Interest in 5 inch gauge

[corneliuslundie]

In the Model Railway Journal no 236 thread there is currently a discussion of 5 inch gauge, as a result of an article appearing in this issue by Doug Hewson.

 

Among the discussion points ts is whether this is model railways or model engineering.

 

How many people on here are actually modelling in this gauge? 

 

Jonathan David

[PGC]

I'm not modelling 5" gauge, although having seen the display the Warley show last November, if I had the room I would seriously consider the opportunity.

 

Is it model railways or model engineering? Personally, I care not, I just loved the Western with smoke units, sound that was sampled from a real Western, so, unsurprisingly, sounded just like the real thing! etc. and would love the opportunity to do something similar if the opportunity arises.

 

Phil

[skipepsi]

I would suggest that some of the great work done in smaller gauges like 2mmFS is model engineering as a part of modelingl railways.

[Talltim]

I'll posit the thought that building anything working in any scale is model engineering, where the MRJ examples differ from most large scale stuff is that it is also railway modelling. Most people who built in that sort of scale leave thing pristine (apart from the natural weathering caused by running live steam) Great engineering, but not much art.

 

I think you are going to need a bigger garden...

Edited January 30, 2015 by Talltim

[PhilH]

I have an 80% complete 5" gauge IoW O2 lurking in the workshop....80% complete since 1986 when I went over to the dark side and started playing with 12"/ft model locomotives.

 

I have also recently parted with a 5" Merchant Navy project that the previous owner had CADed out, laser cut all the bits to be tab and slot construction, professionally built boiler, in fact almost a very high quality kit. However I felt I couldn't devote the necessary time to it, so it had to go, although thanks to this I was able to acquire a very nice complete 1 1/2" scale Allchin traction engine, which is great fun to play with.

 

I will finish the O2 at some stage, then get rid of the big lathe and mill. Less junk to get rid of when the day comes and my name's on the ticket....

[Spitfire2865]

I would love to try my hand at 5" gauge, but I have none of the neccesary skills, tools, materials, knowledge, or time.

I actually considered just building a wagon for display purposes but buying wheels, castings, bits I couldnt hope to produce, would cost me far more than I would get enjoyment outof.

Id say in the larger scales, its model engineering but if applied right, its railway modeling. A discerning difference could be seen as what its pulling. Scale stock or people sized seats.

Though, can anyone explain why some people dont use prototypical couplings in larger scales? If you go so far as to build a working steam engine, why not put some 3 links on it?

[Talltim]

Though, can anyone explain why some people dont use prototypical couplings in larger scales? If you go so far as to build a working steam engine, why not put some 3 links on it?

Possibly for safety reasons? If you are going to use it for pulling people, you may need something better. Although the loco would be to scale with the scale couplings, the passenger stock is often far wider , with a different centre of gravity to scale coaches.

Although, unless its a very early loco, it would probably be screw couplings

Edited January 30, 2015 by Talltim

[Spitfire2865]

Possibly for safety reasons? If you are going to use it for pulling people, you may need something better. Although the loco would be to scale with the scale couplings, the passenger stock is often far wider , with a different centre of gravity to scale coaches.

Although, unless its a very early loco, it would probably be screw couplings

Ive seen videos of people riding scale coaches. And yes screw couplings, 3 links, i didnt want to say couplings again in the same sentence.

And thats what I said with the differences. If its a wagon designed to seat a person, its engineering, but if its a scale coach for riding, its modeling.

[brianthesnail96]

 If its a wagon designed to seat a person, its engineering, but if its a scale coach for riding, its modeling.

 

Just substitute "the great hand from the sky" of indoor modelling for "the great bum from the sky" I suppose!

 

Interesting question though- I'd view it as 5" etc is nearly always model engineering but sometimes railway modelling too- whereas the indoor scales are nearly always railway modelling but sometimes model engineering too.

 

The distinction gets really fuzzy around the 16mm/ft, Gauge 1 and Gauge 3 kind of region though!

 

Scale trains (as opposed to just locomotives) in 5" are quite something. I'd love to visit one of the Gilling Mainline rallies, running accurately modelled trains to a timetable on a fully signalled layout (including goods yard etc). Probably more accurate than a lot of indoor railways!

[PatB]

Bear in mind that 5" gauge is near enough eight times 00 gauge. Also bear in mind that there is now quite a range of easily built kits for battery electric, diesel outline narrow gauge locos on 5" gauge which will easily go round the equivalent of R1 curves or tighter. You can build quite an entertaining 0-16.5 layout in 6'x4' which would scale up to 48'x32'. Not an impossibly sized chunk of garden really. Radio control or an umbilical might be better than actually riding on board though.

 

So who's for a really large scale micro layout?

[08221]

We have a 5" gauge garden railway and I consider it to be a combination of model engineering (building the infrastructure, rolling stock, etc.) and railway modelling (detailling locoss, etc).

 

If you take your time and around there are some incredible bargains to be had, you can pick up decent locos for around £500 on occasions - you can get a lot for your money!

 

You dont need a a huge garden - we have a 120 foot circuit plus a branch line and we have 10 foot radius curves.

 

There is nothing quite having a ride round your garden on your own railway after a hard day at the office

[KevinWalsh]

I must get a copy of this issue and have a good mooch at the article. I model in "N", but I also have a 7&1/4" Class 12 (see my profile pic) and am fortunate enough to have 1 mile of layout to play with it on as well as other locos and rolling stock (links to playground in my signature).

 

As I spend a lot of my time at the miniature railway maintaining the coaching and departmental rolling stock I would say 5" and 7&1/4" qualify as miniature engineering rather than modelling, purely due to the size of tools used and the sheer size/weight of some of the locos/etc.

[Giggle pin]

Dougs gang are the GLR 5 groups and hang out in the vale of Pickering, they run scale 5" trains and of course engines. It is run in every way as a proper scale railway. Not my thing as i prefer pulling trains with people on. Still in 5" guage and 3 1/2".

 

I model 5" guage as the size is more suited to my 'fingers and thumbs' approach of clumsiness.

 

For my pleasure i travel to llandudno to be with the north Wales model engineering society. I find that quite a few members do all the scales, from 00 upwards. So long as its engines and trains Were all happy.

 

I had a 00 layout in the loft, but after i broke my foot getting in and out of the loft i thought i would call it a day on the smaller gauges, that was about 4 years ago.

 

My wife has just been on holiday in NZ for the last three week, so to kill my boredom i divided our double garage in two by putting a stud wall up, 2/3 for the wifes car and 1/3 for me.

 

Thats left a dilema, a 12' section of wall with about 18" of spare width behind my machine tools, mmmmm wonder what will fit in there?

 

Browsing this excellent web site i found a post by a Silver Sidelines who had posted pages out of an old magazine on flicker and there it was a small compact layout that can be added to at a later stage.

 

So that will fill the gap, but i had better finish the wall first.

 

Brian

[Giggle pin]

Spitfire solid couplings are the safest way in larger scales and possibly a requirement of the HSE.

 

Brian

[jimmynswgr]

A fascinating thread so far. I'm an N scale modeller from Australia, doing a lot in 1:160, building locos from scratch as well as having an interest in G gauge electric in the garden. Just got a book on building your own live steam locomotive (it's from 1976 and recommends using Asbestos as lagging!) from my grandfather in law and have been seriously thinking about having a go at 5 inch gauge by joining the local club as a track at home is not realistic to say the least.

 

Model engineering as others have already stated, I agree extends to what most of us on RMweb do in the "smaller scales". The thing that frightens me is that it could take a fair while to complete a live steam locomotive, or least that's the impression I get, compared to building in N scale. I suppose though it comes back to multiplying the scale up, it would have to be more like 16 times compared with 8 for OO as already mentioned.

 

I have considered doing live steam first in G gauge and then working up to 5 inch gauge once I get the basics of building a steam engine that actually employs the old order and not just an electric motor driving a gearbox with some rods going around for the ride. 

[Elvinley]

I have a tiny 5" gauge in my garden. It is mainly Maxitrak stuff. I did have a steam loco which I sadly Had to sell due to lack of engineering tools and know how. The railway has been going for about eight years and is probably one of the smallest ever made. My garden is tiny so it is just a small oval.

[Edge]

I'd tentatively offer the definition that Railway Modelling is where you create the railway and its setting, which can ina nd of itself include areas of Model engineering.

 

I'd define railway engineering as the construction of a railway in a setting that already exists, although this can include elements of railway modelling.

 

Please note that i differ between Railway Engineering and Model Engineering.

[PaulRhB]

Railway modelling can include Model engineering, model landscaping and operation in whatever scale. To me it's a model if it's a smaller scale than the operator and not there as a railway to generate a self sustaining business. There's no reason 5 or 7 ¼ inch can't be real railways either as industrial or passenger if their sole intent is as a working railway. Is the RH&DR a model or a real railway?, that's one of the ones that blurs the lines as they are intended to be like the full size but there's no doubt they offer a real service and depend on them to make money as opposed to pootling around for fun and carrying a few passengers and taking a bit for the ride to cover expenses.

[kipford]

I have just started building a 5" gauge L & Y Aspinall Class 27. This is a new area of interest to me and I have started an occasional thread on the forum documenting the journey it involves. I still model in EM gauge circa 2000 Third Rail electric and pre grouping LNWR. In my opinion all aspects of our hobby from 'T' gauge upwards involve some form of engineering, it just gets more involved the larger in scale you get. The smaller scales though tend to be railways, not just a collection of loco's on very unprototypical track.  Costs wise it is as expensive as you want to make it. Do not forget you will not get much change from £700 - £1000 for a professionally built 4mm loco, £10K for a scratch build '0' gauge. RTR 5" gauge loco's are around the £6000 - £10000 mark for steam, non steam as mentioned above can be much cheaper, My Aspinall is going to cost around £2500 for the materials, however that does not include the £3000 plus I have spent on a lathe, mill etc. If you are interested join your local model engineering society where you will get all the help and advice you need.

Edited February 4, 2018 by kipford

[Sturminster_Newton]

Time was when setting up a reasonably large 16mm/ft layout in the garden was about the same as putting in a circuit of 5" to putter about on.

 

Personally IF I were starting again, perish the thought, then 5" would get the thumbs up.

 

On a decent base about 7-12" above ground level and run as a scenic narrow gauge estate railway (1:6scale). Every inch higher makes weighty items easier to lift and keeps nature from interfering too much with operations.  A simple battery loco with radio control should be ample add a few open wagons and V tippers and the run from back door to compost bin becomes a small pleasure, as does the weeding and minor maintenance of the areas the line passes through.

 

I regularly cross a garden line in 7.25" gauge, built on an old SG alignment, and it always looks in need of endless maintenance to the ground level track to keep the straight's straight and curves uniform, hence the thoughts on elevating the line so that track maintenance is not a pain in the back and the loco does not need lifting from ground zero. Battery Electric are just a little lighter, more affordable and turn-key ready for operation.

 

Plus they will traverse 8' radius corners without too many complaints.

 

[ossygobbin]

i have SM32 and 5" in my garden

[peach james]

I'm slowly working on what will be a multi gauge railway around the estate property.  I have .74 Acres to work with, but only the top bit is going to get railway.  I'm thinking it will be 4 gauges (7.5/4.75/3.5/2.5), but are not 100% on that yet.  Both 5" and 7.25 have reasons to attract- however, to go to either of them will take me to 5 rails or no 2.5"

 

I have a pair of 3.5" gauge locos- one is with dad, awaiting its turn in a heavy general, the other one is sitting around at home.  I've also got 2" and a 4" traction engines, and a 2" steam wagon...

(No, I didn't build any of the above, but I do maintain them...)