RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted January 18, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2015 Hi folks Hattons are listing the new 21 ton hopper http://www.Hornby.com/shop/new-for-2015/wagons/br-21-ton-hopper-wagon-2.html Looks to me like Hornby have gone for the same diagram as the Parkside Dundas PC80 model - see http://www.parksidedundas.co.uk/acatalog/copy_of_LONDON___NORTH_EASTERN_RAILWAY.html Is this a correct assumption please? HAs LNER brake gear and extended brake handle. To run a train of hoppers on Abbotswood we will need a fitted head - were any of these wagons fitted? Also they are not roller bearing fitted - is that an issue for these wagons in the 70s? An alternative would of course be to build some Parkside Dundas PC77s - or add vacuum brakes to some older Dapol/Mainline hoppers Many thanks in advance Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) Hi folks Hattons are listing the new 21 ton hopper http://www.Hornby.com/shop/new-for-2015/wagons/br-21-ton-hopper-wagon-2.html Looks to me like Hornby have gone for the same diagram as the Parkside Dundas PC80 model - see http://www.parksidedundas.co.uk/acatalog/copy_of_LONDON___NORTH_EASTERN_RAILWAY.html Is this a correct assumption please? HAs LNER brake gear and extended brake handle. To run a train of hoppers on Abbotswood we will need a fitted head - were any of these wagons fitted? Also they are not roller bearing fitted - is that an issue for these wagons in the 70s? An alternative would of course be to build some Parkside Dundas PC77s - or add vacuum brakes to some older Dapol/Mainline hoppers Many thanks in advance Phil There weren't any fitted versions of these wagons; all the fitted ones I saw were of the BR welded style. The old Hornby-Dublo one (which I think Wrenn, not Mainline/Dapol re-released) was of this type, and was a reasonable model. If you must have a fitted head, then I'm afraid it's kit-building for you. I'm pretty certain many of these wagons had oil axleboxes until they were scrapped in the great post-Miners' Strike purge. I've just looked at P-D's site; they don't do a built-as-vac-fitted type. You'd have to carry out a small mod to the PC77s, replacing the two big angled supporting struts with four smaller ones, and fitting a vac-cylinder in one corner (see Mr Bartlett's photos); 'HOUSE COAL CONCENTRATION' transfers are available from Cambridge Custom Transfers. Quite a large proportion carried these. Edited January 19, 2015 by Fat Controller Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Entered service 1970s Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted January 18, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2015 Many thanks Brian Have you got shares in Parkside Dundas? hee hee The Coal concentration hoppers were bauxite - was that a doppelganger livery or were they welded/fitted? Cheers Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 18, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2015 Phil, I don\t think the LNER version with the long brake handle worked anywhere out of ER territory(and then were mainly in the north east I believe) - as such they're ideal to go with an NE allocated K1 so Hornby have done something quite interesting in matching a new wagon in their catalogue to a new loco in that catalogue. I can't recall ever seeing one with a long brake handle anywhere on Western territory although you never know, the odd one or two might have made it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted January 19, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 19, 2015 Phil, I don\t think the LNER version with the long brake handle worked anywhere out of ER territory(and then were mainly in the north east I believe) - as such they're ideal to go with an NE allocated K1 so Hornby have done something quite interesting in matching a new wagon in their catalogue to a new loco in that catalogue. I can't recall ever seeing one with a long brake handle anywhere on Western territory although you never know, the odd one or two might have made it. Hi Mike They were to be seen mixed in with the BR version on the LMR in the 60s and 70s. I can recall then going through Bedford when trainspotting, their high handbrake look strange. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted January 19, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2015 Thanks All Paul's wonderful web site would be a good guide am sure - but for some reason cant get on to this collection at the moment it asks for a password. But the thumbnail it shows is of one off the North Eastern piste at Briton Ferry if I am reading it correctly So still hunting! Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted January 19, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2015 And a direct web search for pictures has them at Toton and Derby, which would seem to fit in with Clive's memories. In deference to SM then it seems like we can get away with mixing some in with a PD fitted head and perhaps some modded Dapols Cheers Phil 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Many thanks Brian Have you got shares in Parkside Dundas? hee hee The Coal concentration hoppers were bauxite - was that a doppelganger livery or were they welded/fitted? Cheers Phil They were both welded and fitted, and were built with roller-bearing axleboxes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 19, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2015 Thanks All Paul's wonderful web site would be a good guide am sure - but for some reason cant get on to this collection at the moment it asks for a password. But the thumbnail it shows is of one off the North Eastern piste at Briton Ferry if I am reading it correctly So still hunting! Phil I think the collection shows at least one at Newport. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 The wagon modelled by Hornby is E270706 it is pictured in David Larkins Working Wagons vol 1 (1968-1973) on page 18 at Kirkby Stephen in 1970. Also in that book, and its companion vol 2 (1974-1979), there are four long handled E prefix wagons seen at Hoo Jn Also in those books there are pictures of B prefix wagons with long handles at Bristol Westbury and Radstock, cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Anyone looking for a bit of variety could have a bit of fun with these, as there were several manufacturers and each had different variants of stanchions, handrails etc. Tatlow's LNER wagons part 4A by Wild Swan has a table of such matters on p90 along with some helpful snaps. Thinking about it the excellent Parkside kit might be a better place to start if you were intending to chop and hack! John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted January 19, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2015 Thanks for sorting the website access Paul Brilliant photos as always - and as other posters have pointed out examples in S Wales - so good to go Looks like there were 1/146 welded hoppers as per PD PC77 kits that were built as fitted too so those will be fine for fitted heads Thanks folks! Theres a trainload of Hornbys on the way from Liverpool as its unfitted running to H4 timings limited t0 35 mph so may take a while to get here... Phil 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45125 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Phil, I don\t think the LNER version with the long brake handle worked anywhere out of ER territory(and then were mainly in the north east I believe) - as such they're ideal to go with an NE allocated K1 so Hornby have done something quite interesting in matching a new wagon in their catalogue to a new loco in that catalogue. I can't recall ever seeing one with a long brake handle anywhere on Western territory although you never know, the odd one or two might have made it. Mike, more than the odd one got through, Briton Ferry and Newport docks where common locations for them. Regards Al Taylor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted January 19, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2015 Phil, I don\t think the LNER version with the long brake handle worked anywhere out of ER territory(and then were mainly in the north east I believe) - as such they're ideal to go with an NE allocated K1 so Hornby have done something quite interesting in matching a new wagon in their catalogue to a new loco in that catalogue. I can't recall ever seeing one with a long brake handle anywhere on Western territory although you never know, the odd one or two might have made it. Cheers Mike Am sure you are right re Hornby's policy! Looks like there might have been enough around to form the basis for us though Thanks as always Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Thanks for sorting the website access Paul Brilliant photos as always - and as other posters have pointed out examples in S Wales - so good to go Looks like there were 1/146 welded hoppers as per PD PC77 kits that were built as fitted too so those will be fine for fitted heads Thanks folks! Theres a trainload of Hornbys on the way from Liverpool as its unfitted running to H4 timings limited t0 35 mph so may take a while to get here... Phil You could always put a fitted head of Banana vans on, as they used to do at the time on unfitted mineral trains in South Wales. I believe Welsh group 'Man' did a song about it... Edited January 20, 2015 by Fat Controller 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted January 20, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2015 Nice idea Brian - have a couple of rechassied Wrenn bodies lurking I reckon that will be in the next Bachmann announcements too P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 You could always put a fitted head of Banana vans on, as they used to do at the time on unfitted mineral trains in South Wales. The fitted head can also include 16t mins, clayfits, highfits, tubes and vanfits, all common in the area. I do agree a good quality R-T-R fitted 21t hopper would be welcome, as would a good quality 21t min, cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 The wagon modelled by Hornby is E270706 it is pictured in David Larkins Working Wagons vol 1 (1968-1973) on page 18 at Kirkby Stephen in 1970. Also in that book, and its companion vol 2 (1974-1979), there are four long handled E prefix wagons seen at Hoo Jn Also in those books there are pictures of B prefix wagons with long handles at Bristol Westbury and Radstock, cheers Ex-NE routes at the turn of the decade; sounds like the basic ground rules will support a half dozen scuttling about in the Waverley route foothills..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 How far back can you go with these? I know its stupid, i just thought the BR 21T hopper was earlier than 1970s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 How far back can you go with these? I know its stupid, i just thought the BR 21T hopper was earlier than 1970s. It was; it was the rebuilds with just two side stanchions that were post-1970. The vac-braked ones appeared around 1959-60, I believe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wibble Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 How far back can you go with these? I know its stupid, i just thought the BR 21T hopper was earlier than 1970s. These wagons appeared as early as 1936, with 2000 of them built for the LNER by private companies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Has anyone else took theirs out of the box and found the wheel won't turn as they catch on the hopper pans? Otherwise seems nice on first inspection? Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted January 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2015 Solved the problem of the wheel catching, converted it to EM! Problem then is the wheel catches the brake mechanism, so that needed gluing to the axleguard and thinning. The moulded coupling block is a £$%^&*&*& to remove neatly though. One of mine was missing the brake lever and ratchet from one side, soon sorted by my local shop. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete55 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Solved the problem of the wheel catching, converted it to EM! Problem then is the wheel catches the brake mechanism, so that needed gluing to the axleguard and thinning. The moulded coupling block is a £$%^&*&*& to remove neatly though. One of mine was missing the brake lever and ratchet from one side, soon sorted by my local shop. Mike I just thinned the brake mechanism to around half its original thickness. Agreed about the coupling block removal....and my brake levers fell off whilst removing that block! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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