Intercity (Swallow) 37's

[mjkerr]

PS, in BR days, when the sleeper service left Edinburgh, my understanding is that it's cost centre was still Intercity, but the loco crew and indeed the 37's themselves were under Scotrail cost centre, which were in turn hired to Intercity- much like EWS/DB operating the 90s for first sleeper. I don't know if this is in fact correct?

I worked for InterCity East Coast, living in Aberdeen, based at Edinburgh

 

The sleeper train was operated by InterCity West Coast (Sleepers) ICWC

The on-board crew were employed by InterCity On Board Services (West Coast) ICOBS

Each region would then bid to ICWC to supply the drivers and Senior Conductors, although the process was a formality for the sleepers

 

Inverness sleeper :

ScotRail driver Inverness - Edinburgh  

ScotRail conductor Inverness - Edinburgh

ICWC (Edinburgh) driver Edinburgh - Preston  

ICWC (Edinburgh) conductor Edinburgh - Carlisle

 

Aberdeen sleeper :

ScotRail driver Aberdeen - Edinburgh

ICEC (Edinburgh) Aberdeen - Edinburgh

ICWC (Edinburgh) driver Edinburgh - Preston

ICWC (Edinburgh) Edinburgh - Carlisle

 

Due to the restriction of traction knowledge the ScotRail driver from Aberdeen - Edinburgh would arrive on the (Plymouth -) Edinburgh - Aberdeen, as would the conductor

However, if this service was running late the conductor could travel on an alternative service, but an additional driver would then be required

[Derekstuart]

Thank MJKerr for the further information.

 

I only ever once travelled on a sleeper train- and that was in the cattle wagon attached to the back. (NEVER AGAIN). Not the best travelling companions and I don't think we wen't above 30MPH between Inverness and Edinburgh

 

I was travelling on a BR PT pass at the time on a "round Britain in 80 hours" trip, with my Dad, who was then a Traction Inspector. We went from Euston to Glasgow C then Glasgow QS to Inverness in the back cab of a light 37 movement, slept overnight in a DMU in Inverness, then out to Wick, back to Inverness- a few hours and then into the cattle wagon (Mk2BSO full of the great un-washed, alcoholics and a right trouble maker (no, not me!)), down to Euston, quick walk over to Kings Cross drivers canteen for breakfast, dash over to Paddington for Inverness HST, back to Paddington and got to Euston just in time to miss the last late night train back home (Northampton).

 

Ah thank heavens for 31's and their newspaper vans which aren't booked to stop before Birmingham, but on this occasion happened to have a "technical issue" in Milton Keynes which was totally un-related to the 2 un-washed scruffs slumming it in the rear cab who got out at MK...

What a trip. I was looking at the sleeper booking page recently. I'd like to do it properly before the good old MK3s are scrapped in favour of the foreign imported carriages running behind the imported diesels. But you can't beat a MK3 behind a 47 or 37... (except with the back cab of another 37)

[mjkerr]

There will be many more but some of the liveries/loco's i know appeared:

Dutch - 066/071/087/099/133/170 (I am sure there were many more)

Construction - 214

RfD - 113

Coal - 692/693

Metals - 078/100

Petrolium - 080

LL Blue - 116/209

Full list :

http://www.c37lg.co.uk/fleettext.aspx?strText=1M12 (Aberdeen - Edinburgh)  

http://www.c37lg.co.uk/fleettext.aspx?strText=1M16 (Inverness - Edinburgh)

http://www.c37lg.co.uk/fleettext.aspx?strText=1S79 (Edinburgh - Aberdeen)

http://www.c37lg.co.uk/fleettext.aspx?strText=1S25 (Edinburgh - Inverness)

 

Oddly, I can't remember either of the Large Logo Blue locos making an appearance

37116 only made six appearances

37209 however made many more but only in the first half of 1992 

Sadly it seems its use on the sleeper was the demise of this loco, and this same fate met other Class 37/0 over this four year period

[Derekstuart]

MJKerr, I know this is a 37 forum, but as a sneaky question while the moderators aren't looking, you mentioned 47/6's from Inverness operated before the 37s.

 

Out of curiosity, do you know whether 47674- WRVS ever appeared on sleepers? I had this a couple of times on day services from Inverness to Edinburgh and a few years later on the weekend of the carstairs electrification, it sat at the back of Waverley, only for me to be so disappointed when an 86 appeared... Although that disappointment gave way when we were told the electrickery had a problem and they were going to use a diesel to drag us out to Carstairs... my very last time on BR metal behind a Brush 4.

 

The engine wasn't in good condition judging by the thick black smoke. Perhaps a turbo failure or manifold leak, but best ever trip.

 

Again, apologies for the o/t- it's just that you mentioned the /6's.

 

Cheers.

[mjkerr]

do you know whether 47674- WRVS ever appeared on sleepers?

A little bit of history about this specific loco,47604, to see if it ties in with your use

The loco was originally BR Blue but had the yellow ends filled in making easy to recognise allocated Inverness between July 1985 and May 1988

It was Eastfield based, repainted fully in Large Logo Blue and named on 03 August 1998

Note that on repainting the curly 7 were used

It made many appearances on the sleepers prior to March 1991

It then returned to Inverness

It was modified to a Class 47/6 in July 1991, primarily for use on sleepers, which resulted on both types of 7 being used!

With the introduction of Class 37 on sleepers it was allocated to Crewe from September 1992

As you can see from the above, as 47674 it would most definitely be seen on the sleepers between July 1991 and May 1992

I can certainly remember it appearing in Aberdeen a few times

[Derekstuart]

Thanks MKKerr, it is really appreciated that you've taken so much time to answer so many questions.

 

Having scoured the internet, I have found it was 1989 that the Carstairs-Waverley had the misfortune of being electrickeryfied. I thought it was later- AFTER the ecml was vandalised with wires, but it seems memories are playing tricks on me.

 

That is interesting as 674 looked pretty rough in all respects at the time and so I was told at the time was engaged in p way work normally. So I am assuming some sort of overhaul before moving onto the taxing sleeper work.

 

I'm pleased to see its still in use with West Coast Railways, and given the premium on even 50 year old diesels at the moment, its future is assured for a while yet.... though I will have to keep a watch on WCRC disposal list.... My other favourite, 711, was scrapped a few years before I was in a position to adpot a Brush 4 and give it a home. I would hate to make the same mistake twice.

 

Thanks again for all the info. BTW I found some good reference shots of the BG jenny vans. I must add to my list of things on my new workbench!

Edited January 12, 2015 by Derekstuart

[mjkerr]

That is interesting as 674 looked pretty rough in all respects at the time and so I was told at the time was engaged in p way work normally. So I am assuming some sort of overhaul before moving onto the taxing sleeper work.

Are you sure it was 47674, and not 47604?

As an Inverness based engine in modified BR Blue it was very reliable (the same could pretty much be said for any Inverness based loco at the time)

Towards the end of its Inverness allocation it had this livery updated with correct Large Logo, but smaller Class 37 sized numbers, but certainly better than the previous attempt

It's transfer to Eastfield was inevitable, and as with all their other locos at the time heavily neglected

It is possible on evaluation by Eastfield there were a number of faults and so was restricted in use, and programmed for overhaul

There were other locos that were restricted in their use, and most were overhauled

It was overhauled roughly June 1988, and finally painted properly into Large Logo Blue (along with curly 7)

 

It was selected for conversion as it was the best of the remaining Inverness based locos

[Derekstuart]

I've just looked again at the picture

 

The 7 of 47 is "curvy" but the 7 of 674 is straight.

The 6 is noticeably larger than the other numbers.

It is in full large logo.

It has headlamp and cantrail warning stripe.

The 74 does look smaller than the 47, but that might be an illusion due to the larger 6.

 

What also I find interesting is that it has no long range tanks, yet as a /8 later on, these were fitted. I think that's unusual to have them fitted later on, as (to my knowledge) all the /8's were selected from those still retaining long range tanks. But I might well be wrong on that???

 

I haven't got a scanner at present otherwise I'd upload a copy... might be able to take a photo on my windoze phone and then email that to myself to upload here of course.

 

 

I should also say that the statement it was in departmental use was from a station shunter/ pilot and not from a Traction Inspector or Depot Manager. Perhaps he was just trying to sound helpful- or perhaps it was just filling in on weekend work in departmental use? Even a front line loco can have a problem that doesn't take it out of service. But it was smoking badly (it was black- unburned fuel that's a turbo issue most commonly, isn't it?) however, a turbo change the following day (speculation) could have seen it returned to service as A1. I can't comment on its performance as such as there was only about 6 MK2s on and even a thoroughly knackered 47 would manage that to Carstairs.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Derekstuart

[Derekstuart]

For anyone interested, there's a bit about sleepers with 37's at

 

youtube.com/watch?v=t-5wkh5grbg

 

This forum doesn't seem to allow links, so if that doesn't work try the railvintagetv channel and search rail'92-inter-city.

[D6775]

Mick Parker of the class 37 group has been working on recording all the loco's which worked the Inverness/Aberdeen Sleepers between 92' & 95' with Steve Marshell of Globe Video Films.

 

Info here:

http://www.c37lg.co.uk/sum92.aspx
http://www.c37lg.co.uk/win92_93.aspx
http://www.c37lg.co.uk/sum93.aspx
http://www.c37lg.co.uk/win93_94.aspx
http://www.c37lg.co.uk/sum94.aspx
http://www.c37lg.co.uk/win94_95.aspx

 

Hope this is of help to some, there are still some gaps if anyone can fill them.

 

Al.

[mjkerr]

Mick Parker of the class 37 group has been working on recording all the loco's which worked the Inverness/Aberdeen Sleepers

Excellent list, and shows how the pairs swapped between the routes

 

However, could you pass on the message that the header is slightly incorrect :

1M16 2010 Inverness - Euston

Between Edinburgh - Aberdeen

 

Should read :

1M16 2010 Inverness - Euston

Between Inverness - Edinburgh

[wirey33]

Is anyone aware of a kit to produce the MK1 BG Generator coaches?

[Derekstuart]

I don't know about a kit, but for conversions of "that sort of thing" I'd have a look at the thread by Mick/New Bryford- his yellow trains. If you can't find what is or is not available on that thread, you'll never find it anywhere else.

[mjkerr]

Is anyone aware of a kit to produce the MK1 BG Generator coaches?

NXX Generator vans 6311 to 6313

 

There is a kit for OO gauge, but I have never found one for N gauge

[wirey33]

NXX Generator vans 6311 to 6313

 

There is a kit for OO gauge, but I have never found one for N gauge

 

Who is the manufacturer of the OO kit ?

 

I did read that somewhere that Etched Pixels did something in N Gauge?

[mjkerr]

Who is the manufacturer of the OO kit ?

 

I did read that somewhere that Etched Pixels did something in N Gauge?

As I moved from OO to N gauge, didn't take any details

 

Etched Pixels used to do one of the HST barrier generator vehicles, but not the sleeper generator which has a different roof mounted exhaust

[Stormbringer]

Can anyone tell me please if the conversion kit for the generator van is still available? and if so who makes it? I've tried searching on this site and via google but to no avail.

 

Regards

        Pete