BlueRail Trains - Bluetooth Locomotive Control

[rgmichel]

Bluerailtrains sent me an email that might be on interest:  http://bluerailtrains.com/

 

Hello from BlueRail Trains.

Sorry it's been so long since our last correspondence. This week our first plugin board is in FCC testing. When we emerge from FCC, we will be able obtain a board ETA date and confirm pricing from the manufacturer. I will share that information as soon as I have it. In the past, manufacturing has been a 4-5 week experience. In the meantime we've been test operating the board in as wide a variety of locos as we can and it is performing admirably. The control app has been getting heavily tested by Bachmann E-Z App users, is performing well, and has been receiving weekly updates and improvements.

As board release date approaches, it becomes important for us to understand where our potential board users live (US, Canada, UK, Europe, Australia, NZ etc) and what the volumes are in each area, so we can make decisions and arrangements for certification and sales outside the US. Those of you who have indicated you are outside of the US/Canada may be receiving a follow-up email sometime soon regarding sales in your area. If you did not indicate your location when you submitted your form, you may be receiving an email asking you to update your general location (for our planning purposes).

When I forward you information on our final release date, you will also be given an opportunity to confirm your interest in our first board. We will be manufacturing 800 of our first board with priority given to the people on this mailing list.

Thank you for your interest in model train technology.

[Nile_Griffith]

Posted really for those who have been following the thread and might well be interested in acquiring the new BlueRail board.

 

BlueRail are setting up a database of all those interested in buying the new Bluetooth control board on first release. Understandably for a U.S. based manufacturer there are certain processes and routes that have to be gone through before approval is granted for sale within Europe. I won't admit to being incredibly knowledgeable on the subject, But it would seem that BlueRail in an attempt to keep costs in line and particularly those costs to UK modellers realistic. Are inviting interested parties to lodge their name with them in hope of working out what financially will be the best way of making the product available over here at the early stages of release.

 

http://bluerailtrains.com/blue-horse/

 

Many thanks.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Note that BlueRail Trains will be releasing their own (free) BlueRail control app, which they say will be more comprehensively featured than the quite basic Bachmann E-Z App, providing more motor adjustment and more control over functions.

 

The Bachmann E-Z App is very simple and currently geared more towards toy train operation.

 

Bachmann E-Z app in action.....

 

What's neat - March 2016 column | Model railroad tips | Model Railroad Hobbyist | MRH

 

 

 

MRH page 44 onwards.....  http://mrhpub.com/2016-03-mar/online/

 

 

 

 

.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Ron Ron Ron

[Nile_Griffith]

Note that BlueRail Trains will be releasing their own (free) BlueRail control app, which they say will be more comprehensively featured than the quite basic Bachmann E-Z App, providing more motor adjustment and more control over functions.

 

The Bachmann E-Z App is very simple and currently geared more towards toy train operation.

 

Bachmann E-Z app in action.....

 

What's neat - March 2016 column | Model railroad tips | Model Railroad Hobbyist | MRH

 

 

 

MRH page 44 onwards.....  http://mrhpub.com/2016-03-mar/online/

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

Yes am in anticipation of what BlueRail's App will look like. What I am particularly looking forward to seeing, is if someone will write a software package with the ability to being run from a Bluetooth capable laptop, such as a MacBook or from a tablet PC.

[rgmichel]

The new board at http://bluerailtrains.com/blue-horse/ is quite large at 28 mm x 58.6 mm with an extra 5mm required for the wiring harness.  It will plug into an 8-pin dcc ready locomotive, or drive a non-dcc loco as long as the chassis/wheels are isolated.  Sound is mentioned on the web page; unsurprisingly as an add on rather than using the existing sound of an existing dcc sound board.  The board is capable of powering a locomotive with 2 amp draw maximum.  Interestingly, it is possible to fire the board with batteries and/or the track.  So, with dirty track, the board pulls power from the battery as necessary, but it cannot charge a battery.

[Nile_Griffith]

The new board at http://bluerailtrains.com/blue-horse/ is quite large at 28 mm x 58.6 mm with an extra 5mm required for the wiring harness.  It will plug into an 8-pin dcc ready locomotive, or drive a non-dcc loco as long as the chassis/wheels are isolated.  Sound is mentioned on the web page; unsurprisingly as an add on rather than using the existing sound of an existing dcc sound board.  The board is capable of powering a locomotive with 2 amp draw maximum.  Interestingly, it is possible to fire the board with batteries and/or the track.  So, with dirty track, the board pulls power from the battery as necessary, but it cannot charge a battery.

 

 

I'm kind of happy to cut a new manufacturer some slack when it comes to the launch of a new product, especially when it comes to electronics. I can remember a time when there was a question over the size of some DCC chips, but product life, development and customer base has seen a gradual reduction in physical size, so it really isn't beyond the wit of man to see that BlueRail may well be able to implement a reduction in physical size in the future, although by nature of the technology itself any Bluetooth antenna is going to be bound by certain size criteria's. If I do have a concern it's that the control board is only available with an eight pin plug. Considering that most of Bachmann UK's output seems to be configured for twenty one pin working and that even Hornby release their sapphire decoder with a twenty one pin to eight pin adapter. I can't help but feel they might have missed a beat on this. I'm not up to speed on what is the common NMRA plug version stateside but I would have thought it similar to here in the UK.

[Oakydoke]

21pin decoders are almost unheard of in the US.

In fact they were non-standard (NMRA) for quite a while, until finally adopted for legacy reasons only a few years ago.

As far as I know, the common arrangements are 8 pin, 9 pin (JST) and dedicated replacement loco circuit boards, complete with decoder.

[Ron Ron Ron]

BlueRail Trains have released their latest video, demonstrating the update process and recent improvements to the app and loco control.

 

 

[Glorious NSE]

21pin decoders are almost unheard of in the US.

In fact they were non-standard (NMRA) for quite a while, until finally adopted for legacy reasons only a few years ago.

As far as I know, the common arrangements are 8 pin, 9 pin (JST) and dedicated replacement loco circuit boards, complete with decoder.

At least one HO manufacturer (Bowser) has started using them relatively recently as they allow for more effects with the sound version of the product - but there was a predictable "what the blazes is this thing?" response from the local consumers!

 

An 8 pin socket is quite understandable given the US market is their home one.

[Nile_Griffith]

Not

 

BlueRail Trains have released their latest video, demonstrating the update process and recent improvements to the app and loco control.

 

 

 

Not sure about Dave Rees's assertion that the only person who will hear anything above 16 Khz is your Labrador dog. I'm fairly certain that most of the RMWeb membership under the age of thirty five with average hearing should able to hear 16 Khz even in my more progressive years I can still hear musical notes up to that frequency (but that might be more down to training and taking care of my ears as much as anything else).

 

However a nice concise demonstration of the ability to update the control boards loco and no mysterious CV tables and such like in sight.

[Ron Ron Ron]

BlueRail trains news from 23rd March...

 

 

 

"BlueRail Trains is now shipping their first bluetooth plugin boards.

 

The boards (shipping in US/Canada for $75 US) work with track or battery power, and are also available with either pre-attached battery leads ($85) or as a full Dead Rail kit ($167).

The Dead Rail kit includes a board, lithium protected battery, magnetic reed switch, a 9/8 pin wire harness, and all connections (assembled).

The harness included in the kit is a 9 pin NMRA JST plug to 8 pin NMRA plug.

For a DCC-ready train it is completely plug and play. 

 

 

Compatible with Bachmann E-Z app, BlueRail will also have their own free iOS (~ May 1) and Android control apps (~ May 7) available as free downloads.

The BlueRail app offers configuration options not available in Bachmann E-Z App and targets DIY users.

The Android app will be considered "beta" for the first 30-days (meaning functional but still under development).

 

BlueRail is initially only making the board available through a sign-up list on the contact page of the BlueRail website.

Through the contact page you can enter your loco preferences and reserve a board.

Orders are being fulfilled in the order people signed up.

You will eventually receive an email link with an opportunity to purchase a board.

Every board is updated with the latest firmware and completely tested prior to shipping.

See the website for details on board specs.

 

BlueRail hopes to attract enough international sign-ups to justify emissions certification for international sales.

Non US/Canada individuals are encouraged to sign up."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited April 24, 2016 by Ron Ron Ron

[Ron Ron Ron]

Latest video.

Adjusting loco lighting and other layout effects.

 

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

First glimpse of the BlueRail trains app for Android devices, which is currently in development.

 

 

[Nile_Griffith]

Yes it's all getting a bit closer (and looking forward to getting my hands on them). I think the App will be of appeal to those still feeling that the current plethora of DCC throttles and kit is still a bit mystifying. Additionally the new apps may well enthuse other App developers to come up with their own control interpretations which will certainly be welcome as this is where the real potential lies.

[Ron Ron Ron]

BlueRail Trains' own iOS app is now available to download from the Apple iTunes/app store, as an alternative to the Bachmann E-Z App.

 

Unfortunately unlike the Bachmann version, you can't play with this app unless there are BlueRail Trains fitted locos connected.

 

Some details about the BlueRail app are available on the BlueRail Trains web site.....

 

http://bluerailtrains.com/userguide/

 

 

.

[glennofootscray]

I have downloaded the app and I am waiting for Bluerail to obtain clearance to proceed in diseminating these chips outside the North American market. I am on their mailing list and look forward to sample their handiwork.

 

I anticipate any further sound options may include electric traction.

 

Regards Glenn from Melbourne, Australia

[Pandora]

a step in the evolutionary direction,  it is too expensive to generate sound in the locomotive model by a dedicated hardware  sound DCC chip, ( cost £100 for every loco ) far better to generate the sound externally , eg, a laptop and simply transmit to a low cost bluetooth receiver / amplifier in the model.  expect to see higher quality of sounds, CD quality, and a big drop in cost of equipping a large fleet to sound

[rgmichel]

a step in the evolutionary direction,  it is too expensive to generate sound in the locomotive model by a dedicated hardware  sound DCC chip, ( cost £100 for every loco ) far better to generate the sound externally , eg, a laptop and simply transmit to a low cost bluetooth receiver / amplifier in the model.  expect to see higher quality of sounds, CD quality, and a big drop in cost of equipping a large fleet to sound

I remember when I first started buying dcc sound locos I considered exactly what you suggest, which at that time was already available from Soundtraxx.  The reason I gave up on it derived from the lack of UK loco sounds in their library.   The situation still exists.  I have come to appreciate on board dcc sound since then, but it would be nice to have a subwoofer under the layout to back up the loco sounds.  The soundtraxx approach never caught on in the UK, and I can only explain that by its additional complexity over on-board sound, as well as the lack of available UK sounds.  Bluetooth advances the goals of authentic sound only because it is being made compatible with iOS and Android systems, and so it is likely to be a bit more open platform, which will let in more developers to improve things.

[Pandora]

Another benefit is the Bluetooth system is that by separating the combined power and control signals ,   the expensive ( for 7mm )  DCC booster is obsolete, being replaced by  permanent 12 V DC supply to the running rails,  or a 12Volt car battery to the running rails.  

[Nigelcliffe]

Another benefit is the Bluetooth system is that by separating the combined power and control signals ,   the expensive ( for 7mm )  DCC booster is obsolete, being replaced by  permanent 12 V DC supply to the running rails,  or a 12Volt car battery to the running rails.

If using a car battery, please use some sort of fuse or circuit breaker to limit the current on the battery output !   Car batteries can deliver hundreds of amps, which is good for welding, cutting through rails and burning out all the layout wiring.

 

 

- Nigel

[Pandora]

I believe it time for a major invasive re-think into DCC,  for example we still use the 12V DC "analogue" motor to power our models, despite the intervening DCC digital hardware between the  operators controller and the driving wheels.

A motor which is operating very poorly at slow speeds due to running close to its stall current power setting.

 

Perhaps we may eventually develop the technology to replace the 12v motor with  digital stepper motors which offer superb slow speed control and high torque, observe the performance of devices such as inkjet printers DVD drives 3D printers,  to name  just 3 they  all use stepper motors for precise positioning and speed control of the working parts

Edited May 29, 2016 by Pandora

[rgmichel]

........ replace the 12v motor with  digital stepper motors which offer superb slow speed control and high torque, observe the performance of devices such as inkjet printers DVD drives 3D printers,  to name  just 3 they  all use stepper motors for precise positioning and speed control of the working parts

Any electrical engineers in the house?  I am not sure that there is a specific advantage of a stepper motor that might make it a "killer app" for a model locomotive.  A stepper motor gives high accuracy and precision in positioning, but do we need that?  I wonder how they cost out for model locomotives?  Would the motor draw less power....?  That might be an advantage.  More low speed torque might be useful for starting long trains.  Witness how Hornby's live steam locomotives can pull long trains.  Do we need that?  Lots of questions...

[davetheroad]

I believe it time for a major invasive re-think into DCC,  for example we still use the 12V DC "analogue" motor to power our models, despite the intervening DCC digital hardware between the  operators controller and the driving wheels.

A motor which is operating very poorly at slow speeds due to running close to its stall current power setting.

 

Perhaps we may eventually develop the technology to replace the 12v motor with  digital stepper motors which offer superb slow speed control and high torque, observe the performance of devices such as inkjet printers DVD drives 3D printers,  to name  just 3 they  all use stepper motors for precise positioning and speed control of the working parts

 

Isn't this going off topic? Not that BlueRail is on topic as far as DCC concerned as it has nothing to do with DCC and would be better located in the radio control special interest section!.

[davetheroad]

Any electrical engineers in the house?  I am not sure that there is a specific advantage of a stepper motor that might make it a "killer app" for a model locomotive.  A stepper motor gives high accuracy and precision in positioning, but do we need that?  I wonder how they cost out for model locomotives?  Would the motor draw less power....?  That might be an advantage.  More low speed torque might be useful for starting long trains.  Witness how Hornby's live steam locomotives can pull long trains.  Do we need that?  Lots of questions...

 

It seems to me that any substitute type of motor has to be a plug and play replacement for the traditional DC motor, and run on traditional 12V DC. that is not going to happen anytime soon as there is no commercial advantage in introducing such a motor. The hobby has the 12V DC base specification and that is how it will remain for the foreseeable future?

[Pandora]

1 ) A key point is that by using DCC technology platform  we have digitized everything bar the final link, and that final link is the 12V DC motor in the locomotive.

 

2)  Replacing the "analogue" 12V DC motor with a "digital" stepper motor offers very fine control  of operation especially at very low rotational speeds with high torque,  a stepper motor offers this  level of quality of control at lower cost than an equivalent 12 V DC motor.

 

3)  A locomotive with a stepper motor would still be compatible with existing DCC technology, if  a stepper drive DCC decoder were designed and manufactured, no need to scrap existing DCC technology.

 

My first choice of locomotive for stepper motor drive would be a shunting locomotive

 

from wikipedia: Advantages & disadvantages of stepper motors

 

Advantages

• Low cost for control achieved
• High torque at startup and low speeds
• Ruggedness
• Simplicity of construction
• Can operate in an open loop control system
• Low maintenance
• Less likely to stall or slip
• Will work in any environment
• Can be used in robotics in a wide scale.
• High reliability
• The rotation angle of the motor is proportional to the input pulse.
• The motor has full torque at standstill (if the windings are energized)
• Precise positioning and repeatability of movement since good stepper motors have an accuracy of 3 – 5% of a step and this error is non-cumulative from one step to the next.
• Excellent response to starting/stopping/reversing.
• Very reliable since there are no contact brushes in the motor. Therefore the life of the motor is simply dependant on the life of the bearing.
• The motors response to digital input pulses provides open-loop control, making the motor simpler and less costly to control.
• It is possible to achieve very low-speed synchronous rotation with a load that is directly coupled to the shaft.
• A wide range of rotational speeds can be realized as the speed is proportional to the frequency of the input pulses.

Disadvantages

• Require a dedicated control circuit
• Use more current than D.C. motors
• Torque reduces at higher speeds
• Resonances can occur if not properly controlled.
• Not easy to operate at extremely high speeds.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Pandora