Hillside/Embankment, best way to make

[michaelp]

Hi all,

I want to build an embankment (if thats the correct name) on my layout. I have absolutely no experience at all with working with model railway scenics.

 

I have done a bit research online but not really found anything that might help. Are there any kits/materials available that assist in building these structures, when built what is the best way to add covering ie, grass, bushes etc?

 

The type of hill/embankment I want to build with sidings on top sloping down to the lower sidings can be seen at the link below.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/5663776130/in/set-72157626472020361

 

Thanks in advance to anyone who might be able to help.

 

Photo courtesy of Ernie Brack

 

 

Michael

Edited January 11, 2015 by michaelp

[hornbyandbf3fan]

Hi Michael

 

I've always used cardboard slats for the basic shape stuffed with newspaper. From there, I cover it with plaster paris creating a rock hard surface which I paint brown and then apply scenics. I mainly used static grass and underbrush for areas I can't quite get to with the applicator. If you have a quick look at my thread you will see what I mean!

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/74147-a-small-yard/page-3

[cromptonnut]

This is what I normally do.  It's not the quickest method but with practice (do it on a scrap piece of wood first!) it can be quite quick and surprisingly effective.

 

1) Using a sheet of 1" thick polystyrene insulation (can be bought at builders merchants and DIY shops, usually 8ft x 4ft but breaks for transport easily), cut blocks to the approx. shape you want using a Stanley knife (remembering that the widest part is the bottom, not the top, of where you want the embankment to be) and glue in place/together with PVA wood glue, using cocktail sticks pushed through to help hold everything in place.  Do not use "UHU" or other solvent glue as this melts the polystyrene.  Don't ask how I discovered this years ago.

 

2) When set, cut to shape.  You can buy proprietary 'hot wire' cutting devices, or you can use a good kitchen knife (be very careful) although I have an old soldering iron where the bit is knackered and simply melt the shape I want.  But if using that method ensure you either do it outdoors/in the garage or shed, or ensure you have windows open as it really does smell very badly.

 

3) Lay dampened plaster bandage strips - common trade name is "Mod-Roc" although generic name rolls are available too - and allow to dry.  This won't take too long in a normal room but give it a couple of hours to be safe.

 

4) Mix up a 'base paint' of brown poster paint and PVA glue, and paint over the area you want to cover.  Sprinkle the "dyed sawdust" type scatter on to it and press down with your fingers.  Allow to dry (at least overnight). 

 

5) Using the normal 50:50 diluted PVA/water and a drop of washing up liquid mixture, using an eye dropper or paintbrush, dampen the sawdust-covered base but not too much otherwise you'll dislodge it.

 

6) When dry carefully remove any excess scatter by gently hovering over it (with a bit of an old pair of tights over the nozzle so you can reuse the excess as a base).

 

7) using a teastrainer (get one from the pound shop) carefully scatter "Extra Fine Ground Foam" or similar in the shade you want, depending on the season.  Woodland Scenics do a good range although others are available.  Ensure everything is covered, and allow to dry.

 

8) Repeat step 6 followed by step 5 over this new layer.

 

9) Repeat step 7 but in patches, using a different shade.  A "burnt grass" shade works quite well for the summer.

 

10) Repeat step 8.

 

11) Lay static grass (you'll need a static grass device, from £25 upwards) so you have sticky-uppy grass.

 

12) Bushes can be created by gluing (with neat PVA) teased-out lumps of Woodland Scenics "FP178 Poly Fibre" or similar randomly, then when dry paint over with the diluted PVA mixture and sprinkle over a ground foam type scatter.  Yellow can be used to represent gorse bushes.  Repeat step 6 if required.

 

13) Small trees can be found using 'sea foam' trees dipped in diluted PVA and sprinkled with scatter,  Plenty of guides online to do that

 

Although not the best picture, using that method has given me this "work in progress".

 

 



[Guest]

An alternative is to use a sheet of closed-cell foam insulation to build up the required height. This can be easily cut and shaped with far less mess than traditional polystyrene. Once you're happy with the basic shape, a skim of plaster is advisable, as mentioned by Will above. When gluing foam, just remember to use a solvent-free adhesive!

 

http://www.wickes.co.uk/Celotex-50mm-High-Performance-Cavity-Wall-Board-450x1200mm/p/190546

 

Edit: Damnit - beaten to it by that 'nut fella.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Pete 75C

[gwrrob]

Excellent advice from Crompton but may I offer another alternative using scenic mats over the modroc/card formers.Here I used meadow sheets from Green Scene with added scatters, static grass and clumping. Very satisfying.Make sure you cover the trackwork with newspaper before doing scenic work as it's very messy.

 

Edited January 11, 2015 by gwrrob

[cromptonnut]

I hadn't thought about the "scenic mats" gwrrob but if you've only got small areas to cover they may well be an easy solution to at least get an undergrowth of sorts, although they can tend to look a bit "bowling green" to me which isn't really the unkempt look Michael appears to be looking for.

[cromptonnut]

Oh, and if you're quick Michael, this has just appeared in the "Classified" ads which may be of interest.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/classifieds/item/8799-the-scenery-handbook-peter-marriott-free-pp/

[jamie92208]

An easy way to do it is as follows:-

 

1) Get a small piece of chicken wire from a builders merchants or DIY shop.

 

2)  Rougly cut it to the size of the area that you want to cover allowing an inch of overlap all round or even a bit more.

 

3)  Staple it down with a staple gun and shape it to the rough shape you want.

 

4)  Buy some lightweight Hydrocal or Polyfilla

 

5)  Buy some black poster paint  (Ther Works is cheap)

 

6)  Go to your local garden centre adn but a couple of square metres of garden floss  that they use to protect plants in the winter.  It's sold from a roll by the metre and is cheap.

 

7)  Cut the floss into 4" squares.

 

8) Mix your Hydrocal/polyfilla and add some poster paint so that it's a dark colour  (This means that if any cracks show they won't be white)   Mke the mix fairly sloppy.

 

9)   Drop a handful of floos squares into the mix and stir them in well.

 

10)   Pull the squares out one by one and drpe them over the chicken wire especially the stapled edges.

 

11)   Try and put a second layer of floss on and smooth the hydrocal/polyfilla off and leave to dry overnight.

 

12)   The cover with your chosen scenic material using dilute PVA/ hairspray etc to stick it on.

 

As you will see from other replies there are many ways to achieve the same result and all have their pros and cons.  I've used this technique on 2 layouts now and it works well.  The advantage of Polyfilla/Hydrocal over plaster of Paris is that you get longer to work the material as it drys more slowly.

 

Have fun.

 

Jamie

[Jeff Smith]

Hi Michael - as you might expect there are several ways to achieve this. First a couple of questions:-

 

- is this a permanently sited layout where weight is less of a factor, or is it a portable layout which could benefit from lightweight construction?

 

- have you already installed the track bed or are you working from a flat baseboard?

 

Normal method of construction would be to cut a trackbed of the right size and shape from say 3/8" or 9mm ply, and support it on risers from the existing baseboard or baseboard frame. The risers could be from the same material with the ends profiled to match the embankment slope. You will probably need a riser every 6" or so. The profiled ends can have heavy duty cardboard strips or thin ply stuck across them. This should be painted or sealed then the surface finished with a filler of your choice. I rally like instant paper mache available for various general craft work. You mix with water into a paste and trowel it on. It dries rigid and very hard - about 5mm thick is usually enough. This can be drilled for trees, fence posts etc. Paint the surface dark brown or green and use Woodland Scenics ground cover. Paint white glue over the surface and sprinkle on. Finally spray with heavy duty hairspray. Beware of hairspray on lichen though as it goes white....

[gwrrob]

although they can tend to look a bit "bowling green" to me which isn't really the unkempt look Michael appears to be looking for.

 

I agree totally but I used them as a base to add more scenic material too very easily.There's quite a range of stuff that's readily available of quality not seen just a few years ago.

[The White Rabbit]

One advantage of using polystyrene sheets is that there's a solid base for trees, fence posts etc. The chicken wire method is certainly quick but I wouldn't use it [again] for anything other than a bare mountainside. 

 

The scenery handbook is (IMHO) a nice little book, it also gives you ideas as to what products are available, which is helpful. 

[michaelp]

Hi Michael - as you might expect there are several ways to achieve this. First a couple of questions:-

 

- is this a permanently sited layout where weight is less of a factor, or is it a portable layout which could benefit from lightweight construction?

 

- have you already installed the track bed or are you working from a flat baseboard?

 

Normal method of construction would be to cut a trackbed of the right size and shape from say 3/8" or 9mm ply, and support it on risers from the existing baseboard or baseboard frame. The risers could be from the same material with the ends profiled to match the embankment slope. You will probably need a riser every 6" or so. The profiled ends can have heavy duty cardboard strips or thin ply stuck across them. This should be painted or sealed then the surface finished with a filler of your choice. I rally like instant paper mache available for various general craft work. You mix with water into a paste and trowel it on. It dries rigid and very hard - about 5mm thick is usually enough. This can be drilled for trees, fence posts etc. Paint the surface dark brown or green and use Woodland Scenics ground cover. Paint white glue over the surface and sprinkle on. Finally spray with heavy duty hairspray. Beware of hairspray on lichen though as it goes white....

Hi Jeff,

 

The layout is permanent and no track has been laid in that section yet but will be laid on flat baseboard (9mm plywood)

[Jeff Smith]

Michael - personally I avoid using Pollyfiller or similar because it has no strength and is brittle as well as being heavy. Papier mache (Activa Celluclay from Amazon) is fantastic and dries to form an almost fibre-glass like shell but be careful of the price - one pound of grey in the US is about $7. One pound goes a long way.

[michaelp]

Michael - personally I avoid using Pollyfiller or similar because it has no strength and is brittle as well as being heavy. Papier mache (Activa Celluclay from Amazon) is fantastic and dries to form an almost fibre-glass like shell but be careful of the price - one pound of grey in the US is about $7. One pound goes a long way.

 

Thanks Jeff I will bear that in mind when I make a start.

[michaelp]

Thanks to all who took the time and trouble to post a reply and post photos.

 

Michael

[Jeff Smith]

Hi Michael - as you might expect there are several ways to achieve this. First a couple of questions:-

- is this a permanently sited layout where weight is less of a factor, or is it a portable layout which could benefit from lightweight construction?

- have you already installed the track bed or are you working from a flat baseboard?

Normal method of construction would be to cut a trackbed of the right size and shape from say 3/8" or 9mm ply, and support it on risers from the existing baseboard or baseboard frame. The risers could be from the same material with the ends profiled to match the embankment slope. You will probably need a riser every 6" or so. The profiled ends can have heavy duty cardboard strips or thin ply stuck across them. This should be painted or sealed then the surface finished with a filler of your choice. I rally like instant paper mache available for various general craft work. You mix with water into a paste and trowel it on. It dries rigid and very hard - about 5mm thick is usually enough. This can be drilled for trees, fence posts etc. Paint the surface dark brown or green and use Woodland Scenics ground cover. Paint white glue over the surface and sprinkle on. Finally spray with heavy duty hairspray. Beware of hairspray on lichen though as it goes white....

Here's a general shot using the above techniques - very lightweight.

[cromptonnut]

I have in the past used a product called "Hydrofibre" from E R Décor.  It's a European product but not sure of its current availability here.  It's basically, as it sounds, a fibre and glue powder that you mix with water into a paste and trowel on to where you want it.  Very similar to the stuff Jeff mentions.

[michaelp]

It's good to know that there is a variety of products and ideas to help with construction.

 

Thanks again all.

 

Michael

[GWRswindon101]

then again, there is a very chear and effective way to do it. You could just tape balls of paper onto your baseboars with masking tape, then paper mache over the top, and wait 2 or 3 days until it is dry. It sets rock hard, and then, the glue will soak ino the paper, and will harden the paper even more when you glue the foliage on the embankment.

 

[Riccarton Junction]

Interesting thread. I'm also brand new to modelling and as part of my first attempt at a layout I'm planning on a section of grassy embankment - about 4 feet long, perhaps jutting out 3 inches into the layout. The foam idea seems neat. I had assumed paper mache was still a common option but perhaps times have moved on. At the moment I'm looking for a method which doesn't incur too much expense and is relatively easy for someone new to modelling.

[TheQ]

I'll add an opposing voice to not using pollyfilla or the like, because if you add pva to the water, it sets to a nice hard shell quite thin and not too heavy. I tend to use J cloths over the hillsides soaked in the pollyfilla / pva / water mix, However you don't need to buy cloth, any old cotton based cloth would do like a pair of old trousers or an old towel or even curtains if they are cotton based.. 

 

Many of the "bandage" based products are a pollyfilla type material impregnating a cloth..

 

Oh you don't need to buy pollystyrene for hillsides, you can just scrounge if from packing materials, it's just more of a jigsaw to glue together before carving..

 

As for the shape of the hillside before coating , over the years I've used all the above methods, but unless I am need a hollow hillside, I use extruded polystyrene or Celotex or its equivalent now , it's just so much quicker and easier.

 

So my new baseboards are 3 inches of celotex or the like, topped by one or more layers of the same, all cut to shape. Then the edges are covered in 5-6mm ply to protect them, no plywood box beneath, then the top is covered in the cloth  / pollyfilla mix.. 

 

You don't need to buy pollystrene for hillsides on a base, you can just scrounge packing materials and glue the jigsaw together before carving..

 

Edited October 8, 2020 by TheQ

[ColinK]

I’ve started using sculptamold instead of plaster, its lighter and less messy.