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So are you saying that the advantage of having the pantograph up on the leading vehicle is that the driver is more likely to be aware if it's taken the wires down?

 

I'd never thought of that but it makes sense.

 

Perhaps this is less applicable to a Pendolino since the pantographs are on intermediate vehicles.

 

Basically, yes, as when the wires go out of tension you're likely to see them start moving irregularly, or hear something going on, although fortunately, it's not something I've actually experienced.

I believe the actual instructions allow for a single pan being up on one of the first two or three vehicles, hence EMUs (up to 4 car) tend to have it in the centre. A bit vague there as in our case it's always on the 1st or 11th vehicle anyway.

So it's basically;

Cl.91 leading; 4 Reset attempts / Pan Down / carry on coasting to a suitable location (station or somewhere you're not blocking the line)

DVT leading;  1 Reset attempt / Pan Down / Stop / examine

Edited by Ken.W
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So are you saying that the advantage of having the pantograph up on the leading vehicle is that the driver is more likely to be aware if it's taken the wires down?

 

I'd never thought of that but it makes sense.

 

Perhaps this is less applicable to a Pendolino since the pantographs are on intermediate vehicles.

IIRC when there was the trial with a 2nd pantograph on class 91's someone said it was better to have the pantograph at the rear of the train so that the driver could drop the pan if he saw something wrong with the OLE ahead, to try and avoid it getting entangled with broken wires.

 

Jamie

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I doubt that it is actually pollen, which is quite fine, but a highly likely candidate is the fluffy airborne seeds that are floating around at the moment. They're a problem I ran into on the Docklands trains back in the 1990s. The traction equipment used centrifugal filters (the name swirly-flow comes to mind) and whilst these were OK for most things, the fluffy seeds were too big to escape and just ended up clogging the filters. There wasn't a cure other than pulling the units in more frequently just to clear the stuff out of the filter banks.

Jim

Pollen in Docklands.. ? No wonder you had to pull it out, anything growing there needs to be genetically strong.
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I think the loco chosen for that experiment was 91114.

Yes, that's right...

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/131666-class-91-photos/page-2#ipboard_body

post # 29

 

Posts # 20 & 22 in that thread illustrate my point of a second pan being of little use in event of a dewirement... neither of them are going anywhere without fitter's attention anyway!

 

Also, in the case of 91114, the duplex pan had an interlock to prevent both being raised at the same time, so both had to be down and locked before either could be raised. So with damage to one, you weren't gonna get the other up anyway!

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Had a day out in South Wales today, the 9 car 800/3s look a lot smarter than the vinyled 800/0s. I expect this difference to get more noticeable as the vinyls age further

Also the lack of white panel joins everywhere and around the doors helps the smarter look on the 800/3s

 

Jo

Edited by Steadfast
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This sign went up at Bath Spa on yesterday along with platform coach letter signs. As it is on the stairs, its not really the best place to stand to get a photo, but I hope that the smallest font is legible.

post-5204-0-13598500-1531513727_thumb.jpg

Am I correct in thinking that the London > Bristol via Bath IETs will be 2x5 car (with the option to split at Bristol for Weston, Taunton etc) while the new "express" London > Bristol via Parkway will be 9 car? Certainly the signage suggests Bath will usually be 2x5. 

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I was sat in one of the seats with no view the other day (usual 17:00 scramble for seats) Adrian and was surprised how little window there was but didn't bother me as with the recent sun it was actually helpful as I could see my laptop screen better. As the train journey is a continuation of my working day, I never bother looking out of the window and rely on station announcements and jolts from thing like Wooton Bassett junction to work out where we are.

 

I do a fair bit of a travel staring at a laptop. 

 

I still like a good bit of window so that I can enjoy the countryside as well.

Edited by Coryton
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This sign went up at Bath Spa on yesterday along with platform coach letter signs. As it is on the stairs, its not really the best place to stand to get a photo, but I hope that the smallest font is legible.

attachicon.gif025b.jpg

Am I correct in thinking that the London > Bristol via Bath IETs will be 2x5 car (with the option to split at Bristol for Weston, Taunton etc) while the new "express" London > Bristol via Parkway will be 9 car? Certainly the signage suggests Bath will usually be 2x5.

 

That's a really good idea - I caught a 2x5 Bristol>Lindon the other week and none of the staff at Bristol knew which end our coach would be, and if you're in the wrong unit you can't walk through to your seat...

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Set 800026 was interesting as it has different door steps. The step board is as usual, but the first bit actually inside appeared to be a flip-over ramp. I'm not sure what that was all about,

That would be the inner end of the driving coaches which are the wheelchair access points.

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That's a really good idea - I caught a 2x5 Bristol>Lindon the other week and none of the staff at Bristol knew which end our coach would be, and if you're in the wrong unit you can't walk through to your seat...

 

It's great idea if the trains are correctly formed with both sets are the right way round.  Unfortunately my observations suggest that Hitachi achieving that is something akin to whatever the Japanese equivalent of Nirvana happens to be.

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It's great idea if the trains are correctly formed with both sets are the right way round.  Unfortunately my observations suggest that Hitachi achieving that is something akin to whatever the Japanese equivalent of Nirvana happens to be.

 

From what I've seen, there is no consistency as to which of the two sets in a 10 coach train has coaches A to E and which has G to L.

 

A bit disappointing given that - unlike which end of each unit first class is - it's "just" a question of software setting.

 

Perhaps at GWR stations there is some indication of which way a train is likely to come in, but at Cardiff Central you don't seem to get anything at all.

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It's great idea if the trains are correctly formed with both sets are the right way round.  Unfortunately my observations suggest that Hitachi achieving that is something akin to whatever the Japanese equivalent of Nirvana happens to be.

It does have to be said that for a long time Great Western managed to keep the HST sets the right way round, with the first class at the London end. Wrong way round sets were a rarity, and usually the result of odd diversions for engineering works. The Western, at least in terms of its main line services, is essentially an out and back railway.

 

Jim

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For those interested, latest status of the GWR Fleets. Note that 001/002 are now both delivered with passenger interiors, yet neither accepted - 001 was briefly loaned for 5XXX driver training diagrams. 307 upwards have the new improved loop pile seat fabric (ie factory fitted as opposed to the rushed job at depot on 012). 802/0 diagrams have been moved back to 20/08. With electrification delays, 'IEP' timetable shall now be Dec 2019 at the earliest, until then, 800/0s & 802/0s shall run mainly as 2 x 5s (good excuse to buy Hornby's 003/010 as they both shall have the correct livery application for in passenger service, unlike 004).

 

GWR IET Status 15/07/18

 

800/0 

 

003-004 - Hitachi Test Units, various locations.

005-036 - GWR Accepted/Passenger Service. Total available units: 32 for a required 30 daily. (explains short formations/reversed formations)

001/002 - Agility Trains West Acceptance/Mileage, Bristol/North Pole.

 

800/3 

 

302 - Hitachi Test Unit, various locations.

303 - Awaiting acceptance 

304-308 - GWR Accepted. Total available units: 5 for a required 4 daily. (307+ new loop pile) (Next 2 Diagrams 23/07)

309 - Agility Trains West Acceptance/Mileage, Bristol/North Pole.

310/313 - Hitachi Commissioning, Doncaster.

314-316 - Hitachi Static Testing, Newton Aycliffe.

301/311-312/317-321 - Assembly, Newton Aycliffe.

 

802/0 

 

001-006 - GWR Accepted

 - Passenger Service (20/08)

007-014 - Hitachi Commissioning, North Pole (013/014 expected Tuesday)

015-022 - Hitachi, Pistoia, Italy. All built, under testing

 

802/1 

 

101 - Hitachi Test Unit, various locations.

 - GWR Accepted/Passenger Service.  

102-114 - Hitachi, Pistoia, Italy. (up to 107 built)

Edited by 159220
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Bit of 'blue sky thinking'* here, but I seem to recall one of the specification documents for the IETs requiring these units to be capable of operating in 'Loco-Hauled Mode' with a suitably fitted locomotive (presumably something akin to the 57/3s on the 390 drags).

Now if the 800s are as down on power or performance as it has been claimed here, could working in multi with a locomotive be an alternative option to paying for uprating the units and any contractual issues which may arise from this?

My thought being...

Take 1 redundant Class 43, fit compatible TMS equipment and conversion electronics. Obviously would require a compatible coupler on the van end and the blanking of the gangway. Couple to one end of the formation as a 'Booster'. 800s supply their own ETS so you don't have to worry about dealing with the infamous HST 3-phase supply.

Yes I know that is a far simplified version of what is required, but who'd have thought one day some knackered duffs would be re-engined and fitted to drag some EMUs in everyday service.

 

Then you would have a far more impressive HST replacement, maybe you could even fit one each end... Oh wait  :jester: .

 

* Other buzzwords available.

 

Just a thought,

Wild Boar Fell

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Bit of 'blue sky thinking'* here......

 

 

Yet, this has already been addressed on the Agility West fleet by uprating the engines upto 40 mph to full 900 kw (which slowly downgrades to 700 kw in the higher speed notches). The 0.7 m/s acceleration of the TTS is being met, under sustained diesel mode operation. No need for locos (which is historic from a very different plan for IEP units). Over on Agility East fleet, it has always been known/accepted by VTEC/LNER that the East fleet shall be slower under diesel than the HST, though with time savings under electric mode on most of the route the downgrade North of Edinburgh is outweighed by the gain south. Thus the Agility East fleet shall operate under diesel mode at the planned 700 kw output. I assure everyone, this has long been known and accepted by everyone involved in the industry, who shall be using the Agility East fleet. 

 

What I think passengers/user groups have failed to grasp over on the Great Western, is that most of the operational challenges faced by IET diagrams can be explained by the facts above. Hitachi have under-delivered to Agility Trains West, especially in the 800/0 fleet. Simply there are not enough units to cover maintenance (some of that being exceptional this summer with radiator management) and driver training runs. Once 001/002 are accepted into passenger service by GWR, things shall improve. Yet no significant improvement until 003/004 are re-formed with passenger interiors later this year once Hitachi releases them from testing. (Equally, I am sure everyone can gather, delivery of the 800/3 is well behind schedule due to NA assembly issues, and explains some of the operational challenges there).

 

A tangent to this would also be an interesting discussion, what does the loss of the New Tube for London for Hitachi and the teaming up with Bombardier to bid for the HS2 classic compatible stock mean for Newton Aycliffe. It means, especially if Brexit happens. Closure. If Hitachi do not receive orders for AT-200s in the (soon to be announced) South Eastern Railway franchise, the sustainability of an expensive assembly line in Co. Durham for a company adversed to Brexit means European assembly shall be focused at Pistoia. Where Hitachi have invested in significantly and brought over their IP in fission stir welding that NA lost out to. Pistoia is a true manufacturing factory for Hitachi Rail Europe as opposed to an assembly line in NA, with workers not capable of working to Japanese practices (thus equalling quality issues = delays to units). Considering the costs of NA were factored into the entire IEP PPI contract, it is effectively a paid up asset and thus can be dropped (especially as the Hitachi-Bombardier HS2 units could be assembled in Derby - though there is stiff competition for HS2 stock and a hybrid Hitachi-Bombardier design is certainly not the forerunner) 

Edited by 159220
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Something is, apparently, coming home, leading to 800018 bravely waving St George's flag on its standard class driving trailer at Newport on its way to Cardiff yesterday.

post-5204-0-71734700-1531917963_thumb.jpg

 

Whilst the opposite end of the car is clearly marked to show where lions may be seated on the train

post-5204-0-38956200-1531917974_thumb.jpg 

 

I can't help thinking that #whatajourney is rather too easy a target for unhappy Twitter users travelling on GWR. 

 

More seriously 800019 carries "It's coming home" then the names of the England World Cup football team followed by "and three lions." along its body side. It was applied last week, but one wonders how long it will be carried for. 

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Today I covered one of the Cheltenham Spa IET runs as far as Swindon, and got to ride on 800305, for the third time (its but a month old)! Performance over Saperton was probably as to be expected, adequate but not exciting. At Stonehouse only the front two coaches were platformed as platform extension work means there is even less than usual to stop at.

As we were coming past Swindon Works North Yard the automatic voice advised "We are now approaching Swindon. Change here for Cheltenham, Gloucester, Kemble, Stroud and Stonehouse" all the stations we'd just called at!

 

While I was at Swindon deciding where to rove next 800001 arrived on a test working, 5Z19 1001 North Pole to Highbridge. It then departed as 5Z20 1126 Swindon back to North Pole. The testing phase must be nearly complete as the litter bin in the driver's cab was almost full to the top.

post-5204-0-09884700-1532027986_thumb.jpg

 

I then caught a pair of 800/0s to Bristol Parkway on a Cardiff working. All was fine until to Wootton Bassett Junction where the engine revs momentarily rose after the 70mph restriction before falling to silence. No engine noise, no air con. We continued the journey at about 70mph to Parkway with the driver making a couple of PA announcement asking the guard to call him. On the first announcement the driver himself said "bing, bong" as the system didn't! On arrival at Parkway it was apparent that the whole of the rear set had shut down, and the driver was requesting fitter's attention. The train eventually left, with only one set powering and still in service.

 

I caught the next IET back to Swindon, another pair of 5-car units. While they sat in the platform at Swindon the front unit shut down, and that left for London with only one set powering. 

 

Next IET Down was brand new 800308 on a Bristol TM working, which I took through to its destination. This was all working, but for a brand new unit it had several bad stains on some of the seats.

post-5204-0-75798600-1532027995_thumb.jpg

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Something is, apparently, coming home, leading to 800018 bravely waving St George's flag on its standard class driving trailer at Newport on its way to Cardiff yesterday.

attachicon.gif004.JPG

 

Whilst the opposite end of the car is clearly marked to show where lions may be seated on the train

attachicon.gif005.JPG

 

I can't help thinking that #whatajourney is rather too easy a target for unhappy Twitter users travelling on GWR. 

 

More seriously 800019 carries "It's coming home" then the names of the England World Cup football team followed by "and three lions." along its body side. It was applied last week, but one wonders how long it will be carried for. 

 

Technically, heraldically, those are leopards not lions... ;) though that doesn't scan so well in the song...

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Technically, heraldically, those are leopards not lions... ;) though that doesn't scan so well in the song...

 

We are possibly getting ever so slightly off-topic, but I believe they are officially blazoned as three lions passant guardant.

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We are possibly getting ever so slightly off-topic, but I believe they are officially blazoned as three lions passant guardant.

 

Which are known... as leopards - Leopard (heraldry) - :offtopic:  and I do appologise for wondering off topic. As someone who managed about 20minutes of football over the world cup, the banging on about 'it's coming home' was really getting on my nerves.

 

So.... 800s... :D

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