well filled baps The Sheep Chronicles : These are the adventures of a Sheep, the Works Forecat and Naughty George,

[Donw]

All this talk of Panniers is making me want one. Not really appropriate to Edwardian times  but  Chris still has some listed on the Minerva site. I really would like  9681 having driven her from Norchard to Lydney Junction and back she ran quite nicely. Lovely sound as you open her up a little to go back up to Norchard. 

 

Don

[NHY 581]

8 hours ago, Alister_G said:

 

This really is a great shame Rob, it must be dampening your enthusiasm, I know it would me.

 

Al.

 

 

Morning Al. 

 

It is. I'm trying to remain optimistic but I am starting to struggle with it all.  This probably sounds defeatist. All I am after are two or three locos that will run slowly and smoothly and come to a proper halt in both directions. This is not happening for me. Either by way of new locos or s/h. 

 

If I am to build another layout, both to use at home and exhibit,  then it must run well.  If it's not good enough for me then its not good enough for anyone else.  

 

I see my choices as follows.....

 

1.Perservere in the hope I find decent running examples of the loco types I'm after. 

 

2.Learn how to build replacement chassis and utilise rtr bodies. Time and cost are against me here. Set that to one side and its possible 

 

3.Keep the idea of a small rural goods yard. Give up on W.R  and switch to loco types I know will work and have 'in stock'. ( B4 and P class to start with, J15 / Model Rail Sentinels at the outside ).  

 

4.Build something else- IOW terminus ? The Terriers aren't yet good enough but........

 

5.Build something else entirely, as in not thought of yet. 

 

6.Final option. Let frustration get the upper hand. Stop wasting time and give up altogether. Get rid of as much 4mm stuff and switch to 7mm. Layout space is the main  issue here but not insurmountable. If I do this then the existing layouts can go as well. Mutton's fate is already pretty much in the balance............

 

 

Rob. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mullie]

That is really sad to hear Rob. I stopped buying rtr after the Claud came out and have taught myself to solder, build track and get mechanisms working. I've never regretted the change. I have always made buildings. 

 

It does make financial sense too as I spread the cost across a few months for more expensive items. 

 

I increasingly read about new locos at increasing prices with quality control issues so have concentrated on getting what I have working some of which is twenty years old. 

 

Like you I don't have the space for O gauge or to build what I want. 

 

I'm convinced you have the skills and once we are able to mix people can show you if necessary.  I would be happy to help. Once you get started you won't look back. It is quite different though I think more rewarding. 

 

Martyn 

[Captain Kernow]

1 hour ago, mullie said:

I'm convinced you have the skills and once we are able to mix people can show you if necessary.  I would be happy to help. Once you get started you won't look back. It is quite different though I think more rewarding.

I completely agree, so here is another offer of assistance and advice, should you wish to try that course, Rob.

 

[2ManySpams]

4 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

I completely agree, so here is another offer of assistance and advice, should you wish to try that course, Rob.

 

Great offer CK, and I'm sure the downcast sheep will be pleased with your offer of support (however he wishes to wear it).

 

The one benefit of GWR locos is that the vast majority have no outside valve gear and that does simplify chassis builds. You've shown in your threads that RTR can be given a leg up in quality of running with better chassis. 

 

Don't give up Rob.  

[New Haven Neil]

Minerva Paneers are highly recommended!  Don't jump over the ends of sidings either.

 

[Donw]

For those whose main interest is in the building of a layout and stock 0 gauge works well.   I would suggest that you do not need that much space see here  https://ogaugemicro.blogspot.com/p/moxley.html

 

Includes a loco built from card apart from the motor, wheels and bearings and con rod.  And it performs to a standard you would find acceptable.

 

Don

[LDM34046]

Rob have you thought about DCC?

 

I know people will swear blue that 'DCC doesn't improve motor performance' but had nothing but issues with a few of my locos and replacing the chip with a high quality Zimo or ESU decoder, fettling with the motor controls and installing a stay alive capacitor they're leaps and bounds better than what they used to be! 

 

People argue at the cost but I suspect it wouldn't cost any more than building new chassis, changing stock or converting to 7mm.

 

Food for thought...

[Captain Kernow]

4 hours ago, LDM34046 said:

Rob have you thought about DCC?

 

I know people will swear blue that 'DCC doesn't improve motor performance' but had nothing but issues with a few of my locos and replacing the chip with a high quality Zimo or ESU decoder, fettling with the motor controls and installing a stay alive capacitor they're leaps and bounds better than what they used to be! 

 

People argue at the cost but I suspect it wouldn't cost any more than building new chassis, changing stock or converting to 7mm.

 

Food for thought...

I've heard this too and have operated a DCC layout, although I have to say that the locos in use were built by a master of his craft and would have run beautifully on DC as well!

 

One thing that Rob might also wish to consider is whether an element of feedback in the DC control might help matters. I have found this to be the case with some locos that didn't want to run as well on a straight Gaugemaster DC supply.

 

[LDM34046]

1 hour ago, Captain Kernow said:

I've heard this too and have operated a DCC layout, although I have to say that the locos in use were built by a master of his craft and would have run beautifully on DC as well!

Granted DCC can’t solve miracles but it can definitely iron out a lot of grumpy motors! 

[Gilbert]

1 minute ago, LDM34046 said:

Granted DCC can’t solve miracles but it can definitely iron out a lot of grumpy motors! 

I think stuff needs to be mechanically sound to start with but in terms if electrickery DCC does help - I am a fan of stay alives which also improve things...

[LDM34046]

1 minute ago, Gilbert said:

I think stuff needs to be mechanically sound to start with but in terms if electrickery DCC does help - I am a fan of stay alives which also improve things...

Agreed you do need a good base to begin with but being able to adjust individual CV’s and change the speed curve means you can tailor the electrical input to favour the motor at low speeds.

 

Stay-Alives are great, highly recommended

[TrainMan2001]

A bit of a random question, but does DCC generally work well with coreless motors? I know that certain analogue controllers can give issues with them.

[Donw]

Modern DCC decoder work by Pulse Width Modulation but at high frequency so coreless motors will work fine with them.

One benefit of DCC is the decoder is receiving the full output voltage  and just sends the motor a series of pulses this avoids some of the problems with pick up at low votltage with plain DC.  One can use PWM with DC but you do need to be sure it is a design suitable for coreless motors.

The real benefit of DCC is doing away with sections you can drive or stop a loco anywhere on a DCC layout  no sections switches need to be thrown. Moreover you can drive one loco right up to another till the buffers kiss the two can be independantly controlled even when standing on the same length of track.

 

Those shenanigans with the Pannier remind me of an incident of a friends garden layout. It was an open day and I was running trains round the oval for the visitors. Someone took local control of a section to test his loco stopping the running . However if strayed over the sectioninto a bit I was controlling so I whisker it away and hid it at the back of the station so we could keep trains running.

 

Rob

option 2 would be a worthwhile thing to do but not necessarily a quick fix.

Going 7mm should be because you want to do it not just to overcome loco problems

 

I think it would be worth trying a different controller let me know if you are interested costs could be very reasonable.

 

Don  

[NHY 581]

Afternoon all. 

 

Thank you all for your kind suggestions and for the PMs received. I'm most grateful. I shall give matters further thought in due course, as we say. 

 

By way of updates, I would report the following matters.....

 

I have received a full refund for the returned Prairie though I am advised that its runs slowly and without hesitation.......

 

The Pannier is boxed, ready to return to Rails. 

 

I have bought another small prairie a 4575 in lined green. I put in a ridiculous offer with no expectation of winning and received an email telling me I'd won. It looks good, boxed, seemingly little used etc.....time will tell. 

 

In similar circs, I have another new body on the way for a W4.........oops. 

 

I have also secured another WH Thomas private owner wagon to make 2. Nos 119 and 120 were limited edition Bachmann 7 plank wagons from Buffers. The coal merchant operated from Axminster and Lamb Regis.....

 

I am now retiring from e bay for a bit.........

 

 

Oh and I have other news........

 

 

Rob

[LDM34046]

1 minute ago, NHY 581 said:

Oh and I have other news........

oh you tease!

[NHY 581]

Ahem..........

 

May I introduce the Works ForeCat's new apprentice.......

 

George Kitten. 9wks.

 

 

Already demonstrating that  he is something of a characterful chap. 

 

 

 

 

And we have discussed some suitable Gentlemans reading material. 

 

 

 

I thank you. 

[Gilbert]

Unusually early for a kitten young George already seems to have "that look" in his eye.....Good Luck..

[NHY 581]

By way of an experiment, I have temporarily replaced the Gaugemaster combi which normally powers Bleat Wharf with a seemingly ex- RAF WW2 Minitrol duette type controller. Crucially, it tells all and sundry that it is a feedback controller. 

 

When it is switched on, it hums like a large electricity sub-station. 

 

I have therefore  unpacked and run the sulky Pannier. 

 

It still sounds like a bag of spanners. Both directions. 

 

It does run slightly smoother.............

 

 

But it still sounds like a bag of spanners.........

 

 

[MrWolf]

Not a washing machine full of nails then?

 

I used to have an old H&M Duette with feedback control. Never a problem with it, other than sounding like granddad's radio warming up.

[Captain Kernow]

1 hour ago, NHY 581 said:

By way of an experiment, I have temporarily replaced the Gaugemaster combi which normally powers Bleat Wharf with a seemingly ex- RAF WW2 Minitrol duette type controller. Crucially, it tells all and sundry that it is a feedback controller. 

 

When it is switched on, it hums like a large electricity sub-station. 

 

I have therefore  unpacked and run the sulky Pannier. 

 

It still sounds like a bag of spanners. Both directions. 

 

It does run slightly smoother.............

 

 

But it still sounds like a bag of spanners.........

 

 

I do find that feedback gives a louder motor noise.

 

I've also found that my new Gaugemaster feedback hand-held doesn't like my W4 Pecketts (or perhaps the other way round).

 

[Captain Kernow]

2 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

May I introduce the Works ForeCat's new apprentice.......

 

George Kitten. 9wks

What a lovely little chap he is!

 

How does the Works Forecat feel about his new Assistant?

 

[NHY 581]

34 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

What a lovely little chap he is!

 

How does the Works Forecat feel about his new Assistant?

 

 

Evening CK. 

 

The WFC is a tad non-committal at present. A bit sniffy about the whole thing though being quite decent about it all. Formal introductions have been made albeit quite sparingly at this time. 

 

Master George is behaving quite well though is inclined to be a  little too naughty having had to be told off today, primarily as a result of snacking on a mobile phone charger cable. 

 

 

With regards to the Perennial Pannier Problem, I have reconsidered my decision to return it. 

I like it. My first mistake. It does not run to the required standard. No mistake but I am inclined to try and sort it out. Possible mistake. 

 

The wheel rotation is smoother. No doubt.  The gradual stop isn't and the bag of spanners noise effects remain. 

 

But I am going to have a go at it...................

 

R

 

 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by NHY 581
Drink.

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, MrWolf said:

Not a washing machine full of nails then?

 

I used to have an old H&M Duette with feedback control. Never a problem with it, other than sounding like granddad's radio warming up.

One of the two switches on a Duette is for high/low resistance - the former being useful for shunting (sometimes). The other selects full wave or half wave rectification. The latter tends to take recalcitrant locos by the scruff of the neck to even out lumpy running but  the remaining a.c component makes motors growl and get hot.

 

Fine with robust X04 and old HD motors so long as you don't over-use it, but probably not a good idea with modern can types where brushes can't  be replaced and a complete no-no for the coreless sort.

 

John

[MrWolf]

I got rid of it a long time ago (20+ years.) when I was told that the new generation of Bachmann locos might be damaged. I had originally retired it because the old Airfix and Mainline locos were a bit sensitive if you had it on the coarse settings.

But it did give things a kick up the backside.