Bob O Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Is the Hornby Castle double chimney wrong or right? I just picked up (for a song!) a Hornby Penrice Castle. Down the club opinions are divided if the double chimney is wrong or right? Now I hope it is right but am prepared to buy a 247 developments one if it aint? HELP please Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWeatheringMan Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 5057 'Penrice Castle' was re-named 'Earl Waldegrave' in 1937 and didn't receive a double chimney until 1958, so it's wrong under the 'Penrice' name. For full details of this engine's history, see http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&id=5057&type=S&loco=5057 The same website lists modification dates for all 'Castle class' engines. Mike Hi, No it isnt. The Hornby model is correct. Although the above information is correct as far as 5057 goes it is not the whole story. The name Penrice Castle was reused on 5081 - which was subsequently also renamed, this time to Lockheed Hudson and then again reused on a later BR built Castle 7023 and that locomotive was fitted with a double chimney - the Hornby model is of that later loco and is correct. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOxon Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Hi, No it isnt. Although the above information is correct as far as it goes it is not the whole story. The name Penrice Castle was reused on a later BR built Castle and that locomotive was fitted with a double chimney - the Hornby model is of that later loco and is correct. Regards I removed my original post to try to reduce confusion - I wasn't aware of the later no.7023 'Penrice Castle', which received a double chimney in 1958. see http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&type=S&id=7023&loco=7023for full details. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 9, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 9, 2015 Assuming it is the new 'Penrice Castle' and the double chimney is the same as the previous one Hornby used on the 'new' 'Castles' then it definitely looks to be the correct shape for the cast pattern chimney used on 'Castles'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWeatheringMan Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Assuming it is the new 'Penrice Castle' and the double chimney is the same as the previous one Hornby used on the 'new' 'Castles' then it definitely looks to be the correct shape for the cast pattern chimney used on 'Castles'. Hi Mike, Yes it is modelled on the 'high' cast chimney as fitted to the 70xx series and older locos. I'm sure Hornby have only ever done 'Penrice Castle' on the 'new' Castle and not on the old ex Airfix model. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I know not whether it is correct or not but some comparison pictures of 'Ince' and 'Penrice'. Makes them look the same to me. As with other parts of 'Penrice' Refined models seem to have given up with some of the painting detail. 'Ince' top, 'Penrice' bottom 'Ince left, 'Penrice' right 'Ince' left, 'Penrice' right I don't know who mentioned Airfix - they never made a double chimney. Regards Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWeatheringMan Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I know not whether it is correct or not but some comparison pictures of 'Ince' and 'Penrice'. Makes them look the same to me. As with other parts of 'Penrice' Refined models seem to have given up with some of the painting detail. 'Ince' top, 'Penrice' bottom 'Ince left, 'Penrice' right 'Ince' left, 'Penrice' right I don't know who mentioned Airfix - they never made a double chimney. Regards Ray Airfix was not mentioned in connection with a double chimney as I was fully aware that they never made a double chimney Castle. I was confirming that the double chinmey of the 'new' Hornby Castle is correct. What I said was, in connection with the OP's post regarding the Penrice Castle name was that as far as I knew the name has only been used on the 'new' Castle and not the old ex Airfix model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidnutter Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Im no expert on all things GWR, but I do wonder if the curve and width of the copper cap is too much. 5043 has a much slimmer and flatter curve to the cap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 9, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 9, 2015 Hi Mike, Yes it is modelled on the 'high' cast chimney as fitted to the 70xx series and older locos. I'm sure Hornby have only ever done 'Penrice Castle' on the 'new' Castle and not on the old ex Airfix model. Regards As far as I know they have only done 'Penrice' the once - but they have of course done other engines with the double chimney in the 'new' version' Castle'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froxfield2012 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I can only do 5061! This picture was taken shortly after 5061 was so equipped. It looks to me as though this latest Hornby has made a pretty good attempt at the double chimney. I confess that I always thought them pretty ugly, whilst acknowledging the probable increased efficiency. Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 There is a list of Hornby Castles (and a Class 5?) on the Hornby Collectors Club web site. There are apparently pictures of the models at the bottom of the page. There is an image of Hornby Blenheim and Hornby Pendennis Castle (not Airfix) with double chimneys which to my way of thinking are positioned further back from the smokebox than the 70xx series versions. Regards Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Castle chimneys can always be "fun" you start with the single chimneys tail to start with then short. When they started with double chimneys the first one or two were like this, 7018 in 1956, The later cast chimneys looked like this, note how the exhaust has now changed sides. 7023 in approx. 1962. So the Hornby chimney is something like (looks a bit fat to me). As Silver Sidelines mentions in some photos the chimneys can look closer to the front of the smokebox. All of the above photos are only used to illustrate the points mentioned. OzzyO. Edit to add this photo, 4090, 1957. In this photo it does look like the chimney is a bit further back on the smokebox. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOxon Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 ........................ Edit to add this photo, 4090, 1957. In this photo it does look like the chimney is a bit further back on the smokebox. Counting rivets behind the chimney ( ) suggests that it is the same distance from the back of the smokebox as the others. Perhaps the 'looks like' is due to photographic perspective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froxfield2012 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Counting rivets behind the chimney ( ) suggests that it is the same distance from the back of the smokebox as the others. Perhaps the 'looks like' is due to photographic perspective. Absolutely! Perspective (not to mention lens distortion "back in the day") is everything. I have photos of the same engine, on the same day, from different angles where it can look like different chimneys. Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWeatheringMan Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Absolutely! Perspective (not to mention lens distortion "back in the day") is everything. I have photos of the same engine, on the same day, from different angles where it can look like different chimneys. Richard Hi, Indeed, yourself and MikeOxon are correct - the double chimneys were all in the same position, this was dictated by the fitting of a 4row superheater to locos fitted with the double chimney. 7018 'Drysllwyn Castle' was the first of the class to be fitted and its chimney was a 'one off' built up chimney. Only after the sucess of the double chimney was proven in trials with 7018 was a new pattern made at Swindon - this was of course much wider and less 'sharp' in appearance. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 It looks like the first chimney was carried by more than one loco 7019 1964, around this time 7018 was carrying a standard Castle double chimney, Castle smokebox and double chimney, looking at the dimensions these chimneys are not the same as a king one, Castle 1'7", King 1'41/2" Drawing and photo only used to illustrate the points above. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 11, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 11, 2015 It is a fairly simple matter with the 'Kings' to trace which ones were fitted with the original built-up double chimney but that seems to be much more difficult with the 'Castles'. However I suspect that in one respect they are no different from the 'Kings' (as far as I have been able to trace - more information always welcomed) in that engines which had a built-up double chimney subsequently had it replaced by the finalised design of cast chimney (although the pic of 7019 might suggest differently?). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob O Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 Thanks! I have been working away and on return found a super series of replies to my query.What a wonderful model Even the haulage is adequate 40 wagons /10 coaches, Not like the 56XX I purchased at the same time, Despite the same weight (285g) it hauls 12 wagons less. Boo Bachmann. The Hornby castle is the best ever model, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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