Bachmann Blue Pullman

[Coppercap]

Does anyone know what further modifications would be needed to make this the 8-car WR version?

 

Too many to make it worthwhile unless you are really confident and fancy a lot of work. The Midland sets were all First Class, the Western sets had both First and Second Class. As a result, the most noticeable difference is that window spacing is different for the classes. The only common coaches are two Trailer Firsts per set - the Power Cars are even different classes so windows differ, and there are no Second Class coaches for the WR sets without modifying Firsts. Even the Kitchen coaches are different - WR ones are Trailers, whereas MR ones need one motor bogie (they look quite different to unpowered bogies).

If you want a WR set to look right it's a lot of work, and there's also the expense of another set to get just two extra (incorrect) coaches.

[Grasslands]

Have a look at RAILCAR.co.uk

 

The image attached is of the floor plan of an 8 car set, although it does indicate what carriage types are used in the set.

 

http://www.railcar.co.uk/images/blue-pullman/plan.jpg

 

http://www.railcar.co.uk/type/blue-pullman/type-02

You can also look at the carriage diagrams, on the side menu is the carriage types. Look at the WR labelled ones (e.g. WR motor car) and you'll be able to see what modifications you will need to make.

That's very useful, thank you!

 

Too many to make it worthwhile unless you are really confident and fancy a lot of work. The Midland sets were all First Class, the Western sets had both First and Second Class. As a result, the most noticeable difference is that window spacing is different for the classes. The only common coaches are two Trailer Firsts per set - the Power Cars are even different classes so windows differ, and there are no Second Class coaches for the WR sets without modifying Firsts. Even the Kitchen coaches are different - WR ones are Trailers, whereas MR ones need one motor bogie (they look quite different to unpowered bogies).

If you want a WR set to look right it's a lot of work, and there's also the expense of another set to get just two extra (incorrect) coaches.

I see, thanks for that. Well.... I certainly won't be taking out a 2k loan and than destroying x2 of these to make a WR version, that's for sure. hahahah.

[MG 7305]

I think you will find that the WR set will be a Midland set after transfer to the WR, see quote from Bachmann announcement below:

 

"We have revised our existing Pullman tooling to allow the later Western Region version of the 6-car former Blue Pullman unit to be modelled, as working on the Western Region of British Rail (1966 to 1973)."

 

My big concern is why Bachmann think I want to pay an extra circa £300 for a controller I do not want and is inferior to the DCC one I already have? The full retail price I was quoted by my local model shop was nudging £1000. If the logic is that the pack is to be a starter set then it is pretty left field, who would start modelling with such a costly and niche model that takes up so much track space? The only reason I can think of is that they are over stocked on controllers and that this is a plan to get rid of them. Maybe they think that WR modellers are both desperate and well heeled.

[No Decorum]

Well, the price of the Bachmann one must be getting close to what BR paid for theirs by now.

 

If you mean the original batch, I paid £280 for mine.

I got mine a penny cheaper. I remember dithering at the time and finally taking the plunge. I’m glad I did now. It’s a superb model but I won’t be getting another.

[John Tomlinson]

That is much cheaper than I expected (based on the current price of the reverse livery), but aligns with my APT-E purchase. 

 

Does anyone know what further modifications would be needed to make this the 8-car WR version? 

 

It might be of interest that the original batch seem to go for just over £300 on ebay at the moment. I picked up a pre-owned totally mint one for £306 just before Christmas. That is for the all blue version, the ones with yellow ends seem to go for somewhat less.

 

John.

[Grasslands]

I think you will find that the WR set will be a Midland set after transfer to the WR, see quote from Bachmann announcement below:

 

"We have revised our existing Pullman tooling to allow the later Western Region version of the 6-car former Blue Pullman unit to be modelled, as working on the Western Region of British Rail (1966 to 1973)."

 

My big concern is why Bachmann think I want to pay an extra circa £300 for a controller I do not want and is inferior to the DCC one I already have? The full retail price I was quoted by my local model shop was nudging £1000. If the logic is that the pack is to be a starter set then it is pretty left field, who would start modelling with such a costly and niche model that takes up so much track space? The only reason I can think of is that they are over stocked on controllers and that this is a plan to get rid of them. Maybe they think that WR modellers are both desperate and well heeled.

 

I completely agree, and even if they are overstocked on controllers, this isn't the best optioned railway set to get rid of them in  

[BobM]

I think you will find that the WR set will be a Midland set after transfer to the WR, see quote from Bachmann announcement below:

 

"We have revised our existing Pullman tooling to allow the later Western Region version of the 6-car former Blue Pullman unit to be modelled, as working on the Western Region of British Rail (1966 to 1973)."

 

My big concern is why Bachmann think I want to pay an extra circa £300 for a controller I do not want and is inferior to the DCC one I already have? The full retail price I was quoted by my local model shop was nudging £1000. If the logic is that the pack is to be a starter set then it is pretty left field, who would start modelling with such a costly and niche model that takes up so much track space? The only reason I can think of is that they are over stocked on controllers and that this is a plan to get rid of them. Maybe they think that WR modellers are both desperate and well heeled.

Hi Guys....

Would this (Bachmann model) represent the set (shewn in the delightfully atmospheric image below) that I recall travelling back down to Birmingham Snow Hill ex Paddington on 27th May 1965 (my 5th birthday by coincidence) when we returned to the UK from Australia....?

Copied from Warwickshirerailways.com with whom the copyright remains

 

British Railways' flagship Blue Pullman is seen arriving at Platform 5 with the 4 50pm Paddington to Wolverhampton service on 9th April 1962. To the right in Bay Platform 4 is British Railways Western D1002 'Western Explorer' on display at Western Rail Week a combined PR exercise and staff recruitment event. Initially, the Blue Pullmans were used on the London Midland Region and Western Region of British Rail, from London St. Pancras and London Paddington, respectively. The trains were withdrawn from the London Midland Region in 1967 following electrification of the Euston to Manchester line, and the Blue Pullmans were transferred to augment those in the Western Region.

The Blue Pullman was an advanced and luxurious design, befitting a Pullman train, although they did suffer some criticism, particularly over a persistent ride quality problem. They were in effect a precursor to the HST 125 sets that were to appear in 1976 and are still running on some parts of the railway network in the 21st century. After some production delays, the first Blue Pullman set appeared for trials in October 1959 which discovered that the ride quality was a problem, and modifications were made. These mitigated the problem, but the rough riding was never entirely removed. The reduction in wheel size from the trouble-free European design was later thought to be a possible cause. It was also noticed that the problem was worse on the 'rougher riding' London Midland Region lines, compared to the Western Region lines.

 

Bob

Edited January 12, 2018 by BobM

[big jim]

Dunno if this is something f any interest to anyone, london transport museum shop has the special edition BP for £479

 

https://www.ltmuseumshop.co.uk/models/trams-trains/midland-pullman-6-car-special-collectors-edition

[phil-b259]

Hi Guys....

Would this (Bachmann model) represent the set (shewn in the delightfully atmospheric image below) that I recall travelling back down to Birmingham Snow Hill ex Paddington on 27th May 1965 (my 5th birthday by coincidence) when we returned to the UK from Australia....?

gwrbsh1296.jpg

Copied from Warwickshirerailways.com with whom the copyright remains

 

British Railways' flagship Blue Pullman is seen arriving at Platform 5 with the 4 50pm Paddington to Wolverhampton service on 9th April 1962. To the right in Bay Platform 4 is British Railways Western D1002 'Western Explorer' on display at Western Rail Week a combined PR exercise and staff recruitment event. Initially, the Blue Pullmans were used on the London Midland Region and Western Region of British Rail, from London St. Pancras and London Paddington, respectively. The trains were withdrawn from the London Midland Region in 1967 following electrification of the Euston to Manchester line, and the Blue Pullmans were transferred to augment those in the Western Region.

The Blue Pullman was an advanced and luxurious design, befitting a Pullman train, although they did suffer some criticism, particularly over a persistent ride quality problem. They were in effect a precursor to the HST 125 sets that were to appear in 1976 and are still running on some parts of the railway network in the 21st century. After some production delays, the first Blue Pullman set appeared for trials in October 1959 which discovered that the ride quality was a problem, and modifications were made. These mitigated the problem, but the rough riding was never entirely removed. The reduction in wheel size from the trouble-free European design was later thought to be a possible cause. It was also noticed that the problem was worse on the 'rougher riding' London Midland Region lines, compared to the Western Region lines.

 

Bob

NO!

 

As has been mentioned before the Blue Pullmans built for Western Region services from Paddington to Bristol and Birmingham Snow Hill (which is where the picture was taken) were very different to the Midland Region varient (3 totally new vehicles need to be tooled up for a Western Region set - only ONE vehicle was common to both types).

 

Previous Bachmann releases were of the Midland Region variant - all that they have done is tweak the cab front of the driving car to fit multiple working jumpers. These were fitted when the 'Midland Pullman' from St Pancras to Manchester was withdrawn (in favour of a electrically hauled Pullman train from Euston) and the units were transferred to the Western Region as a single 6 car train was too short given the Western units were 8 cars.

 

Also please note that the Western Region service from Paddington to Snow Hill was also withdrawn at the same time as the Manchester service, for much the same reasons (the electrification of the WCML having been completed).

 

In short there is no way of recreating the scene in the photo with the Bachmann model unless you are prepared to buy 2 of the earlier releases and then spend ages cutting away at them to create additional windows,, swiping bogies around, etc.

[Colin_McLeod]

Or just run it as it is and not worry about all those little details. Discuss.

[phil-b259]

Or just run it as it is and not worry about all those little details. Discuss.

 

This is of course true, but most folk on here get quite vexed about details not being correct.

 

I have a 'Midland Pullman' - with the backstory that a set was preserved (either directly or via another operator) and now runs round the country doing luxury dining runs (like the Brighton Belle lot are planning)

[BobM]

Hi

Just as a matter of interest and to someone whom memories of the 'old Snow Hill' still brings moisture to the eyes everytime I think about it ......  ,,,,,,see it's happening again......take a look at these two images taken in almost the same spot 

the first the same as previous posting in 1962....

 

then last summer !

Oh dear....

Bob

Edited January 12, 2018 by BobM

[ian_penfold@btinternet.com]

Or just run it as it is and not worry about all those little details. Discuss.

 

Or create an 8 car set (and not worry about many of the little details) Not cheap but I now have an 8 car set.  Bought a second unit, swapped the bogies round so they are correct, swapped the Kitchen Cars round so they face the right way (not as easy as it sounds), removed a lot of the under floor gubbins under the kitchen car and put the bodies of the new parlour cars on the chassis of a pair of kitchen cars adjacent to the power cars.  Removed the words "Midland" from the Power cars,  The windows are wrong and some of the table lamps do not work but I can live with that as really wanted an 8 car set.  All that remains is to fix the yellow ends and maybe find some roller blinds for the side of the power cards..... have a full set of transfers for the coach numbers...... all looks and runs pretty fab.....   

[Ron Ron Ron]

I must admit that I find the decision to package it this way really odd.....

 

 

....My big concern is why Bachmann think I want to pay an extra circa £300 for a controller I do not want and is inferior to the DCC one I already have?

 

...........The only reason I can think of is that they are over stocked on controllers and that this is a plan to get rid of them.......

 

 

I completely agree, and even if they are overstocked on controllers, this isn't the best optioned railway set to get rid of them in

 

 

Since this was announced, I've had a sneaky suspicion that it might be a way of clearing out the stock of Dynamis Ultima systems.

I've no idea if they actually sell that many (our retailer chums may be able to help here), but they don't appear to be very popular and are now quite expensive with a r.r.p. of £299 (lowest discount price £230).

 

Add in the fact that ESU, who make this system, stopped producing their own branded version of it (ESU Navigator) about 2 years ago and have now introduced a far superior replacement (ESU Cab Control).

Only speculating, but could this be part of a clear out of stock, before the Dynamis is dropped from the range?

 

 

 

.

[phil-b259]

Hi

Just as a matter of interest and to someone whom memories of the 'old Snow Hill' still brings moisture to the eyes everytime I think about it ......  ,,,,,,see it's happening again......take a look at these two images taken in almost the same spot 

the first the same as previous posting in 1962....

gwrbsh1296.jpg

 

then last summer !

101_2269.JPG

Oh dear....

Bob

 

At least its still here as a station (yes I know it was closed for over 2 decades), and very busy these days too!

 

It could have ended up like Nottingham Victoria , i.e. built on with no provision for the railway to return....

[No Decorum]

It might be of interest that the original batch seem to go for just over £300 on ebay at the moment. I picked up a pre-owned totally mint one for £306 just before Christmas. That is for the all blue version, the ones with yellow ends seem to go for somewhat less.

 

John.

The blue ones sold very quickly when they appeared but the yellow-ended ones sold much more slowly. I suspect that the reason was that the yellow ends were an aesthetic disaster. They didn’t last long on the real things before they were modified into something less bad. I thought they looked horrible when compared to the blue but I dare say a lot of people were also put off because the real thing didn’t last long and the scheme might only have been applied to one end.

[Fantastic Mr Fox]

Just seen the Western Pullman on Hatton's site.  Never thought I'd live to see a price of over £800 for RTR......

I really do want the reverse livery Grey/Blue Pullman as it sits slap bang in my modelling era. Not my region but have decided it is coming across on a through footex or charter of some kind. Pictures look good, having the correctly cut buffer beam. So what have i done.......

 

Contacted my local modelshop today and have a deal on the table for one split from the train set for £750. Subject to any future price changes, and me being happy with the factory sounds.

 

I get TWO sound fitted locos and 4 high quality coaches for about £150 more than the original list price of the Pullman gift pack from last years catalogue. I'm happy with that for a two speaker model. No idea when it will be released, but if it is around a years time, i have to put aside £14.50 a week to afford it.

 

I assume he is making something out of me at that selling price, and he can sell the controller and track off as he wishes.

He has told that this is the only way that these units are likely to ever be available, no more than 1000 are being made so he believes, so i would assume these models will increase in value. My advice, for what it is worth, is get to your local store and have the conversation if you want one.

Edited January 13, 2018 by Fantastic Mr Fox

[Guest Q663389]

It might be of interest that the original batch seem to go for just over £300 on ebay at the moment. I picked up a pre-owned totally mint one for £306 just before Christmas. That is for the all blue version, the ones with yellow ends seem to go for somewhat less.

 

John.

PM me if you want one.

[robertcwp]

I have a Tri-ang WR 8-car set which was rebuilt for me by Brian Kirby using Southern Pride and Chris Leigh components. It's in the grey/blue livery. So I have decided to wait for Bachmann to do the 6-car with jumpers in nanking blue and white with yellow ends. They ran singly in yhat livery and carried it for longer than grey/blue as 6-car sets as it appears they were split up in the Autumn of 1971.

[robertcwp]

He has told that this is the only way that these units are likely to ever be available, no more than 1000 are being made so he believes, so i would assume these models will increase in value. My advice, for what it is worth, is get to your local store and have the conversation if you want one.

I reckon we will see another lot without the controller and track and possibly without sound. It just might take a few years.

[adb968008]

 

In between the music theres sound effects in here, around 3m20 onwards, Horn, Buzzer, engines idling... sounds like a HST. (Though video sound is very quiet)

 

A Quick dig around of Paxman engines of similar size (MAN) leads me towards the V100 as sounding very similar to that.

 

Edited January 14, 2018 by adb968008

[Coppercap]

 

In between the music theres sound effects in here, Horn, Buzzer, engines idling... sounds like a HST.

 

Unfortunately that's a shortened version of the film - the original is actually rather longer at 26 minutes long (and I don't think the full version is available on YouTube any more). I understand the film was shot silent and that the 'sound effects', while they may well be authentic, were added later, as was any dialogue.

[robertcwp]

I have a Tri-ang WR 8-car set which was rebuilt for me by Brian Kirby using Southern Pride and Chris Leigh components. It's in the grey/blue livery. So I have decided to wait for Bachmann to do the 6-car with jumpers in nanking blue and white with yellow ends. They ran singly in yhat livery and carried it for longer than grey/blue as 6-car sets as it appears they were split up in the Autumn of 1971.

This is the set: P1020765 small by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

Made for me back in 2005. 

[Andrew F]

Looks a very nice model Robert.I like modified older stuff. Is it powered by a Triang motor or something else?

[robertcwp]

Looks a very nice model Robert.I like modified older stuff. Is it powered by a Triang motor or something else?

A Tri-ang motor, rewheeled and with Chris Leigh cosmetic side frames.  All other bogies have Southern Pride super-bogie inner parts and cosmetic sideframes. The train runs very well and very freely with Romford wheels throughout except the motor bogie. With no gradients on my layout, it only needs one motor for the full 8-car set. It's not in the same league as a Bachmann Blue Pullman but it's the best WR 8-car set I'm ever likely to have.