Class 800 - Updates

[Indomitable026]

5 car Bi Mode, 800203

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

Interesting to see this last week an IET covering a semi-fast Class 387 working between Reading and Paddington.  From 16 December the train ceases to run, the nearest equivalent working being a Class 345 which will take an extra 7 minutes overall. 

[Mallard60022]

On 27/09/2019 at 21:34, Gwiwer said:

After a few trips on those ironing boards the locals might abandon in sufficient quantity to prove that correct.  It's not just me.  There are others on this thread suffering from the seats.  And for every one here there might be 100 or even 1000 out there in actual reality vowing to take the car next time.  It doesn't overload, you can relax and be comfortable in your seat and you can grab refreshments when ever it suits you.  There are down-sides, true.  Someone has to drive it.  That isn't necessarily relaxing.  But it has the advantage of going from your A to desired B more precisely than most train trips and almost always exactly when you want to go.

 

I very much fear the advantage is tipping back towards the private car as these wretched Japanese things take over on the longer runs.  Maybe not London - Bristol or even Cardiff.  But the comments I hear suggest many people are unhappy and the aches and pains I suffer (sometimes for 2-3 days after the journey) when sitting in the standard class seats may mean that London - Cornwall train travel by GWR will be a thing of the past.  The somewhat slower alternative is via the LSWR route to Exeter thence by HST.  Or possibly 150 or 158 according to what turns up.  

If you CBA to take a look at the FB page for LNER then you get a bit of a feel for the general thinking about the Zoomers and, of course, all the other maoning shi#e that some people just can't stop wasting their life posting to the world at large. However, there are some very positive comments about the comfort! How their arses are shaped I hate to imagine! Seriously though I suspect Scottish to London area flights and maybe return, will become the choice of many. sad, very sad and the DAFT need a good kicking.

[Mallard60022]

On 28/09/2019 at 08:37, Ian Hargrave said:

With regard to the seating posted above,what then when LNER introduce the Azuma on The Highland Chieftain on the long KX-Inverness run ? The real benefit there will undoubtedly be increased room and seating capacity.

But then,that applies to all services on the Highland main line which is still a mix of 170’s and “Classic”125 .Overcrowding at peak season (now) is chronic on Scotrail services .

Complimentary seat cushions.

Phil

[railsquid]

On 29/07/2019 at 01:22, multivac said:

Found on the web, sorry if this has been posted before. Click on each link in order to enjoy.

Omiya Railway Museum, Japan  mural showing key events in Japanese railway history ...

 

The big picture   The first one   Recent new trains

 

Glad someone found those interesting :)

[The Stationmaster]

An interesting comment on the IETs.  On Monday I travelled up to York on the 12.00 from KX - the HST to Inverness.  Very heavily loaded but I found a seat opposite a lady of mature years and we chatted all the way to York.  She thought the 'old train' we were on was 'awful' and it was definitely rocking 'n rolling and bouncing its way down the ECML with some noticeably bad riding even sitting in the centre of the coach.  She began to compare it very unfavourably with 'the lovely  new train' on which she had travelled up to London from the West Country saying how much nicer it was inside.  In response to my question she said that she thought the seats on that one (the IET) were much more comfortable than the ones we were sitting in on the HST.

 

It was quite interesting to hear the views of an ordinary passenger and the fact that she definitely preferred IETs to ageing HSTs.

[Ian Hargrave]

Maybe eventually we'll get to love the series 800 and point taken with regard to rough riding.Our return York trip was courtesy of XC 220 in each direction,now also after 17 years intensive service suffering some rough riding with tired seating upholstery too.

 

Waiting for southbound train in the sparse but warm and comfortable waiting room on platform 3 was interesting in terms of the variety and age of stock providing passenger services from the sublime (IET,Nova1/3) to the gorblimey (Pacers). Of note were the audio visual spectacle of the TPE  Scarborough-Liverpool  pushmepullyou  1M74 thundering rapidly past our snug vantage point ,the Stadtler 68 on the back chasing it away like some growling tiger.Then the proudly announced LNER Azuma charging away from its platform southbound like a racehorse from the starting gate...phenomenal acceleration ! Finally the unbranded TPE 802 (Nova 1on the electronic display) ghosting in and out like a silver wraith on Newcastle services.An hour's wait was not boring

[Barry O]

Travelled in an Azuma for the first time.

Do not sit in a seat over a bogey! The ride on the ECML is, at certain pointd very bumpy.

Due to a cheap upgrade first class seat trial carried out... even they are a bit uncomfortable. Feel sorry for the catering team as only limited food choice available on the train.

 

Baz  

[Bomag]

20 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

An interesting comment on the IETs.  On Monday I travelled up to York on the 12.00 from KX - the HST to Inverness.  Very heavily loaded but I found a seat opposite a lady of mature years and we chatted all the way to York.  She thought the 'old train' we were on was 'awful' and it was definitely rocking 'n rolling and bouncing its way down the ECML with some noticeably bad riding even sitting in the centre of the coach.  She began to compare it very unfavourably with 'the lovely  new train' on which she had travelled up to London from the West Country saying how much nicer it was inside.  In response to my question she said that she thought the seats on that one (the IET) were much more comfortable than the ones we were sitting in on the HST.

 

It was quite interesting to hear the views of an ordinary passenger and the fact that she definitely preferred IETs to ageing HSTs.

 

Ride quality on HSTs and Mk4 has become a bit more variable over the last 12 months, it goes with inoperable loos and poor relaiblity on the food side. Not that Azuma are any different, I came back from KX on 4th (19:30); the 5 car 801 had no hot food and one working loo in steerage.

 

As Barry methioned the ride on the Azuma is variable (independent of hard seats) - the worst bit on my last trip was accross the fens, it was very bouncy. The ride is never going to be briliant on this section but it was giving the tea a good stir.

 

As we say, there is nowt as queer as folk - the fact that some people find 800's brilliant does not detract that a lot of people don't. I find pacers OK, although a pair of them is better, while others loath them.   

[Barry O]

I believe LNER employed the same internal designers for the first class section of their Azumas who equipped Lufthansa aircraft in Lancashire and Yorkshire colours..light sh!t and dark sh!t.

 

Absolutely dire.

 

The HSTs are absolutely wornout..mkivs are unloved so bothe are on a very minimal maintenance regime.

 

Baz

[Gwiwer]

Which leaves us with very few options for comfortable travel. 

 

Jap-cr@ppers between Penzance and Inverness on most services via London. Vomiters on most XC workings. And 700s plus a motley selection of multiple units farther north if one tried to use stopping trains. 

 

There’s always the West Coast pendolini but even those are not supremely comfortable. And they use vomiters on some London - Scotland trips too which seems a disgrace when it’s electrified all the way. 

 

Hmmmm.  Charter Mk1s with a water-boiling beast in charge, anyone???

[Mallard60022]

On 18/10/2019 at 14:22, Barry O said:

I believe LNER employed the same internal designers for the first class section of their Azumas who equipped Lufthansa aircraft in Lancashire and Yorkshire colours..light sh!t and dark sh!t.

 

Absolutely dire.

 

The HSTs are absolutely wornout..mkivs are unloved so bothe are on a very minimal maintenance regime.

 

Baz

Being a little pedantic here Baz, it was the DAFT specs that resulted in the 800s crap seats, along with other weird bits of design notclever; LNER just had to use what they were given. However you may well be right that LNER actually chose the colours as the sets in 'running in mode' didn't have a lot of seat fittings in place and thus, if so...yup, pretty well sh1t colour choice. 

P 

Edited October 19, 2019 by Mallard60022

[Bomag]

6 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Being a little pedantic here Baz, it was the DAFT specs that resulted in the 800s crap seats, along with other weird bits of design notclever; LNER just had to use what they were given.

 

VEC specced the colour scheme, along with a few other bits - such as the buffet.

[Mallard60022]

1 minute ago, Bomag said:

 

VEC specced the colour scheme, along with a few other bits - such as the buffet.

Oh thanks Bomag; what is VEC?

P

[Bomag]

Virgin East Coast

[Mallard60022]

18 minutes ago, Bomag said:

Virgin East Coast

Oh of course; who were they then...…..

[royaloak]

28 minutes ago, Bomag said:

Virgin East Coast

Is that the franchise which is 90% Stagecoach and 10% Virgin but people still refer to it as Virgin?

[Mallard60022]

Just now, royaloak said:

Is that the franchise which is 90% Stagecoach and 10% Virgin but people still refer to it as Virgin?

Was!

P

[royaloak]

8 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Was!

P

Eh, did I miss something?

 

Edit-

Just done a quick google search and note the East Coast franchise failed again in 2018, I really cant keep up with all these failures.

Edited October 19, 2019 by royaloak

[Barry O]

1 hour ago, royaloak said:

Eh, did I miss something?

 

Edit-

Just done a quick google search and note the East Coast franchise failed again in 2018, I really cant keep up with all these failures.

It was made to fail. The Government owned LNER area lot worse than Virgin East Coast. Poor maintenance, poor  senior management.. clueless at how to run a railway. Staff feel downtrodden and often kept in the dark especially by Network Fail who, along with the DfT are technically incompetent ar senior management level.

In half an hour at Stevenage yesterday two "blocklayers" installed 6 blocks...no site management..both using their mobile phones a lot..no wonder it will take 2 years to build a platform....

 

Baz

[Mallard60022]

3 hours ago, Barry O said:

It was made to fail. The Government owned LNER area lot worse than Virgin East Coast. Poor maintenance, poor  senior management.. clueless at how to run a railway. Staff feel downtrodden and often kept in the dark especially by Network Fail who, along with the DfT are technically incompetent ar senior management level.

In half an hour at Stevenage yesterday two "blocklayers" installed 6 blocks...no site management..both using their mobile phones a lot..no wonder it will take 2 years to build a platform....

 

Baz

Ouch!

[Ken.W]

On 03/09/2019 at 23:27, royaloak said:

The brakes are actually pretty good, the issues are when you are braking for a station and have lost most of the speed and release the brake to allow the train to reach the stop marker, when you re-apply the brakes the computer tries to use the dynamic brake but because of the low speed the traction motors wont produce enough electricity (they are effectively alternators at this point) to cause retardation so there is no braking effect, after a few seconds the computer will realise the problem and then initiate the air brakes, unfortunately this means we have no brake force just when we need it most and the train doesnt stop where we intended which can lead to station over-runs etc, the easy fix would be for the computer to swap (blend) from dynamic to air brakes at a higher speed, say 30mph, which means we would get the problem out of the way much earlier and could then control the train properly and stop on the marker, plus most of the braking would be dynamic so not much brake wear overall.

 

Unfortunately this seems to be an impossible task (despite Voyagers and other trains successfully using dynamic and air brakes with no blending issues for nearly 20 years) so most of the fleet are using just the air brakes from 125 mph to 0 mph which 'solves' the blending issue but eats through pads and discs like there is no tomorrow but as Network Rail are picking up the tab its a nice little earner* for Hitachi so they are in no rush to fix the issue.

 

 

Yet another great leap backwards

 

The transition blending from rheostatic to friction braking on the 91s is barely noticeable, and yes it does start from 30 mph.

And these have been doing so for 30 years

[phil-b259]

6 hours ago, Barry O said:

It was made to fail.

 

Thus proving the die hard capitalists right and provoking a return to the much vaulted ‘private sector’ in some form.

 

HM Treasury - especially Conservative Governed ones hate the state having to pay for stuff - the attitude of ‘lets run it down then claim we need to privatise it / outsource it to make it better’ hasn’t gone away in spite of all the failures so far...

[rodent279]

8 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Thus proving the die hard capitalists right and provoking a return to the much vaulted ‘private sector’ in some form.

 

HM Treasury - especially Conservative Governed ones hate the state having to pay for stuff - the attitude of ‘lets run it down then claim we need to privatise it / outsource it to make it better’ hasn’t gone away in spite of all the failures so far...

The only surprising thing in all the above is that electorates keep voting for it.

[Ken.W]

On 09/09/2019 at 21:53, royaloak said:

I had an restricted 802 with and engine out (not unusual) and the fastest it managed was 118 eventually, well it took 22 miles to reach it.

 

In comparison, an HST can reach the full 125 in around 12 miles

 

The 800s on electric also seem slower than the 91s in the mid to high end range so despite their rapid start only reaching 125 around a couple of miles sooner