Class 800 - Updates

[Coryton]

Apparently GWR specified the provision of the necessary slots for paper reservation tickets.  Maybe they'd been forewarned about the antics the TMS couldn't manage.   However I would have hoped that by now something would have been done to get the TMS issues sorted - maybe someone isn't happy to pay for software upgrades.

 

 

Seems like a sensible move to me.

 

The electronic reservation system might fail. It's a pretty cheap way of providing for a back-up if it does.

 

I would have thought it would be a sensible thing to do no matter what your view was the reliability of the electronic system.

 

It does seem a bit disappointing if things haven't settled down yet, though.

[dibber25]

Well, I went for my ride today and I really like them. They are pretty quiet, both inside and out, especially when compared to a 165 or one of those dreadful Voyagers standing at the platform in Oxford. My return run was an HST so I had a good opportunity to compare the two. 

Seats: They certainly ARE hard, but I didn't find them uncomfortable. Seat shape is a very personal thing and they evidently suit my shape. I though the HST seats were also pretty hard but they are more shaped than the 800 seats. I'd rate them both about the same and WAY better than the awful Mk4s that we have here on the ECML. The the Mk4s are softer but you sink through to the plywood/plastic after a few minutes.

The electronic seat reservations were certainly illuminated but if they were correct, the passenger for the seat I occupied was a 'no show'. On the HST coming back, the very charming Train Manager was coming through putting in reservation tickets for the return trip from Worcester. She was complaining that lots of folk who reserve a seat don't occupy the correct one, they just sit in any reserved seat. It was clearly her nightmare.

What is good is that a 5-car IET fits the intermediate station platforms, except at Handborough (only 2 cars). On the HST at every stop except Moreton-in-M, she had to ask people to move to the rear cars as only the rear 5 would be in the platform. (The HST was running reversed). 

I look forward to riding an IET under the wires before too long. (CJL)

[dibber25]

Three shots from today. The unit was 005. Wasn't that the one which 'watered' passengers on the inaugural run? If so, it was nice and dry inside today. (CJL)

[Coryton]

Though assuming it works properly eventually, the red/orange/green scheme will be a big step forward.

 

And (in my view) electronic reservations should never have been introduced without something like this (and I've been thinking this since the Voyagers came in).

 

Much has been said about how much better private industry is at procuring trains than the DfT, but in this case I'd say the 800s win hands down.

[dibber25]

And (in my view) electronic reservations should never have been introduced without something like this (and I've been thinking this since the Voyagers came in).

 

Much has been said about how much better private industry is at procuring trains than the DfT, but in this case I'd say the 800s win hands down.

 

Given that the Pendolino and Voyager were both built to Virgin's spec and the Class 800 to the DfT's spec, I have to say that I think the much-maligned DfT got it nearer to right.

Standing at Oxford this afternoon you needed ear defenders when the Voyagers and 165/166 units were ticking over. By comparison the 800s are very quiet indeed. There have obviously been major advances in engine silencing in the interim.  (CJL)

[Coryton]

Given that the Pendolino and Voyager were both built to Virgin's spec and the Class 800 to the DfT's spec, I have to say that I think the much-maligned DfT got it nearer to right.

Standing at Oxford this afternoon you needed ear defenders when the Voyagers and 165/166 units were ticking over. By comparison the 800s are very quiet indeed. There have obviously been major advances in engine silencing in the interim.  (CJL)

 

Maybe.

 

Or maybe the 800s are just built differently....perhaps one of the things that pushed the price up so much?

[RJS1977]

It's an attachment point for the "Do not Move" sign for when they have broken down.

 

Geoff Endacott

 

"Do not Move" signs aren't just used when a train has broken down. When an HST arrives at Swansea the power car nearest the buffers gains a "Do not Move" sign until various servicing tasks have been carried out (not quite sure what but probably things like topping up water tanks etc).

[The Stationmaster]

Things were well awry on the South Wales route today - probably a consequence of the earlier signal failure.  Despite ambling to Parkway with bags of time allowed to catch the 15.03 to Reading I easily got aboard the set which had arrived while I was at the bottom of the station approach - probably because it managed to be at a stand for nearly 6 minutes.  Finally leaving at 14.54 what we had assumed might be the 14.33 was actually the 14.03 and we had the interesting experience of charging through Swindon 'Main Line' and not making the other booked stop at Didcot either.  Presumably the substantial overtime at Parkway was necessary in order to remove Swindon and Didcot passengers and cutting out the stops undoubtedly saved time.  Amusingly Real Time Trains shows the train as calling at Didcot which I didn't notice it doing but it no doubt explains why both my former colleague and I were suitably convinced that the pantographs had been raised in the vicinity of Didcot station

 

Generally a good ride with only one instance of pitter-pattering vibration (after some pointwork), seats perfectly comfortable, onboard service impeccable (as it had been on the Down journey on an HST).

 

 

I also learnt a bit about the 'staff shortages' which are causing cancellations and are in part due to a shortage of Guards as quite a number have been accepted for promotion to Driver and are in training.

[jonny777]

I had a great demonstration of the acceleration of a pair of 800s trying to regain time. We were late leaving Paddington and the driver seemed determined to make up time. 

 

Paddington (start) to Didcot (pass) is normally 41-42 minutes, including a stop at Reading. 

 

We did it in 36 minutes, which must be the fastest I have ever done that stretch. 

[jonny777]

I have now travelled in Mk3 Mk4 and 800 carriages (standard class) over the last number of days; and my personal opinion is that of the three, Mk4 seats are the most comfortable. 

 

I will add that I have a slight spinal problem (caused by falling off a ladder many years ago - my fault) and find it difficult to sit for long periods in the same position. 

 

I managed two and a half hours in a Mk4 seat with very little discomfort. 

 

Mk3s are not too bad, but after two hours I feel the need to stand up and walk around just to change position. 

 

The seats on the 800s to/from Paddington are ok for just over an hour, but after 90 minutes sitting still becomes quite painful for me. I think it is because there is not as much 'give' in them. Either that, or the angle between the actual seat and the seat back is slightly less forgiving on the base of the spine.

 

I don't know if all the IET units are having the same style/pitch of seating installed; but if so, I may have to think twice about travelling long distances in them.  

[dibber25]

I have now travelled in Mk3 Mk4 and 800 carriages (standard class) over the last number of days; and my personal opinion is that of the three, Mk4 seats are the most comfortable. 

 

I will add that I have a slight spinal problem (caused by falling off a ladder many years ago - my fault) and find it difficult to sit for long periods in the same position. 

 

I managed two and a half hours in a Mk4 seat with very little discomfort. 

 

Mk3s are not too bad, but after two hours I feel the need to stand up and walk around just to change position. 

 

The seats on the 800s to/from Paddington are ok for just over an hour, but after 90 minutes sitting still becomes quite painful for me. I think it is because there is not as much 'give' in them. Either that, or the angle between the actual seat and the seat back is slightly less forgiving on the base of the spine.

 

I don't know if all the IET units are having the same style/pitch of seating installed; but if so, I may have to think twice about travelling long distances in them.  

 

Just goes to show how personal seating comfort is. I find the Mk4 by far the least comfortable. (CJL)

[The Stationmaster]

Just goes to show how personal seating comfort is. I find the Mk4 by far the least comfortable. (CJL)

 

Absolutely agree with CJL on that.  I find a London - York trip is a Mk 4 is more than enough for me and I was quite happy when my need to do that regularly (c.monthly) ceased back in 1994.  

 

I had around an hour each way yesterday split between HST outbound and Class 800 return and overall I would rate the Class 800 seats a bit above the high backed HST seats we nowadays get on 'GWR' trains.  Interestingly the chap I travelled with on both trains commented that he hadn't originally liked the Class 800 seating but was finding it a lot more comfortable on yesterday's journey.

[Coryton]

Absolutely agree with CJL on that.  I find a London - York trip is a Mk 4 is more than enough for me and I was quite happy when my need to do that regularly (c.monthly) ceased back in 1994.  

 

I had around an hour each way yesterday split between HST outbound and Class 800 return and overall I would rate the Class 800 seats a bit above the high backed HST seats we nowadays get on 'GWR' trains.  Interestingly the chap I travelled with on both trains commented that he hadn't originally liked the Class 800 seating but was finding it a lot more comfortable on yesterday's journey.

 

When I used to travel long distances weekly on Mk 3's and Mk 4's, the Mk3's won hands down on comfort.

 

Mind you, that might have been something to do with the fact that on the Mk 4's I had to sit up all the way, and on the Mk 3's I had a comfortable bed.

 

Curiously, by booking as far ahead as possible the sleeper journey was also cheaper than the day trip. I don't think that's the case now.

[St. Simon]

Just seen an IET leaving Cardiff for Paddington.

 

Unfortunately the destination displays said it was heading for Swansea, next stop Bridgend.

 

I know that getting these things to work properly can be surprisingly hard, but perhaps they need some way of turning them off when they misbehave. A blank screen is surely better than one giving the wrong information.

 

Looked as if there were reservation tickets out - don't know if they were in addition to the electronic system or if that had also failed (seems quite likely). Perhaps they also need some backup destination stickers to put in the windows HST-style for when the electronic displays fail. 

 

First class was in the middle - shame the screens in the station were saying first class at the front.

 

I haven't been paying attention recently but this suggests that they are still unable or unwilling to marshal the trains correctly (i.e. in the way their posters say they will be). Possibly there are contractual issues there but I would have thought that the right thing to do (which presumably wouldn't need to get lawyers involved) would be to put practicality over appearance and put some nice thick yellow cantrail lines over first class, and some clear indicator on the front ends showing which is the first class end.

 

Hi,

 

The formation of trains is being sorted between GWR and Hitachi as are all the TMS problems.

 

Unfortunatly, the way the TMS is configured and is used by both GWR and Hitachi means that simply switching off the screens isn't that much of an option, but they have got a work around I believe.

 

Simon

[royaloak]

Hi,

 

The formation of trains is being sorted between GWR and Hitachi as are all the TMS problems.

 

Unfortunatly, the way the TMS is configured and is used by both GWR and Hitachi means that simply switching off the screens isn't that much of an option, but they have got a work around I believe.

 

Simon

Black and yellow tape perchance?

[St. Simon]

Black and yellow tape perchance?

 

It's a bit more sophisticated.

 

Simon

[Geoff Endacott]

It's a bit more sophisticated.

 

Simon

 

Black, yellow and white tape then.

 

Geoff Endacott

[JeffP]

Trained wasps on each seat?

[The Stationmaster]

Hi,

 

The formation of trains is being sorted between GWR and Hitachi as are all the TMS problems.

 

Unfortunatly, the way the TMS is configured and is used by both GWR and Hitachi means that simply switching off the screens isn't that much of an option, but they have got a work around I believe.

 

Simon

 

The screens were not working on the train I travelled up from Parkway on on Monday (well not in the trailing set anyway) 

[exet1095]

I’m on my first IET journey, having decided to try out the new trains (both types) between Didcot and Paddington. Both are fast, new and shiny, with seats less comfortable than those sideways-facing horrors in the back of a Hercules... The PA voice on the Electrostar is awful too, with a maddening tendency to mispronounce names, but then Charlotte Green comes on to tell you which carriage you’re in!

 

Even though I saw a 66 shunting Captain Baxter and Thomas at Didcot, I’m going back to Oxford on a comfortable Chiltern train tonight!

Edited March 14, 2018 by exet1095

[RJS1977]

When I used to travel long distances weekly on Mk 3's and Mk 4's, the Mk3's won hands down on comfort.

 

Mind you, that might have been something to do with the fact that on the Mk 4's I had to sit up all the way, and on the Mk 3's I had a comfortable bed.

 

Curiously, by booking as far ahead as possible the sleeper journey was also cheaper than the day trip. I don't think that's the case now.

 

I don't know about on the East Coast, but when I went to Glasgow in January, the sleeper was cheaper than the day fare - certainly for the time I needed to travel.

[surfsup]

Linking back to the TMS issues for a moment, something I have noticed recently are the side screens either reseting themselves after the changeover from Electric to Diesel or just not working all together. E.g a pair I saw leaving Reading yesterday left with these screens reading: 00:00 TAUNTON. On one unit and absolutely nothing on the other.  

 

Is there a power issue west of Reading again, or is there an issue with the units themselves? Over the past few weeks there's been a noticeable increase in the amount of units arriving into Reading, switching onto Diesel then heading off westwards. 

[4630]

Linking back to the TMS issues for a moment, something I have noticed recently are the side screens either reseting themselves after the changeover from Electric to Diesel or just not working all together. E.g a pair I saw leaving Reading yesterday left with these screens reading: 00:00 TAUNTON. On one unit and absolutely nothing on the other.  

 

Is there a power issue west of Reading again, or is there an issue with the units themselves?. 

 

 

I'm left wondering what all those months of testing of the Class 800s actually achieved?

 

I first photographed 800001 at Peterborough on the 9th June 2015 during the very early stages of overnight testing.  Almost three years ago!

 

Testing was still underway when I photographed the same unit over a year later at Doncaster on 23rd June 2016.

 

I know these units are complicated and I know that their ongoing development has been punctuated by DfT contract variations (numerous variations at that) over the original specification.  But nonetheless, IMHO these issues really don't put that much vaunted Japanese* design, engineering, manufacturing and quality control in particularly good light.  For the avoidance of doubt, I've no doubt that GWR and Network Rail management aren't entirely blameless in all this either.

 

I'd like to think, in view of the reported high leasing cost of the the Class 800s, that suitably robust conversations are taking place across all the stakeholders in this ongoing farce.  But then again I'm probably being naive.  After all it's only yours and my hard earned tax pounds that are being poured into this.   

 

* In this context I mean Hitachi's sites in Japan and in Newton Aycliffe.

[jim.snowdon]

Modern trains may be complex, sometimes seemingly needlessly so, but just how much of an 8xx unit's design is descended directly from the Class 395. You would have thought (hoped?) that Hitachi would have kept as much as practicable standard with, or directly derived from, the 395 design to save the effort involved in designing and testing new systems, as well as building on known reliability performance.

 

Or did they have to give in to the deplorable British habit of wanting something bespoke rather than the manufacturer's standard designs?

 

Jim

[jonny777]

Linking back to the TMS issues for a moment, something I have noticed recently are the side screens either reseting themselves after the changeover from Electric to Diesel or just not working all together. E.g a pair I saw leaving Reading yesterday left with these screens reading: 00:00 TAUNTON. On one unit and absolutely nothing on the other.  

 

Is there a power issue west of Reading again, or is there an issue with the units themselves? Over the past few weeks there's been a noticeable increase in the amount of units arriving into Reading, switching onto Diesel then heading off westwards. 

 

 

On the trains I have travelled on to/from Bristol, it was because they were not due to stop at Didcot. 

 

Has the Didcot stop been cut out of some longer service schedules because of the increase in 387 services from there?