Jump to content

West Riding Terminus- Halifax Powell Street


Recommended Posts

Hi Pete,

 

 Great to see another of Dave's locos about to come back into service. It looks very much at home in that shed. As to the name problem, that was something Dave and I discussed at great length when he was trying to christen Tetleys Mills 3. I personally can't get on with made up names - which is one reason for modelling a prototype this time- and Dave was reluctant to make something up this time too, so we were discussing "might have beens" in the West Riding area. How about picking a real place where the arrival of the railway might have caused the population to take off, as happened all over the country?  It doesn't matter that much what the geography was either, judging by some of the schemes that did go ahead in the region.

I think geography does come into it if choosing a real location where a line might have been built. I had this problem with Greenfield when someone suggested I move the actual junction a little further down the line seeing as it was a nuisance to me!  Knowing the topography of the area, such a junction below Greenfield would have been impossible without incurring impossible gradients and a massive amount of tunnelling, which is why it was where it was. Nevertheless, I do think mapping out a fictional line properly would make for interesting study seeing as it would determine scenery on the layout.

Edited by coachmann
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think geography does come into it if choosing a real location where a line might have been built. I had this problem with Greenfield when someone suggested I move the actual junction a little further down the line seeing as it was a nuisance to me!  Knowing the topography of the area, such a junction below Greenfield would have been impossible without incurring impossible gradients and a massive amount of tunnelling, which is why it was where it was. Nevertheless, I do think mapping out a fictional line properly would make for interesting study seeing as it would determine scenery on the layout.

I had the gradient into Bradford Exchange in mind Larry. I agree some things would be impossible, but there were other examples of significant geographical challenges being taken up, sometimes at great expense and to little purpose. Queensbury lines?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold

I hope the OP and others won't mind this link to a previous thread being included here as there is some additional information and modelling opportunities that may be of use;

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/47426-midland-route-that-never-was-dewsbury-to-bradford/

Link to post
Share on other sites

There were many obscure lines in the area. The one that springs to mind is the line to Stainland & Holywell Green! A village with its own terminus, I believe the viaduct at Greetland is still standing. The line closed in 1959 but if Beeching hadn't got the job who's to say the station might no still be in use today.
Either way it would make a great layout.
images-here  

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold

There were many obscure lines in the area. The one that springs to mind is the line to Stainland & Holywell Green! A village with its own terminus, I believe the viaduct at Greetland is still standing. The line closed in 1959 but if Beeching hadn't got the job who's to say the station might no still be in use today.

Either way it would make a great layout.

images-here

 In addition to the above post and link, this one also covers other 'lost railways' in West Yorkshire.

 

http://lostrailwayswestyorkshire.co.uk

Link to post
Share on other sites

In addition to the above post and link, this one also covers other 'lost railways' in West Yorkshire.

 

http://lostrailwayswestyorkshire.co.uk

That's a great site, came in very handy for research on my Queensbury project!

It might sound stupid but a search on Facebook can help too. (A very large percentage of internet users post all kinds of stuff on there). I found a group calling themselves   " TheQueensburyLines " Pictures on there that don't come up when  conducting a Google search!

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold

That's a great site, came in very handy for research on my Queensbury project!

It might sound stupid but a search on Facebook can help too. (A very large percentage of internet users post all kinds of stuff on there). I found a group calling themselves   " TheQueensburyLines " Pictures on there that don't come up when  conducting a Google search!

 

It's a wonderful site as it really does illustrate how much railway and corresponding infrastructure there used to be in this part of Yorkshire and what has been lost.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd be inclined to make the approach double track, even if beyond the scenic break the line goes single into the fiddle yard.

 

You'd lose the carriage sidings headshunt (if I'm reading your plan correctly), but the addition of an crossover (marked in red) and changing the double slip at the approach to a single one, creates, I feel, a more protypical station throat.

 

A station this size in the area contempleted, would be more likely to be double track than single.

 

Also a real placename, with a station suffix, sounds much better (to me at least) and more convincing than something totally ficticious.

post-6880-0-11544800-1421787729.jpg

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel like naming my layout is akin to naming a child!! (I don't have any children!). Some great links there thanks Russ (4630). There are a few favorites but I want to study the Midland route and 'lost railways of West Yorkshire' site before deciding.

 

 

 

 I personally can't get on with made up names - which is one reason for modelling a prototype this time

 

A fair comment Gilbert, i'm sure in a layout or two's time when I've improved my skills and have more room I'll go the prototypical route. I'd love to model Southport Chapel Street in the 1930's with its mix of steam and electric traction and the MPD which I have very fond memories of from the 'Steamport' railway museum. 

 

 

 

I'd be inclined to make the approach double track, even if beyond the scenic break the line goes single into the fiddle yard.

 

Pete; sorry I wasn't very clear. There are 2 approach tracks which are the same as the directions that you have labelled- nearest the top is the departure and below is the arrivals. They merge just off scene;

 

post-21828-0-84366800-1421794344_thumb.jpg

 

As for some minor progress this evening;

 

 I have cut a slot in the baseboard for a kadee uncoupler magnet which opens the couplings nicely. This one is located where the dummy catch point will be ahead of the carriage sidings. This will enable me to 'delay uncouple' and shunt coaches into the sidings;

 

post-21828-0-19239800-1421794368_thumb.jpg

 

I also added droppers to the first bit of scenic track and started to space the sleepers with my high tech custom tool (!);

 

post-21828-0-46970700-1421794544_thumb.jpg

 

I have only done the two very short lengths which will protrude from the tunnel mouth but I think it does help.

 

post-21828-0-65543800-1421794620_thumb.jpg

 

Custom tool;

 

post-21828-0-61594300-1421794703_thumb.jpg

 

And finally a curious onlooker peers in;

 

post-21828-0-59922400-1421794730_thumb.jpg

 

 

Thanks for the input people, it's a great help.

 

 

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

I won't labour the point as it's your layout, but I'd seriously reconsider the design of your station throat. I can't think of an example where a double track line, in the steam era, is funnelled into a double slip and then spreads out into the platforms. It just constrains train movements.

 

Anyway, enough said.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Although it is unlikely that the prototype would force both up and down trains through the one crossing, hence preventing simultaneous arrivals and departure, for the operation of the model it is of little consequence as such simultaneous movements would be prevented by the need for up and down lines to merge prior to entry to the fiddle yard. Of course there are ways around that, and it might be that future expansion of the layout will allow a longer run of separate up and down lines. 

 

Thus my preference would be to plan for the future and allow for simultaneous arrivals and departures. One possibility would be to make both the existing up and down lines two-directional, with the assumption that one or more of the crossovers linking them is off-stage.

 

Against that must be balanced the fact that the double slip is already in place and will make nicely complex station throat...

 

Ian

Edited by clecklewyke
Link to post
Share on other sites

That's much better. I take it that you have retained the double slip which linked the up and down lines in your first plan? I can understand why - it's there - but it would be better to replace it with a single slip as one of the routes with the double is redundant. You might be able to re-use the double slip elsewhere.

 

Now that's looking a lot like how I imagine the proposed Midland station at Halifax would have looked! But you are looking for a GN/LNWR station around Bradford, so you are really thinking very much along the lines I did when planning Bradford NW. It looks as though you'll be beating me to it!

 

Incidentally, purely by chance I was browsing through the the Dec 73 issue of RM, in which there is an article "Just Supposing" by Arthur Whitehead, in which he considers the modelling possibilities presented by the Midland's WR ambitions. The plans he offered are based on possible Midland stations in Dewsbury (pre-dating MMRC's "Dewsbury Midland" by thirty years or so) but also suggesting either a Midland through station in Huddersfield or a terminus at Halifax. PM me if you'd like a scan. This article was the one that set me thinking about modelling possibilities in the WR but I prefer the LNWR to the Midland, so in the 80s I did build a "Bradford North Western" in OO, using CJF's "Minories" plan. I stupidly gave it away. I wonder what happened to it?

 

Ian

Edited by clecklewyke
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Great, I'm back on track then! 

 

I fortunately only placed the double slip temporarily in position so I will change it; I love living 10 minutes from Hattons! 

 

Unfortunately my railway room is only 3m x 2m so I'm a little limited on the pointwork-to-platform length ratio. I think, with close coupling, I can just fit a tender loco and 6 mkI's although this means having the buffers pretty much to the end wall. I think i'll model closed gates and doors at the entrance/exits to the platforms and have some form of canopies to mask the sudden station end! 

 

I would go the Midland route in Halifax but I have some concerns; my shed is a typical LNWR northlight design (so wouldn't appear in a Midland area?) and I would like to run a mix of former LMS and LNER stock... I was thinking of a fictitious LNWR extension from Huddersfield to Halifax on a similar route to the A629- and found a few appropriate street names (Halifax Powell Street?) but it wouldn't answer my GN influence. Running rites from the Dewsbury direction?   

 

I couldn't steal Bradford North Western... ;-)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe I didn't spot the period you are modelling, but if it happens to be in early BR days, could it not be be a route built by the LNWR but transferred to the Eastern Region as happened on from Diggle to Huddersfield. This might allow an influx of GNR locos but would certainly introduce ex LNER coaching stock to the line on a shared-revenue basis.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold

 

 

I would go the Midland route in Halifax but I have some concerns; my shed is a typical LNWR northlight design (so wouldn't appear in a Midland area?) and I would like to run a mix of former LMS and LNER stock... I was thinking of a fictitious LNWR extension from Huddersfield to Halifax on a similar route to the A629- and found a few appropriate street names (Halifax Powell Street?) but it wouldn't answer my GN influence. Running rites from the Dewsbury direction?   

 

 

 

Sounds great to me.  I used to work just round the corner from the real Powell Street in Halifax and my partner still does.

 

If you need any photos of the typical buildings of the period in the immediate surrounding area for possible use on the layout or if you're planning a back scene, let me know and I'll see what I can do.  I live in Huddersfield but visit Halifax regularly.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for all the comments gents, it's a great way to learn.

 

Chimer- speak now or forever hold your peace! Seriously though thanks.

 

Russ- that's a great offer which I'll no doubt take you up on. I must admit I have some research to do as I've never been to Halifax. I will try to get a flavour of the town but it will still be ficticious (the layout will be predominantly in a cutting).

 

Off to hattons after work tomorrow :-)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...