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BlueRail Trains - Bluetooth Locomotive Control


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Hold on folks, this is being posted in the radio control forum as well. The moderators need to decide which is the best forum for it, probably when we find out if it is a DCC system or a radio digital command control system that is not backwards compatible with existing DCC stuff

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2 minutes ago, wasdavetheroad said:

.....The moderators need to decide which is the best forum for it, probably when we find out if it is a DCC system or a radio digital command control system that is not backwards compatible with existing DCC stuff

 

Where does it belong?

It depends what you mean by radio control.

Really, it belongs in a section that isn't yet provided for, namely one that covers non-DCC digital command control systems.

Some of these alternatives are not radio based and others use power through the rails and control signals via some variety of radio communication.

 

They have stated compatibility with DCC.

That would most likely mean the Bluetooth based system locos will work on a DCC layout and respond to DCC commands.

It remains to be seen if add-on modules will be produced, to allow existing DCC decoders to work with the new Bluetooth based system.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, wasdavetheroad said:

It will be months before we find out the true nature of the beast. Personally I don't care if it is DCC as long as I don't have to wire the track. and it is legal in the UK

 

It will be months, but we have known for 17 months that DCC compatibility and a choice of power source (DC, DCC or battery) will be catered for.

....and the last time I looked, Bluetooth was legal in the UK.

 

 

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Definition of radio control? Where the commands are transmitted from the 'control device' to the 'receiving device'  (for example loco or accessory) using radio frequencies.

 

A radio throttle connected to a command station using the rails to deliver the commands would not count but using a radio throttle connected to a command station that delivered the commands using radio would be radio control. for example using the App on a smart device as a command station and a Bluetooth connected throttle for tactile control

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This thread was expressly  started for all issues related to Bluetooth control of locomotives, and it is absolutely the right place to discuss such things, even if there are now relationships with DCC and DCC sound.  Of course, its possible to discuss all these things in many different threads, and it does not matter one whit where such discussions take place.   This  thread has been extant since the very start of Bluetooth control of locomotives by this manufacturer in 2015, and there seems to be no reason to abandon it.  Furthermore, the DCC implications were  recognized right at the beginning of the thread.

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Why are we getting all 'hot under the collar' about where a thread with 25 pages with 600+ responses and ~30,000 views has been put? I would suggest that as it has managed to generate this much interest it is probably placed perfectly correctly :)

 

The other thread in Radio Control which is mentioned is a new thread with one response - suggests that to me that the other thread shouldn't have been started and should be deleted leaving this as the master.

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3 hours ago, wasdavetheroad said:

Ron, Radio control because that is what it is, simple really!

 

Or did the moderators intend that Radio control should only about stuff that had nothing to do with DCC. If so they should have made it clear

 

So your argument would move discussions on WiFi devices to the Radio Forum also - after all they use radio wave at the same frequency to communicate between the command station and the handset, perhaps we should move anything that uses the electromagnetic spectrum into Radio because the are all the same?

 

As I said earlier ~30000 views suggests that this thread is in exactly the correct place for this who want to discuss the subject - you are of course free to start your own thread wherever you want and come back to this thread to see what is being discussed on the subject of Bluetooth control.

 

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The radio control forum did not exist when this thread was started.

 

No, you could argue DCC systems with radio throttles connected to base stations which transmit signals via the rails are not radio control, they are hybrids.

 

DCCWiki says Radio Control (R/C) means using a non-DCC standard radio controller to talk directly to a train, not using a command station. That is, using a proprietary receiver/transmitter by a specific company.

 

As I wrote elsewhere, time will give us the answer

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20 minutes ago, wasdavetheroad said:

The radio control forum did not exist when this thread was started.

 

...

 

Oh, but it did exist - long time before this thread was started :)

 

untitled4bkvr.png

 

 

It was actually started in May 2013 - almost 2 years before this thread started ;)

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BlueRail Trains have said that DCC compatibility is one of the core additions to the new mk2 "boards" (meaning decoders in BlueRail speak).

 

The argument about which section in which to post this topic is skewed by missing an important point.

The "Radio Control" section is itself a misnomer.

IMHO it should be replaced by a more suitable, or suitable set, of pigeonhole(s).

 

Anyway, until more information is released, is anyone wondering who the manufacturing partner is?

BlueRail Trains say they won't be selling the new boards themselves, which suggests the manufacturer is a much larger player, with an established retail presence in the model railway market.

Is it a RTR brand, or a DCC manufacturer?

 There was a low key rumour last year, that one of the US DCC brands was going to be replacing their long standing main product line, with a brand new and more modern system.

 

Could it be Bachmann Trains (USA), Atlas, Athearn, NCE, Digitrax, Model Recifier Corp., ...maybe even Hornby?????

 

 

Ron

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Ron,

 

My bet would actually be on ROCO/Fleischmann to be the potential suitors for the business as it lines up very well with their market direction and innovative offerings - after all the have video locos that you can drive as if you are actually in the cab, they kickstarted the whole Wi-Fi market with the Z21and I would see this is a logical addition to their line up. 

 

The other players haven't shown the slightest inclination to innovate, why would move to the bleeding edge when they aren't even on the leading edge today with the majority of their products being current technology and many jost being legacy technology.

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My initial inclination was that it’s a US RTR manufacturer, possible Bachmann again?-

 

However, despite the cosy position that the US DCC system manufacturers (Digitrax, MRC, NCE & CVP) enjoy in their home market and their recent history of lack of innovation, I can’t help wondering if a least one of them has been prompted to sit up and take notice of how far ahead their European competitors are and is looking at making some sort of big jump forward.

 

Personally, I can’t see it being Roco/Fleischmann. They are too invested in their relatively new and successful Z21 line to switch to a systemless system.

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I presume that rival manufacturers will know what is going on and will be planning their reaction to the final announcement

 

Meanwhile what do we know of the good and bad points of BlueRail Trains original board. For me it had enormous potential but serious shortcomings

 

Maybe the new boards will be essentially handling communications, user interface and power management or could they also have complete 'decoder' options

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My understanding is that this Bluetooth approach to control of trains will be compatible with DCC-installed locomotives with or without sound, so that our existing base of dcc locomotives would be compatible with Bluerail's offerings.  How it will be marketed is a big secret right now.  Certainly, I would not be interested in this approach if it would obsolete all my dcc stuff.

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  • 3 months later...

Some long awaited news from BlueRail Trains.

 

They have been working on two product developments, with two different partners.

All of the new products will work together, using the same app and are heavily biased towards DCC interoperability.

 

One partner has been announced as Tam Valley Depot ( the makers of the Frog Juicer range, DRS-1 dead rail system and other electronic gizmos).

The other partner hasn’t been named yet, but is said to be an experienced DCC sound decoder manufacturer.

 

The first “board” developed with Tam Valley Depot, is aimed at larger scale models, With a smaller H0 version coming next.

These will allow any choice of DCC decoder to be used with the BlueRail Trains app.

 

The second project involves a range of DCC Sound decoders, with Bluetooth modules already onboard.

These will work with full functionality on a DCC layout, or via Bluetooth control on a DC, AC or DCC powered layout and when powered by batteries and are said to be fully bi-directional.

Sounds and 300 adjustable parameters can be controlled in real time via the BlueRail Bluetooth link, without the need to understand CV’s.

 

It appears that the prospect of full DCC operation of trains fitted with regular DCC decoders, without having a DCC command station, is to be realised by these developments.

 

 



Hello from BlueRail,

 

Here is a development update from BlueRail Trains. I’m pleased to inform you that BlueRail has been involved in 2 separate but related co-development projects. Both projects are in full swing (one of which I can give you some detail on). The first is a board we have been developing in cooperation with Tam Valley Depot. This board allows you to connect the DCC decoder of your choice to control your loco and edit CVs with your smartphone using the BlueRail app. The board I have been using is a 6 amp board measuring 1.25” x 2.75”.  There is also a lower amperage HO version that is .75” x 1.5”. The boards can be powered with the power source of your choice: AC, DC, DCC, and Battery. These boards are nearing availability.  Pricing and spec sheets will be made available soon, as well as a pre-order sign-up form.  Boards will be made available based on sign-up priority as they roll off the assembly line.  Further information on the product will be made available through this email group and on the BlueRailTrains.com website (when updated). A link will be sent out to this mailing group when a sign-up sheet is ready. We will have information available for retailers sometime soon. DCC control will be added first to the BlueRail App (before porting to Android). Here is an article that describes why we develop on iOS first:  http://bluerailtrains.com/2017/02/12/why-do-developers-release-ios-versions-before-android/

If you are attending NMRA 2019 in Salt Lake City, Pete Steinmetz of DeadRail installs will have a working board on hand that you can check out.  Pete is hosting a weathering clinic on Tuesday night at 6:30pm (and a DeadRail clinic on Thursday night at 6:30). He will be available after the Tuesday weathering clinic to show the board and answer questions. The Thursday clinic will discuss Dead Rail, but there will be a large portion devoted to the new BlueRail Trains board.

 

The second board under co-development is an all-inclusive product in which the DCC sound decoder and bluetooth module are all built into a single board. The manufacturer has a terrific sound library and decades of experience making DCC sound decoders, so the boards will be available in a variety of sound variants and amperages. These boards are produced in volume, so they take a little longer to release. This will be an impressive product, but the manufacturer has asked we save revealing more until they make an announcement (the announcement will not be in Salt Lake City).

 

Both of these products are exciting. In testing the prototypes I have really enjoyed using both. They each have their strengths. They work well together side-by-side.

 

The Tam Valley product will be of particular interest to Large Scale users who require more than 4 amps, or anyone who has a specific DCC sound decoder that you would like to control and edit from a smartphone.  Its ability to read/write CVs, battery support, and the opportunities it offers to O and S users (who will finally have train control options) is noteworthy. Not to mention the fact that this product will be available this summer.  Tam Valley is an award winning San Diego based company that has made Model Railroad control products for many years. They have established a great reputation of producing high-quality dependable train, DCC, and layout control electronics.

 

The second product is exciting because it’s the first high end DCC sound decoder with integrated bluetooth control. All bi-directional communication occurs instantaneously. There is no need to understand CVs: you can change sounds and control over 300 parameters in real-time using a logically organized, easy-to-use interface. For added flexibility, you will also be able to control the train through the rails on your favorite DCC layout (in addition to using DC or battery for power). The integrated bluetooth module is 6mmx9mm, giving the board a very small form factor.

 

What’s exciting about both products is we are partnering with companies that are experts in their fields, which allows them to focus on making great train control hardware and sounds (as they always have), and allows BlueRail to concentrate our energy on making great control interfaces (and the firmware that supports it).  You get all the features BlueRail develops (like simple speed-matching/consisting and over-the-air wireless firmware updates), and the peace of mind of using a control system embraced by multiple manufacturers (BlueRail, Tam Valley, Bachmann and our other partner). Both products in development now (and products we have developed in the past) are all controlled by the same app. They are completely compatible with one another, and can be mixed and matched (for control purposes).

 

2019 is turning out to be the year for train control. BlueRail wants to thank all our friends and supporters for helping make that happen. If you would like to stop receiving these emails, use the unsubscribe link below.

 

 

David Rees

BlueRail Trains

 

 

 

 

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Indeed Ron, The second projected Bluetooth integrated boards will make any arguments about DCC/radio control irrelevant because it can be both. If the manufacturer has real business clout it may prompt other decoder manufacturers to produce their own version, hopefully using the same Bluetooth protocols.

 

Mention of a high end product may be a problem as it would mean a high price. Another problem might be the mention of HO scale, as far as I know US HO scale is smaller than UK 00 but the models are wider because of the different loading gauge. In other words, hope the boards will be small enough.

 

One of the good features of the original bluerail board was its ability to seamlessly shift between track and battery power when running. combined with an auto charging feature this could considerably reduce the complexity of  DCC wiring.

 

I wonder who that high end sound decoder manufacturer is?

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  • 2 months later...

A first glimpse of the Tam Valley Depot version of the new mk2 BlueRail Trains boards.

 

This is the large scale board for S, 0 and larger scales.

A smaller H0/00 sized board will follow.

 

**** Note: this is the add-on board to convert existing DCC fitted locos to Bluetooth control.

The fully integrated, Bluetooth on-board sound decoders (from unnamed sound decoder manufacturer X ?) have yet to be revealed.

 

 

 

 

 

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A bit more....

 

Now being marketed as  BlueRailDCC

 

Quote

BlueRail Trains, Tam Valley Depot, and Dead Rail Installs have joined forces to develop, market, and support the next generation of BlueRail products.

 


The original BlueRail product permitted the control of model trains from smart phones. 

BlueRailDCC extends this to control trains via any NMRA standard DCC decoder.

This permits the onboard sound of your choice, easy consisting of multiple locomotives, and common sense programming of the decoders via the Android phone, iPhone, or compatible tablet.

 
BlueRail Trains is responsible for overall design, firmware, and smart phone apps.

Tam Valley Depot designs and manufactures the hardware.

Dead Rail Installs will market BlueRailDCC, fulfill individual orders, and set up a dealer network.

Support is via a “Groups.io” list called BlueRailDCC.

Experts from the three companies will monitor the list to answer questions and participate in discussions.

 
The boards come in two sizes: the smaller one (0.57” x 1.5”) is suitable for HO scale can handle two amps of current (1.5 continuous).

The larger board (1.25” x 2.75”) handles five amps (three amps continuous).

Boards can be powered with the power source of your choice: AC, DC, DCC, or battery.

 
The two boards are identical in function.

A version of the boards will also be available with an external antenna (for added range).

 
These boards are controlled by the free BlueRail Trains app.

The app update will feature BlueRail’s solid easy-to-use interface, wireless firmware updates, CV editing, and compatibility with all BlueRail products (developed previously and currently in development).

BlueRail develops in iOS, and then ports to Android (so iOS control will be available first).

More info on this development process is available in the “Articles” section of the BlueRail website. 

 
MSRP Pricing is as follows:
5 amp board: $140
5 amp w/ antenna support: $150
2 amp board: $95
2 amp w/ antenna support: $105

Actual price will be set by retailers.

 
Prototypes of the boards, on-board firmware, and the smart phone app are currently under test.

As soon as the bugs have been worked out production will begin and the product will be available.

We expect this to occur in the next few months.

Progress will be announced on the three companies’ web sites and the BlueRailDCC group.

 

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Edited by Ron Ron Ron
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