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Class 800 - Updates


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Travelled today on a Worcester-Paddington service formed of a single Class 800. At both Oxford and Reading the platform indicators showed First Class at the front; Guess where the First Class really was. In an age when mass instant communication has never been easier, how can it be so difficult to get something so simple right ? And is no-one, either on the train or on a station, able to see that it is wrongly shown and do something about it ?

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Roll out the German system, you can tell what each vehicle is from a chart on the platform plus they advise you where each vehicle will be. In India they are the same for the long distance train's with about 26 coaches. Only once has a German train arrived wrong way around but they were aware and announced it as being so.

 

With so many of the station announcements being done from central location they can easily change it for other stations en route. However signallers are sat these days in office without seeing a train so they are not likely to know which way round a train set is!

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Saw a 2x5 car formation on the UpMain east of Taplow yesterday running on diesel power, but a 2x5 at Tilehurst East Jcn this morning on the Down Main with the pans up.

 

And noting Caradoc's comment there is no reason whatsoever why a train the wrong way round can't be advised to Control by station staff - so simple it's remains a mystery to me why it isn't done.

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05.56 from Chippenham today is 5 car again, if they are short of units then there must be some consideration given tobl reverting a diagram back to HST so peak services can run as 10 cars. This train will be rammed from Didcot..

 

They keep sending 800s to the south west on training runs to prepare for the 802s which they haven't yet got.

 

Geoff Endacott

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And noting Caradoc's comment there is no reason whatsoever why a train the wrong way round can't be advised to Control by station staff - so simple it's remains a mystery to me why it isn't done.

 

It isn't done because they don't care. If they did someone would have sorted it by now.

 

There is a lot to be said for having pride in a job and that's what seems to be lacking.

 

Geoff Endacott

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It isn't done because they don't care. If they did someone would have sorted it by now.

 

There is a lot to be said for having pride in a job and that's what seems to be lacking.

 

Geoff Endacott

 

Indeed; Such a lack of attention to detail (and for example the broken, since April, door at Oxford station) symbolise to me the 'crumbling edge of quality' first mentioned by Peter Parker many years ago.

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It isn't done because they don't care. If they did someone would have sorted it by now.

 

There is a lot to be said for having pride in a job and that's what seems to be lacking.

 

Some years ago I complained to FGW (as was then) about the trains from Cardiff to London not being announced as reverse formation when they should have been.

 

The answer was that it wasn't their fault as they weren't being informed by the previous station.

 

However this wasn't a very convincing argument as the trains I was referring to started in Cardiff, and would have arrived from London in that state.

 

(Then there's the fact that there are signs telling you where to stand for each coach when a train is announced as being in reverse formation, except that I've never heard them call it that - they just say first class at the rear).

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Indeed; Such a lack of attention to detail (and for example the broken, since April, door at Oxford station) symbolise to me the 'crumbling edge of quality' first mentioned by Peter Parker many years ago.

 

I couldn't believe the awful state of Oxford station when I was there a few weeks back. Considering the high number of overseas visitors to the city, one would think there might be some pride in making the station look decent, even if it is too small for the amount of traffic. (CJL)

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I couldn't believe the awful state of Oxford station when I was there a few weeks back. Considering the high number of overseas visitors to the city, one would think there might be some pride in making the station look decent, even if it is too small for the amount of traffic. (CJL)

I wouldn't be surprised if no money has been spent on station upkeep, with the long pending total redevelopment saga rumbling on.

Now that the city council and Network Rail have more or less agreed on funding, local residents are fighting the rebuild because it will make the station "too big" !

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Just seen the following quote, apparently from "the government": (http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/whitehall-dismisses-plans-for-further-rail-devolution-to-wales):

 

"“The government policy is that rolling stock procurement should, in most cases, be market-led because competition delivers value for money as it gives bidders more choice around the fleet that they wish to operate.”

 

Hmmmm.

 

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Just seen the following quote, apparently from "the government": (http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/whitehall-dismisses-plans-for-further-rail-devolution-to-wales):

 

"“The government policy is that rolling stock procurement should, in most cases, be market-led because competition delivers value for money as it gives bidders more choice around the fleet that they wish to operate.”

 

Hmmmm.

 

And the frightening thing is that I suspect they probably believe that whilst simultaneously micromanaging franchises and rolling stock fleets. There is no deception as effective as self deception if you believe it.

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It isn't done because they don't care. If they did someone would have sorted it by now.

 

There is a lot to be said for having pride in a job and that's what seems to be lacking.

 

Geoff Endacott

Thank you for reminding me why I stopped visiting this forum, so glad you know that none of us care about the passengers or getting the job done.

 

I will remember that next time resources ring me at 19:00 on Saturday night asking me if I want to work my day off on Sunday starting at 07:00 because somebody has gone sick at a depot 62 miles away and they cant cover it, or ask me if I am willing to start 3 and a half hours earlier than my official start time because they cant cover the job at my depot, or finish 3 and and half hours late because somebody tried to nick the signalling cables!

 

All that since last Saturday, so a grand total of 5 days, yeah I really dont care do I!  :butcher:

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I did not say that none of you care. It is the manager responsible who doesn't seem to care. Somebody must be in charge of the announcements and that's the person who needs to ensure they are correct.

 

I have every sympathy with the staff at the sharp end. It can't be much fun working on the platform when the announcements and displays say a train is marshalled one way and it turns up the wrong way round. It must be particularly frustrating when it happens over and over again, day after day after day.

 

Of course you and your fellow drivers care, but do the managers who give you such short notice of a shift change care enough about you?

 

Geoff Endacott

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Of course you and your fellow drivers care, but do the managers who give you such short notice of a shift change care enough about you?

 

Geoff Endacott

TBH our line Mangers are as fed up with it we are, we have 9 drivers off learning the IETs at the moment (3 courses of 3, 1 starting each week so as the first lot start week 2 another group of 3 start week one etc) meaning the rest of us have to cover their shifts as well as our own, its the resources and rostering departments that I sympathise with, they are working their <woopsies> off trying to cover all the turns with the few spare staff available, they have got the hardest, most stressful  job.

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In all my time on the railway, I've never met anyone in a position of any responsibility who didn't care. I've met some absolute chumps, and some who didn't know what they were doing and no doubt there are a minority of people out there who aren't bothered, but everyone I've had dealings with has been doing their best to deliver their part of the incredibly complicated process that is making trains run from place to place at their allotted times.

Most people in the rail industry, including middle and senior management would be entitled to take offense at being accused of not caring.

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It strikes me that the whole thing hasn't been very well organised and responsibility for that must rest at the very top.

 

Geoff Endacott

Nothing to do with the first IETs being delivered late (you cant train the crews if you havent got any trains can you) and then being delivered faster than GWR could get the crews trained up on them bearing in mind there are normally very few staff 'spare' because numbers are kept low so when you take a lot of train crew off for training it leaves you very short of crew to run the normal trains, and that isnt GWRs fault is it.

 

Of course its easier just to look at the immediate problems (lack of train crew and lack of trains) and blame GWR rather than look at the reasons why there is a lack of train crew wbich is GWR are having to play catch up because of Hitachi delivering the trains late, and lack of trains because the HSTs are having to leave on time as ScotRail wouldnt allow GWR to hold onto a few sets meaning we are short of trains as well because of the late delivery of the 800s

Edited by royaloak
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I am now genuinely puzzled. If everyone involved with the GWML electrification and the introduction of the Class 800s cares so much, what has gone wrong?

 

Geoff Endacott

The DaFT announced this massive electrification without checking if there were enough qualified engineers to actually carry out the work, there wasnt hence the slow start and budget overruns, the contract drawn up with Hitachi was a complete pile of poo thanks to DaFT not having a clue what they were ordering and then changing things (at great expense).

 

Fayling then cancelled the electrification just as NR were getting on top of the delays and pulling back the cost over-runs, this necessitated more expensive changes to the class 800 order (having to spend £300 million over the life of the 800 contract to save £187 milion on the electrification is a bit silly in my books).

 

Hitachi delivered the first 800s late meaning GWR couldnt train their crews on them meaning there were not enough crew available when the 800s went into service (at DaFTs insistence).

 

Scot Rail insisted they received their HSTs as scheduled meaning more HSTS went off lease than there were IETs available to replace them.

 

Hitachi then ramped up the deliveries but GWR couldnt catch up with the training because they were still trying to run the timetabled services so there werent enough 'spare' crews available to train up so something had to give.

 

Will that do for starters?

Edited by royaloak
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Can't disagree with anything you say royaloak, but I would add that Scotrail insisted on receiving their HSTs because they desperately need them ! They are already short of stock after losing Class 170 sets to a TOC in the north of England, whose name is a dirty word just now, but do not yet have the Class 385 EMUs in service to replace them, and a lot of staff training on, and modification to, the HSTs is required.

 

I also don't doubt that staff do care about their job, but I would still have to ask why, from Worcester to Reading, no-one noticed that the formation of a train was advertised back to front, or if they did notice was able to do anything about it. Maybe given all the other issues affecting GWR at the moment this kind of thing just gets missed or forgotten ? 

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Had a ride on an IET on Tues, Bath-BTM. Not my first ride, but first with a bike. First impressions are it's very difficult to find the bike accommodation, if there is any. I just parked it in the vestibule, which worked ok as the train was far from full.
Overall, I like them. The seats aren't great, but no worse than the ones FGW put in the refurbished Mk3's, and the ones in the Voyager I had up the hill to Parkway weren't significantly softer or more comfortable. The colours inside are a bit bland, but the carriage seems spacious enough, and quiet, in fact engine noise was virtually absent. I'd rather spend a couple of hours on an IET than a Voyager.
As for performance, well on diesel between Bath & BTM, I don't honestly think it was much different to an HST. What it'll be like over the South Devon hills I don't know, and how well they perform on diesel on the high speed stretches I don't know either.
I'd say 8/10. Not quite as good as a Mk3-but let's face it, the Mk3 set the bar pretty high. I'd say they are better than the MK4 too, which I always felt were a bit of a let down compared to a Mk3.

 

800032 BTM 20180605 112109

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Edited by rodent279
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I had a couple of hours on an 800 yesterday, and overall I'm still pretty impressed. The isolation of the engine noise and vibration is impressive - they're not completely undetectable, but not in any way obtrusive.

The yellow fronts are redundant though, the headlights make it look like the sun is approaching the platform, and there's no way anyone would want to look towards an approaching one once it's within about 150 million km. How on earth do drivers cope with such ridiculously bright lights on the front of oncoming trains?

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Wasn’t content with just one lot of photos today. Headed up to a spot I know near Cornwood where I got these photos. Video to follow later.

 

1107 Penzance to Exeter st David’s.

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I had a couple of hours on an 800 yesterday, and overall I'm still pretty impressed. The isolation of the engine noise and vibration is impressive - they're not completely undetectable, but not in any way obtrusive.

The yellow fronts are redundant though, the headlights make it look like the sun is approaching the platform, and there's no way anyone would want to look towards an approaching one once it's within about 150 million km. How on earth do drivers cope with such ridiculously bright lights on the front of oncoming trains?

 

I can hear the engines when the train is accelerating, but the two times I've been on one when it changed from electric to diesel power I've failed to tell when it happened.

 

I haven't been aware of the headlights being particularly over-bright. I wonder if they've turned up the power?

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