Class 800 - Updates

[phil-b259]

7 hours ago, Richard E said:

 

They reckon it has written off the HST power car, 43300.

 

 

I severely doubt there is anything fundamentally wrong with the HST such that it requires scrapping and is not repairable!

 

A better choice of words is "uneconomic to repair" - and were the 800s not taking over i have no doubt that would be the course of action.

 

Many a car has been brought back from the insurance company despite it being supposedly ' written off' after a crash and fully rebuilt because someone can see it has a future .

 

provided things like the underframe / chassis are not bent, etc then we are basically talking cosmetic work, (albut quite a lot of it including a new fibreglass nose).
 

[Covkid]

They haven't even got the power car into the depot yet so how can it be "written off" ?

[Titan]

The HST cabs are fibreglass modules and can be easily swapped, so a cheap and quick fix if a spare can be found...

 

[Richard E]

I agree with all that has been said about repairing the HST power car but is there the will to do it and, indeed, the spare parts needed. All I was doing was reporting what has been said.

[Legend]

3 minutes ago, Richard E said:

I agree with all that has been said about repairing the HST power car but is there the will to do it and, indeed, the spare parts needed. All I was doing was reporting what has been said.

 

You've got to wonder given that they are about to go out of service and that there are already many stored , whether anyone will spend the money. Its a shame but that the economics of it.

 

I've no idea how the crash happened but agree that the extent to which the 800 has derailed surely merits some investigation .

[25901]

The bigger question about the HST repair is do they have a spare cab.

And remember that one HST fleet owner has just given two away free of charge, so that's how much value they put on them.

[Fat Controller]

4 hours ago, Covkid said:

They haven't even got the power car into the depot yet so how can it be "written off" ?

'Subex'; the idea that used to be applied to wagons that if they had to have more than 'X' (less than ten bob, ISTR) spending on them, they were scrap. Your insurance company would apply the same principle if your car took a knock.

[Covkid]

5 hours ago, Covkid said:

They haven't even got the power car into the depot yet so how can it be "written off" ?

 

57 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

You've got to wonder given that they are about to go out of service and that there are already many stored , whether anyone will spend the money. Its a shame but that the economics of it.

 

I've no idea how the crash happened but agree that the extent to which the 800 has derailed surely merits some investigation .

 

46 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

'Subex'; the idea that used to be applied to wagons that if they had to have more than 'X' (less than ten bob, ISTR) spending on them, they were scrap. Your insurance company would apply the same principle if your car took a knock.

 

I agree with how things were under BR yes. But this is a different ballgame surely. 

I have no doubt 43300 will be written off, but the point is that two different Roscos own the HST fleet, and not all the components are the same. The LNER and XC and latterly the GC power cars have had more improvements made during their lives compared to the GWR and EMR fleets. It has been suggested that the ex LNER trains are going to move to the MML to replace the EMR fleet. There is obviously a reason for that and theoretically 43300 would have another three years service in front of it.

 

I am sure the Roscos will decide how to move forward with 43300 joining 43299 and 43313 on the "dead line".

[Nimbus]

I'm intrigued that the couplers on the Hitachi train did not manage to hold the adjacent vehicle ends in alignment in a supposed low speed situation. ISTR this was one of the concerns hastening the withdrawal of BR Mk1 stock. 

 

The Nim.

[russ p]

22 minutes ago, Nimbus said:

I'm intrigued that the couplers on the Hitachi train did not manage to hold the adjacent vehicle ends in alignment in a supposed low speed situation. ISTR this was one of the concerns hastening the withdrawal of BR Mk1 stock. 

 

The Nim.

 

Scarey thing visit wouldn't happen on a pacer! 

[Oldddudders]

I am on the busy 15.00 Penzance - Padd, in coach K. There seem to be a lot of legit first class customers with reservations in Coach E, which a very polite train manager has told them this train doesn’t have. There are also a number stumping up £25 to travel in first. The TM is also coping well with additional stops at Lostwithiel, St Germans and Saltash, which the auto announcements blithely ignore. The preceding stopping service to Bristol was cancelled due to leaves on the line. 

 

As far as I can see, the reservation system - absent coach E no doubt apart - is working well. Yet incomers ignore vacant seats with green lights and sit in reserved seats that are patently not theirs. These are high-earners with pricey company laptops (MacBook Pro) in use, yet they can’t make sense of the three colours. Sigh. My seat is reserved from Exeter but I am off at NA. 

[Bomag]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

I am on the busy 15.00 Penzance - Padd, in coach K. There seem to be a lot of legit first class customers with reservations in Coach E, which a very polite train manager has told them this train doesn’t have. There are also a number stumping up £25 to travel in first. The TM is also coping well with additional stops at Lostwithiel, St Germans and Saltash, which the auto announcements blithely ignore. The preceding stopping service to Bristol was cancelled due to leaves on the line. 

 

As far as I can see, the reservation system - absent coach E no doubt apart - is working well. Yet incomers ignore vacant seats with green lights and sit in reserved seats that are patently not theirs. These are high-earners with pricey company laptops (MacBook Pro) in use, yet they can’t make sense of the three colours. Sigh. My seat is reserved from Exeter but I am off at NA. 

 

While they may be those that will sit anywhere, you seem to not have considered those with red green colour blindness. Traffic lights are much less of a problem as the order is more obvious; on the 800 it is much less easy to work out if the top or bottom lamp is lit.

[bimble]

23 minutes ago, Bomag said:

 

While they may be those that will sit anywhere, you seem to not have considered those with red green colour blindness. Traffic lights are much less of a problem as the order is more obvious; on the 800 it is much less easy to work out if the top or bottom lamp is lit.

Well, that might account for up to 8% of the gents, and 1% of the ladies...

[eastwestdivide]

It's not just red-green lights though - they're accompanied by words on a little screen along the lines of "Available" or "reserved from x to y"

as in this photo from LNER's page at https://www.lner.co.uk/the-east-coast-experience/the-east-coast-standard/electronic-seat-reservation/

 

[Bomag]

3 hours ago, eastwestdivide said:

It's not just red-green lights though - they're accompanied by words on a little screen along the lines of "Available" or "reserved from x to y"

as in this photo from LNER's page at https://www.lner.co.uk/the-east-coast-experience/the-east-coast-standard/electronic-seat-reservation/

 

 

Which is fine for those with 6/6 vision, slightly less so for those of us with non-perfect eyesight. The text x height needs to be about 60% larger to cover most 'acceptable' levels of vision.

 

I get this in my day job, mostly from 30 year olds with near perfect vision.

[royaloak]

10 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

I am on the busy 15.00 Penzance - Padd, in coach K. There seem to be a lot of legit first class customers with reservations in Coach E, which a very polite train manager has told them this train doesn’t have. There are also a number stumping up £25 to travel in first. The TM is also coping well with additional stops at Lostwithiel, St Germans and Saltash, which the auto announcements blithely ignore. The preceding stopping service to Bristol was cancelled due to leaves on the line. 

 

As far as I can see, the reservation system - absent coach E no doubt apart - is working well. Yet incomers ignore vacant seats with green lights and sit in reserved seats that are patently not theirs. These are high-earners with pricey company laptops (MacBook Pro) in use, yet they can’t make sense of the three colours. Sigh. My seat is reserved from Exeter but I am off at NA. 

The reason coach E was missing is because the train is formed of a 9 coach set instead of 2x5, reservations for E are in K when that happens.

 

Interestingly your train actually had 5 more seats that it would have had if it had been 2x5 sets.

[Oldddudders]

I guessed about the wrong formation. It was 802 101, I noticed when alighting.

 

Wrong formations were the bane of Control life when I was there 50 years ago. The dreaded Cig vice Big meant no breakfast for commuters, and HQ would be hammering the Division. 

[Indomitable026]

Dark blue one...

 

[talisman56]

On 18/11/2019 at 07:44, Oldddudders said:

I guessed about the wrong formation. It was 802 101, I noticed when alighting.

 

Wrong formations were the bane of Control life when I was there 50 years ago. The dreaded Cig vice Big meant no breakfast for commuters, and HQ would be hammering the Division. 

 

In the evening, the Cig vice Big also meant some commuters would be arriving at their destination sober...

[talisman56]

2 minutes ago, Indomitable026 said:

Dark blue one...

 

 

Ready for the application of 'wavy lines'?

 

[iands]

38 minutes ago, talisman56 said:

 

Ready for the application of 'wavy lines'?

 

802301 - the cause of my train (1O88) being replatformed! 

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, Indomitable026 said:

Dark blue one...

 

Dark blue and a black front...

not a hint of yellow..

[eastwestdivide]

3 hours ago, Indomitable026 said:

Dark blue one...

 

for (First) Hull Trains I believe, hence the pink doors?

[Gwiwer]

Bring back yellow.  A plain black front end looks dreadful even if the illumination arrangements no longer require a bowl of custard.  Of note the new SWR class 701 units which comply with the no-yellow lighting do actually have yellow on the ends.  

 

Pink doors.  Well it is First Group corporate style.  Even if most of their operations now are anything but corporate in style.  

 

And on the dreaded "Cig vice Big" it was bad enough to have a misformed train.  The Big should have been the middle unit of three in a 12-car train.  Sometimes it led or trailed meaning the hapless commuters would have as much as an 11-car trek for their G&T / Cheese-on-toast ("With Worcester Sauce, Sir?") and sometimes got caught out at their short-platform destinations having dozed in the misplaced buffet for a little too long.  Bep vice Big was a rare treat on the Brighton line though the norm on the Mid-Sussex where Bigs were uncommon.  

 

What would we give now for the comfort of those seats, the welcome of a regular steward and the satisfying three clunks of a slam-door closing?  An 800 with ironing boards, a catering trolley at best (and often not even that) plus the clinical interior of the things .....

 

..... friends from Lostwithiel who use the train typically two or three times a year have just had their first experience of an 802 to London and back.  Their verdict?  Never ever again.  They stood for four hours rather than endure back pain and numb legs from the seating.  There was no catering.  Their booked seats were not available because the reservations were not loaded though alternatives were available.  On the return they took up my suggestion of the SWR route from Waterloo to Exeter and Mini-HST from there.  Longer but comfortable.  And the advertised trolley service came through several times.  

[Siberian Snooper]

I have just returned from another trip to London and the ride wasn't to bad and for a change my back didn't suffer to much.  I had reserved facing window seats and I was given seat 69 in coach C, the up journey was a 9 coach unit and the down was 2 x 5s, they were  both correctly formed, so are the 2 different types numbered differently?