inappropriately long journeys they are mostly of a nature where passengers make shorter journeys. 
 

London to Penzance or Aberdeen far exceed any Pacer working. 

This threads gone all over the place.

i know pacers dont go at 125Mph.

 

I was responding to posts about 3rd Rail EMUs, Nelsons, Thompson bogies and other 1940’s hangovers, which clearly didn't go at 125mph either. For some reason people have a memory gap of bad riding trains from the war to 2019 that they can only compare to an Azuma to something that dates back to the days of food rationing.

 

Pacers are still with us, they bounce quite well.. if your worst experience was a Nelson, I suggest you get to Cardiff, Leeds or Manchester and find out what bouncy rides are like... it doesnt need to be at 125mph to be entertaining... i’ll take an 800 over a pacer for passenger comfort, but i’d also throw in a ride on the IOW at line speed for giggles too, especially in the south end as it goes through marshlands... they date from the war too, so might be more palatable for the comparison. 800s aren't too bad.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2019 by adb968008

[Siberian Snooper]

I weren't born until after food rationing,  but I have ridden on Nelson's,  IOW tube stock and zoomers and if I had to give any of them a miss then zoomers are the ones, regardless of speed.  Zoomers down our end of the world don't get much over 60 until the Exeter end of the seawall. I have travelled at 60 plus in the Leeds and  York areas at on pacers (skippers), the 2nd train journey that I remember was to Portsmouth harbour when going on holiday to the IOW, the train was a Nelson and the ferry was a steamer. The first train journey was to Brighton via Steyning behind steam. Various journeys on tube stock both in London and the IOW and so far zoomers come out at the bottom of the pile,  I can get sciatica between North Road and Laira,  although more often Hemerdon.

[Mallard60022]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

This threads gone all over the place.

i know pacers dont go at 125Mph.

 

I was responding to posts about 3rd Rail EMUs, Nelsons, Thompson bogies and other 1940’s hangovers, which clearly didn't go at 125mph either. For some reason people have a memory gap of bad riding trains from the war to 2019 that they can only compare to an Azuma to something that dates back to the days of food rationing.

 

 

That's a bit narky buddy. 

P

[adb968008]

On 04/11/2019 at 09:55, Mallard60022 said:

Pacers eh. Yup, they were designed for 125 mph running on the main lines in the south and west and up and down the ECML......they were utilitarian and have served us well. maybe the Montezoomas will have achieved the same in 40 years time (somehow I think they may have gone long before then).

“situations may be ironic, but only people can be sarcastic.”

As you don't like it returned to you, lets best leave it there and move on.

 

[Mallard60022]

43 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

“situations may be ironic, but only people can be sarcastic.”

As you don't like it returned to you, lets best leave it there and move on.

 

……….and that is patronising so I will move on 

Edited November 7, 2019 by Mallard60022

[hexagon789]

I've been wondering this for a while and this seems the place to ask - when on diesel mode how do the engines behave?

 

Is it like the Voyagers that the engines run at max revs with power supplied based on demand by the computer or is it like the HSTs that each power notch gives a certain engine RPM?