EHertsGER Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Ok, so I'm stupid...well, not that stupid, as I bought a Shawplan roof fan for the LIMA Class 31. That was the smart bit... Now I have it in my hands I can; a) futz about with it until it looks sort of what its supposed to be, or b) ask the experts (RMWeb-land) if anyone has done it before and so 'how did you do it...?', or C) ask where I can find the instructions, as they are certainly not in the (very small) packet... So, over to you...please? Best, Marcus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-e Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I've never done one but this site has some images although the fan should fit under the grill once assembled not on top like the photos https://shawplan.wordpress.com/extreme-etchings/ if you go to this site and scroll down theres a good shot of what the finished article looks like http://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/model_omwb60.html And this thread may have some hints. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/79581-extremet-etchings-fans-how-to-fit-them/ Looking at their site you should have this?? What I think you do is assemble the Grill as 1 part (A(thetop left part below with 2 lines across) then part C then D) then the Fan as the other with the parts numbered 1-12 they stack on top of each other with the Cap on top. The blades of the fan will need angled as per the photos. I think this is right but someone whos built one will be along shortly to confirm...... Class 31 Fan set comprisesEEDP31-00(A) Roof Fan AssemblyEEDP31-00B (Roof Fan Ring Mount (Hornby Model Only)EEDP31-00© Roof Fan MeshEEDP31-00(D) Roof Fan Ring Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHertsGER Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 Steve Thank you for that guidance - I have digested all that has been said and feel I can, at least, assemble the kit. Fitting the fan into the body will have to wait until I decide on how the loco will be powered - wholesale transplant of Hornby chassis or fitting Hornby running gear to LIMA frame - so internals will need to be planned... And then there is the Penbits sprung bogies to come...some long way off... These things take time, so for now I will add the grille! Best, Marcus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHertsGER Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 ...which leave me with trying to figure out how to fit the grille assembly to the body. As far as I see things the layers assembled in the sequences Steve (above) so kindly revealed to me produce a grille that is some 1mm sor so thick with a small lip around the lower edge (I haven't built it yet, just set it out on the table and peered at it).My conclusion, therefore, is that I must open a hole equal to the diameter of the raised portion of the assembly and glue it into the body from the underside, the raised part being the thickness of the plastic and the top being flush with the outer body, the lower lip being the gluable area mating with the inner bodywork...Clear? As mud. Oh, dear...Best,Marcus EDIT: I think the above approach is probably the one to take using the Hornby Superdetail body and not the Railroad body - see my adventures below... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalKat Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Have a look here .... https://shawplan.wordpress.com/extreme-etchings/ ... scroll down a bit and there are piccies of the grille fitted. Obviously the fan goes under the grille! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGC Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 In the past I've wondered about this as well. My problem wasn't making the fan, but how to mount it under the grill, and the answer from an expert was to make a bracket out of something like plasticard and make sure it's painted black! You can also, if you want. make a circular section to go round the fan that stops the rest of the internals of the diesel being visible. Hope that helps. Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHertsGER Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 In pondering the fitting of the fan my mind had wandered off towards a suitable diameter tube of, say plastruct, if such a diameter is produced, or rolled plasticard (old felt pen, wrap it around and dunk in hot kettle type approach) fabrication, then square off one end at a suitable depth. Mount the fan on a piece of flat plasticard and secure to squared-off end, shaping the other, upper end to mate with the roof curvature... The roof details in one of Steve's links shows this is the arrangement on a 31 anyway... Well lets see what happens next, shall we...? Best, Marcus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHertsGER Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 So, we had a go at installing the grille assembly in the locomotive body today. By way of background, its a Hornby Railroad body, so I made sure I bought the right kit! The one for the Airfix/LIMA body...obvious, huh? First off the old grille has to go - pretty easy stuff; drill some holes and trim it out to the inner edge of the securing ring (which will be replaced by EEDP31-00(D) Roof Fan Ring in Steve's pics, above). Then take the lower grille frame (EEDP31-00B with the two bars running across it - for the Airfix/LIMA/Hornby Railroad body the other part on the etch is not needed) and roll it so it takes on the roof profile. I used an old marker pen of a close enough diameter and rolled it gently on a soft pile of cloth (dishcloth folded over). Once happy it matches the roof profile - and persevere with this as it is important to match perfectly - more anon. Once rolled I placed it on the roof aperture and, sure it was sitting centrally, drew around it with a fine sharpie. The inner edge of the resultant circle is the size of the final 'hole'. Then with great care and patience open out the fan aperture until this part is an intereference fit in the 'hole'. Placing the rolled part in the 'hole' sit it so it is just a tiny bit below the edge of the hole - and I mean about the thickness of the grille and ring combined. Once snug, run some fine superglue around the inner edge from inside the body (I used Hafix superglue) and leave well alone. Time for a cup of tea... Once the tea has been enjoyed and the football results checked etc run some more superglue around the inner edge of the aperture on the outer ring of the part you just installed. Let it go just a bit tacky and then install the grille itself. This grille is wafer thin so be careful - I chose not to roll it for fear of mucking it up. If its snags anywhere, dress it with a fine file as the fit need not be perfect, but keep tolerances close. The tacky superglue will grab the fine mesh and it will sit down onto the previous ring. Hold for a while just to make sure, then go back to the kitchen to wash the teacup etc. Finally, roll the securing ring EEDP31-00(D) to the roof profile as before and install it over the grille with another fine bead of superglue - tacky again if you like, but the rolled profile should be acccurate enough to have it sit down properly. That's it for the grille and rings - I'll post a pic tomorrow, but really it looks just the same as the pic on the Shawplan site - an encouraging result, I hope! I'm not sure why the 'other' ring is included - it says for the Hornby body only, which is a bit confusing (to me) as I have a Hornby Railroad body, but I used the Airfix/LIMA kit. Am I right? Now for the fan... Best, Marcus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHertsGER Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 Ok, here it is, so far... OK, so I had some practice doing a few BLMA fans in N Scale on GP45s... Best, Marcus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted January 26, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 26, 2015 There are Hornby Brush 2's and then there are Hornby Brush 2's which were Lima. The grille pack for the former includes an infill piece as Hornby managed to make the grille aperture too big. So basically the older models are more accurate in this respect. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHertsGER Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 So, next, the fan... I took a look at the bits involved, to say nothing of the Shawplan site and the references Steve kindly gave on the subject of both the kit and the prototype - see the attached photos. All the parts are numbered and so one would be inclined to assemble in numerical order. Taking a breath I looked again and decided that assembling the two fan blade parts as one would be the best place to start in case I made a mess of it. That way I would not have to take a whole load of layers apart. So, the two fan blades first. My approach was to align the two with some wire through the small holes and solder together. Once that is done, the wires provide the alignment for all the other layers, assembled in numerical order, bottom to top so long as the numbers are all on the same side. I packed them all together, clamped the whole lot in a vice and gave it all a quick once over with a blowtorch as the mass of brass can quickly absorb heat and ruin your nicely fluxed joint. Anyway, this is it so far... No idea why they are upside down...out of focus, yes - pathetic photographer... I have also been mucking about with creating a plasticard tube for the fan internals, but so far not much success; end of day tinkering, so not surprised, really. I also started wondering about 3/4" ABS pipe as a possible internal 'tube' but am not sure what to do with the other 7' 11 1/2" of it (one of the benefits of living in the USA is being able to understand how long something is...my wife appreciates that sort of thing)... Best, Marcus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted January 28, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 28, 2015 If you stack the fan components in numerical order mounted on a 2mm axle or drill bit fitted into a piece of wood, alignment is assured. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGC Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Thanks for posting your efforts here, Marcus. I have a few diesels with fans to do at some point, and have looked at them but have yet to bite the bullet. Now I've seen your efforts, I may re-order the planned scheme of work (does that makes it sound as though I'm organised and know what I'm doing? How easily some people are fooled!) and bring those locos nearer the front of the queue. Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHertsGER Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 If you stack the fan components in numerical order mounted on a 2mm axle or drill bit fitted into a piece of wood, alignment is assured. Mike. Quite so, Mike. I looked at that approach and still have something along those lines in mind as that hole in the middle could well be tapped and a small bolt used to secure the fan in/on its mounting. Watch this space, as my attempt at making that tube I mentioned seems to be going well.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
33040 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Rather than making a tube, it might be worth checking plumbing suppliers, DIY outlets, etc.. for something with a suitable diameter. Polyplumb is plastic piping with a diameter of 15mm and 22mm - 3m of 22mm cost £7.49 at Wickes (other store and other brands of plastic pipe available). There are also MDPE end stops of 25mm diameter I have not tried using these materials for fan ducts inside locos but have used them for wagon loads (large sewer pipes, etc.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHertsGER Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 Rather than making a tube, it might be worth checking plumbing suppliers, DIY outlets, etc.. for something with a suitable diameter. Polyplumb is plastic piping with a diameter of 15mm and 22mm - 3m of 22mm cost £7.49 at Wickes (other store and other brands of plastic pipe available). There are also MDPE end stops of 25mm diameter I have not tried using these materials for fan ducts inside locos but have used them for wagon loads (large sewer pipes, etc.) I'm sure there is a diameter suitable out there for all kinds of locos - you are absolutley right. I wonder about PVC, however (good ol' epoxy or superglue should hold it) as ABS should be OK with styrene type solvents (Plastruct solvent?) One other area to consider is the unions that link the pipes - small sections of tube that do not require just shy of 3m of pipe lying about the garage afterwards! Best, Marcus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted January 29, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 29, 2015 I'm sure there is a diameter suitable out there for all kinds of locos - you are absolutley right. I wonder about PVC, however (good ol' epoxy or superglue should hold it) as ABS should be OK with styrene type solvents (Plastruct solvent?) One other area to consider is the unions that link the pipes - small sections of tube that do not require just shy of 3m of pipe lying about the garage afterwards! Best, Marcus TBH, you'll be as well off curving a bit of 10 thou plastic card, lot thinner wall, and cheaper than 3m of pipe. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHertsGER Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 Ha! Mike, it is as if you read my mind - as well as the comment about making 'the tube', above. So here it is - two layers of 30 thou plasticard wrapped around a metal spoon handle and dunked in the kettle, then under running cold water - you know, just the way Slater's used to tell us in the instructions for plasticard! The two layers were bonded with solvent to create the result shown below. For the 31 project the inside diameter is 17mm and, with 60 thou walls, the outside diameter is 20mm. The tube is way over-long to accommodate either error, or possibly a mounting bracket going across midway so the tube goes down into the depths of the bodywork. The latter is work in progress, but this is 'the tube' so far... Things will have to wait a while as I have yet to sort out opening up the headcode box for the glazing and finish off the cab front handrails. That is planned for the weekend, after which it should be ready for primer.The whole project is going to be 5634 (31 210 in later life) as she was somewhere in the mists of my memories - no idea if I ever saw her (despite much lurking at Broxbourne and points Hertford-bound) but as a Stratford engine, she was most likely to have wandered up the Hertford Branch at some point, so there it is... So in addressing the paint issue, I am planning to leave 'the tube' open at the end, though attached in its final form to the body and add the fan and mount after the insides of the tube have blended with the bodywork. More anon... Best, Marcus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHertsGER Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 And so, 'the tube' profiled and located inside the locomotive body - but not fixed yet. I'm still pondering how deep it should go into the body, taking account of the motorizing and so on - The current thought is that it should be no deeper than the depth required to sit the fan where it should be. The fan can then sit on the flat base at the bottom of the tube... Best, Marcus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHertsGER Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 Thinking about 'the tube', in retrospect I think I should have added 'the tube' to the body beneath the final sized 'hole' before fitting the grille to get a nice clean joint between body and tube....but we live and learn.. Best, Marcus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHertsGER Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 All of which got me thinking - again - about 'the 'ole'. Adding to this the threads about remotorizing the 31 using the Hornby chassis block (non exploding variety) led me to offer this as a second way of making 'the tube'/'the 'ole'. As we just have to make an 'ole for the fan and that it will probably be no more than 6-7mm deep, perhaps another approach is to laminate several layers of, say, 80 thou plasticard together in a sandwich that fits inside the loco body. If we are to use the Hornby chassis the way Jim S-W and others have suggested we should make two of these. One should be to provide the tapping points for the Hornby chassis at the non fan (#2?) end. The other should be long enough along the body to provide these tapping points and cover the underside of the fan aperture ('ole'). Once the basic opening in the old grill has been penetrated and cleared to the edge of the existing securing ring, profile the laminates to the roof and secure underneath. What we should have by this point is the tapping points at one end and the tapping points at the other plus a blank underneath the fan grill aperture, all nicely bonded to the body. It might be wise to do this before we add protruding wires from all the little handrails we are going to add as well... Now, once we have the handrails added, open out the fan aperture to fit the Shawplan grill as described above. This time, due to the laminate thickness we already have the walls of the 'tube' going into the body in to whch the fan will sit. As the laminate sits under the grille aperture and we are opening out the whole lot, the side walls will be flush with the eventual diameter of the securing ring giving us a nice tidy fan duct. Underneath we should have a nice flat base to the laminate to which to secure our piece of plasticard with the fan attached. No pics, for which I apologise, but this is a theoretical approach and one that will only be tested with the next 31 project (for I have found I like spiffing up LIMA/Railroad bodies etc.) I hope the above provides food for thought. Lets see if it works for 37s and 47s too... Cynics might also add this is the ideal revenge on anyone who won't let us borrow a spoon and the kettle to roll our tube. Lots of nice plasticard shavings in the carpet on profiling those laminates. Doghouse? Me? Well not yet... Best, Marcus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hayes Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I like the idea with the tube, that's prety nifty. I wonder if anyone has ever motorised a fan as in the Heljan 0 models Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHertsGER Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 I like the idea with the tube, that's prety nifty. I wonder if anyone has ever motorised a fan as in the Heljan 0 models That should be pretty easy - not the clumsy way Hornby did it. i've been off to Nigel Lawton's site (nigellawton009.com) in search of small motors. Now you've got me thinking... ...and have come up with this scribble: ...a dedicated motor driving the fan and taking its power from the programmable DCC module, enabling it to idle or rotate while the locomotive is stationary etc. I might just have a go... Best, Marcus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajaxjones Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 You can get 4mm pager motors, instead of going for gears/wheels etc. why not a plastic fan wheel on the end of the pager motor , place it at an angle and use the air it drives to in turn drive the fan. A fanfan drive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHertsGER Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 You can get 4mm pager motors, instead of going for gears/wheels etc. why not a plastic fan wheel on the end of the pager motor , place it at an angle and use the air it drives to in turn drive the fan. A fanfan drive. The line to add appalling puns on the word 'fan' seems to be forming here... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.