Class 800 - Updates

[Zomboid]

With just one battery pack that's all it could really do, but it'll provide information about how the batteries behave for further applications.

 

It'll probably result in less diesel being burned, which is a good thing whichever way you slice it.

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

Hope they go further on the batteries than hybrid cars do, or they'll be a similar example of ecological window-dressing. 

 

The TV news report implied the battery traction would just be used to sweeten the atmosphere in stations.

 

John

 

I aren't sure on the geographical aspects of it but doesn't GWR have a few bits of diesel where they'd be essentially hopping between power?

[St. Simon]

1 hour ago, TomScrut said:

 

I aren't sure on the geographical aspects of it but doesn't GWR have a few bits of diesel where they'd be essentially hopping between power?

Not anymore, the last ‘gaps’ in electrification were plugged at the beginning of the year, so now there should only be a single switch between modes in a journey. 
 

The only hopping between modes is now down to a failure or degraded working / diversions.

 

Simon

[RJS1977]

I can think of a couple of remaining electrifcation gaps on the GWR network, but the 800s don't go that way.... ;-)

 

[TomScrut]

3 hours ago, St. Simon said:

Not anymore, the last ‘gaps’ in electrification were plugged at the beginning of the year, so now there should only be a single switch between modes in a journey. 
 

The only hopping between modes is now down to a failure or degraded working / diversions.

 

Simon

 

Thanks I thought I had read something somewhere about there being gaps but given I live in Yorkshire it is hardly somewhere I am familiar with!

[cravensdmufan]

Major disruption on UK rail network after 'cracks found on high-speed trains' | UK News | Sky News

 

Sorry folks can't seem to copy and paste link into here.  

Edited May 8, 2021 by cravensdmufan
Additional wording

[Oldddudders]

 

[Gwiwer]

GWR has a few services running.  At least one Paddington -Swansea has operated today.  Many sections are covered by alternative services with HSTs on offer between Penzance and Bristol for example.  LNER has advised all passengers to not travel.  

 

Information seems both scarce and patchy but it appears some - not all - units have been stopped for checks and some of those have been found to be affected.  Whether this turns into a fleet-wide "recall" or a single-batch or design flaw only time will tell.  

 

SWR reports that today's Salisbury - Exeter services have been heavily loaded though they are not accepting GWR tickets under mutual arrangements at this stage.

[cornish trains jez]

Plenty of LNER 91's and MK4 sets sitting around doing nothing which could be drafted back into service. No cracks on those trains - built properly that's why! 

 

 

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, Gwiwer said:

GWR has a few services running.  At least one Paddington -Swansea has operated today.  Many sections are covered by alternative services with HSTs on offer between Penzance and Bristol for example.  LNER has advised all passengers to not travel.  

 

Information seems both scarce and patchy but it appears some - not all - units have been stopped for checks and some of those have been found to be affected.  Whether this turns into a fleet-wide "recall" or a single-batch or design flaw only time will tell.  

 

SWR reports that today's Salisbury - Exeter services have been heavily loaded though they are not accepting GWR tickets under mutual arrangements at this stage.

That'll be fun - buses are replacing trains due to engineering Axminster-Exeter all weekend.

 

Probably the reason SWR aren't accepting GW tickets.

 

John

 

 

[Welly]

20 minutes ago, cornish trains jez said:

Plenty of LNER 91's and MK4 sets sitting around doing nothing which could be drafted back into service. No cracks on those trains - built properly that's why! 

I still remember when BR had to ground the entire fleet of 91/Mk4s to inspect all their wheels after a nasty train crash in Germany. Class 317 and 321 EMUs were used to cover the Leeds/York runs on the ECML!

[jamie92208]

5 minutes ago, Welly said:

I still remember when BR had to ground the entire fleet of 91/Mk4s to inspect all their wheels after a nasty train crash in Germany. Class 317 and 321 EMUs were used to cover the Leeds/York runs on the ECML!

There are an awful lotbof units sitting around, aren't the 365's in store.

 

Jamie

[Gwiwer]

Just seen a comment on the antisocial media suggesting that the 80x series have tested positive for cracks and must self-isolate.  

[phil-b259]

4 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

There are an awful lotbof units sitting around, aren't the 365's in store.

 

Jamie

 

There are - but as was pointed out on the other thread you can only make use of stored traction if (1) Drivers have traction knowledge (if they don't use it they lose just like route knowledge) and (2) Said traction is up to date maintenance / certification wise.

 

While both can be fixed that takes time even if the money is there to do it so they aren't the short term fix some may think.

[rodent279]

20 minutes ago, Welly said:

I still remember when BR had to ground the entire fleet of 91/Mk4s to inspect all their wheels after a nasty train crash in Germany. Class 317 and 321 EMUs were used to cover the Leeds/York runs on the ECML!

That, iirc, was because DB specified an inferior quality of steel for the tyres. It led to cracks, and eventually one shattered at speed. The resulting accident at Eschede brought down a bridge, which crushed some carriages, whilst the rest piled up into them.

Edited May 8, 2021 by rodent279

[caradoc]

Wasn't there also a derailment at Sandy in 1998 caused by a wheel defect on a Mark 4 coach, which resulted in the entire fleet being withdrawn ? Not sure whether this was additional to the incidents mentioned above or linked in some way. 

 

[iands]

2 hours ago, caradoc said:

Wasn't there also a derailment at Sandy in 1998 caused by a wheel defect on a Mark 4 coach, which resulted in the entire fleet being withdrawn ? Not sure whether this was additional to the incidents mentioned above or linked in some way. 

 

Around the same time (well, definitely during Railtrack days) on the southern part of the ECML, there was an "incident(s)" of someone placing ball bearings on the rail head (could have been at expansion joints and/or points) that seriously damaged the tyres of multiple trains/locos etc. Allegedly it was a disgruntled employee (or former employee). IIRC, Railtrack/BTP managed to narrow down the area where this was occurring and set up some covert CCTV cameras which resulted in the culprit being caught. The derailment at Sandy you mention could have been a result of the "incident" I have mentioned. Might also explain why there is no record of a report on The Railways Archive website - probably not something that Railtrack, or the railway industry in general, would want made public.

[melmerby]

I wonder whether the Class 395s have the same damper arrangement?

They are part of the same train family.

[Richard E]

17th June 1998 BBC report:

 

Quote

Rail services on the East Coast main line are slowly returning to normal after a snap decision to carry out safety checks following a 100mph accident.

 

Great North Eastern Railways withdrew its entire rolling stock of electric high speed trains after a derailment on Tuesday evening.

 

The accident was blamed on a cracked carriage wheel, prompting GNER to call in all its InterCity 225's for inspections. Around 2,000 wheels were checked using an ultrasonic technique.

 

An investigation has been launched into the derailment

 

A spokesman for GNER said all the trains had now been inspected and passed by its safety engineers.

Nine people suffered minor injuries when the last coach of a high speed train came off the rails at Sandy, in Bedfordshire.

 

Earlier this month 100 passengers died when a high speed train was derailed in Eschede, Germany. Authorities believe a broken wheel caused the crash and ordered the replacement of wheels on all 59 similar trains.

 

The order to carry out safety inspections plunged morning rail services on the east coast line into chaos.

 

A later BBC report on the Hatfield crash went on to say about the Sandy incident:

 

Quote

GNER said there was a derailment two years ago involving the same type of rolling stock as Tuesday's crash.

 

The incident on 16 June, 1998, at Sandy, Bedfordshire, involved GNER's nine-coach 1730 BST King's Cross-to-Edinburgh service.

 

The company removed all Mark 4 coaches from service for wheel checks after discussions with Railtrack and the HSE.

 

Carriages toppled onto their sides

 

Investigations found metal fatigue in the wheels of the rolling stock.

 

A maintenance firm was fined £175,000 in July this year as a result of that incident.

 

Richard Hope, a spokesman for the Railway Gazette, said the previous crash had similarities to Tuesday's incident.

 

"My mind clearly goes back to the accident two years ago," he said.

 

"It was the same type of train and was an accident rather similar in many ways, as the carriages derailed in the middle of the train rather than front of the train.

 

"In that case a wheel had broken and a fragment of the wheel went up through the floor of the carriage.

 

"Mechanical failure on the train, on balance, is the most likely cause of this accident at the moment, but we need a lot more information."

 

[rodent279]

Sounds to me like GNER, in the aftermath of Eschede, did due diligence and carried out checks on all its wheels, probably because if they hadn't, they would have come under pressure to do so anyway.

[Dunsignalling]

8 hours ago, melmerby said:

I wonder whether the Class 395s have the same damper arrangement?

They are part of the same train family.

From posts on the other 800 thread, it appears they do.

[Michael Hodgson]

17 hours ago, iands said:

Around the same time (well, definitely during Railtrack days) on the southern part of the ECML, there was an "incident(s)" of someone placing ball bearings on the rail head (could have been at expansion joints and/or points) that seriously damaged the tyres of multiple trains/locos etc. 

I confess to putting a pre-decimal halfpenny on the rail at an occupation crossing near Barmouth just before the CCE arrived when I was about six - the Dukedog coped with that just fine.

[seraphim]

The Sandy accident was caused by poor engineering practices at the wheelset overhauler.

 

Enschede was cause by the use of resilient wheels without the maintenance surveillance that such wheels require.

 

No real link between them.

[caradoc]

On a flippant note..... Were/are there any plans to name any of the 80x fleet after rivers ? I'm thinking of the Highland Railway's River class, deemed too heavy for their own railway, and the Southern Railway's River class tanks, which had to be rebuilt as tender locos after derailments.....

 

[APOLLO]

8 minutes ago, caradoc said:

On a flippant note..... Were/are there any plans to name any of the 80x fleet after rivers ? I'm thinking of the Highland Railway's River class, deemed too heavy for their own railway, and the Southern Railway's River class tanks, which had to be rebuilt as tender locos after derailments.....

 

 

Or the LNWR "Problem" class !!!

 

Some suggestions

 

Weldfail

Yawloose

Dampergone

MIG TIG and Crackit

 

Brit15